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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Remove Attribute Implants and watch 0.0 catch on fire

First post
Author
Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#101 - 2013-01-17 14:48:44 UTC
Gerard Hareka wrote:
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
If loss-free combat was what people wanted, we'd have a lot more people on SiSi than we do.


Maybe people don't want loss free combat, they just don't want to lose their 120 million dollar implants when they feel like flying around a caracal until they lose it.

When I go looking for PvP, I'll know I'll be out there until I die or run out of missiles (this hasn't happened yet) so it's not a matter of risking implants, it's a matter of either going without or knowing that no matter what I am guaranteed to eat a 120m loss.

I choose to go without, because 120m will buy me a lot of caracals. (And I'm not alone, the stats I pulled show 75% of 0.0 capsules killed had no implants.)

So we're basically in a world now where the only people who get to use training implants are 0.1+ dwellers, and people with a lot of money. The second one doesn't bother me as much as the first one does.


Stop posting finnaly and stop flying with what you cant afford to lose.


It's almost like that's exactly what I do. I know reading is hard, spelling too but jesus it was right there in the third paragraph.
Gerard Hareka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2013-01-17 15:36:27 UTC
How i ended up quoting you ... have no idea :)

Maybe because you are a goon ....
Verlaine Glariant
FW Scuad
#103 - 2013-01-17 15:42:04 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
People who are too risk averse to risk a couple of +4s will just find some other excuse to be risk averse if you remove them.
This

www.amphysvena.org

Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#104 - 2013-01-17 17:48:28 UTC
Meanwhile Garmon is out in null pvping with a high grade snake set.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#105 - 2013-01-17 19:00:07 UTC
Tom Gerard wrote:
The most common reason people do not explore outside of high-security space is the price and risk posed by attribute implants.


I sincerely doubt this.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#106 - 2013-01-17 19:43:04 UTC

Look at it this way.... no matter what you are training, nor how you are skillmapped, two +5 implants earn 450 sp / hour... or 324,000 sp / month.

Let's imagine the standard player earns about 2000 sp/hour... or about 1.5m SP / month. At 600m per plex for that month, each SP costs 400 isk... less if you train faster than 2085 sp/hr... and much less if that time a plex offers has value beyond skilltraining (which it typically does)!

Now, playing in an implantless clone rather than+5's can then be perceived as an isk cost of 4.32 m isk per day. So, the dream of taking an 8m isk rifter into nullsec to PvP includes a 5m isk surcharge for every day you stay there PvP'ing... This is hardly a "Major" disincentive!

I understand you can't turn isk into lost time, but the reality is people avoid nullsec not because of their implants, but because they are too risk adverse to venture there and lose a ship. The same thing goes for lowsec, where losing your Pod is a much more rare occurrence, as you can spam warp while dying and get your pod out 98% of the time.
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#107 - 2013-01-17 19:56:26 UTC
Oh dear, am I not supposed to be flying around nullsec in a snake set? Damnit, noone told me and I've been doing it for years!
Darcel Black
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2013-01-17 20:02:49 UTC
Alternatively, make implants more expensive, but allow them to be removed?
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#109 - 2013-01-17 20:08:13 UTC
Quote:
I understand you can't turn isk into lost time, but the reality is people avoid nullsec not because of their implants, but because they are too risk adverse to venture there and lose a ship. The same thing goes for lowsec, where losing your Pod is a much more rare occurrence, as you can spam warp while dying and get your pod out 98% of the time.


It does, however, set a minimum ship cost that makes sense in nullsec. No one is going to be flying rifters in nullsec if their clone costs 20m and their implants cost 60m.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#110 - 2013-01-17 20:45:36 UTC
Tom Gerard wrote:
The most common reason people do not explore outside of high-security space is the price and risk posed by attribute implants.

Wrong. The most common reason is that their gameplay is too restricted there, and they cannot accomplish anything.

Most carebears that are real people (and not bots or nullsec alts) will take on a calculated risk for a calculated gain. The problem is that for most people, low/null represents unlimited risk and no gain, because they don't have the game knowledge to access it. Noone is giving them that knowledge either. Either by education, or by game mechanics, lowsec has to be easier to access. To be blunt, you are solving the wrong problem.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#111 - 2013-01-17 21:06:49 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
I understand you can't turn isk into lost time, but the reality is people avoid nullsec not because of their implants, but because they are too risk adverse to venture there and lose a ship. The same thing goes for lowsec, where losing your Pod is a much more rare occurrence, as you can spam warp while dying and get your pod out 98% of the time.


It does, however, set a minimum ship cost that makes sense in nullsec. No one is going to be flying rifters in nullsec if their clone costs 20m and their implants cost 60m.


This is NOT necessarily true... It's easier to move around nullsec in a rifter than say a BC or HAC... you often have a better chance of escape in a small ship...

Also, the 20m isk clone costs will hopefully be remedied in the future...

FYI: I fly frigates in nullsec with 2x +4's and often a 3% implant or two most of the time... and my clone costs 20m isk... I don't lose my pod very often, although I regularly lose ships. I guess it's how you fly, what you consider "acceptable" risks, and what makes isk-sense to you.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#112 - 2013-01-17 21:11:00 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
Tom Gerard wrote:
The most common reason people do not explore outside of high-security space is the price and risk posed by attribute implants.

Wrong. The most common reason is that their gameplay is too restricted there, and they cannot accomplish anything.

Most carebears that are real people (and not bots or nullsec alts) will take on a calculated risk for a calculated gain. The problem is that for most people, low/null represents unlimited risk and no gain, because they don't have the game knowledge to access it. Noone is giving them that knowledge either. Either by education, or by game mechanics, lowsec has to be easier to access. To be blunt, you are solving the wrong problem.

There's only so much you can do to help people who refuse to help themselves.
In the end you're responsible for your own happiness.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#113 - 2013-01-17 21:36:46 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Meanwhile Garmon is out in null pvping with a high grade snake set.


And who actually cares he goes out pvp with 3B implants or gives away 90billions to someone because he's drunk?

No one.


removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#114 - 2013-01-17 21:50:09 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ines Tegator wrote:
Tom Gerard wrote:
The most common reason people do not explore outside of high-security space is the price and risk posed by attribute implants.

Wrong. The most common reason is that their gameplay is too restricted there, and they cannot accomplish anything.

Most carebears that are real people (and not bots or nullsec alts) will take on a calculated risk for a calculated gain. The problem is that for most people, low/null represents unlimited risk and no gain, because they don't have the game knowledge to access it. Noone is giving them that knowledge either. Either by education, or by game mechanics, lowsec has to be easier to access. To be blunt, you are solving the wrong problem.

There's only so much you can do to help people who refuse to help themselves.
In the end you're responsible for your own happiness.

Yes, and that's why lowsec is so popular and everyone who tries EVE for the first time stays hereRoll

Its one thing to make people stand on their own two feet- it's another thing to make them do it while hacking at their shins with a blunt, rusty chainsaw.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#115 - 2013-01-18 03:32:06 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ines Tegator wrote:
Tom Gerard wrote:
The most common reason people do not explore outside of high-security space is the price and risk posed by attribute implants.

Wrong. The most common reason is that their gameplay is too restricted there, and they cannot accomplish anything.

Most carebears that are real people (and not bots or nullsec alts) will take on a calculated risk for a calculated gain. The problem is that for most people, low/null represents unlimited risk and no gain, because they don't have the game knowledge to access it. Noone is giving them that knowledge either. Either by education, or by game mechanics, lowsec has to be easier to access. To be blunt, you are solving the wrong problem.

There's only so much you can do to help people who refuse to help themselves.
In the end you're responsible for your own happiness.

Yes, and that's why lowsec is so popular and everyone who tries EVE for the first time stays hereRoll

Its one thing to make people stand on their own two feet- it's another thing to make them do it while hacking at their shins with a blunt, rusty chainsaw.

Well you mentioned lack of knowledge.
How exactly are we supposed to force knowledge on people who are unwilling to seek it out for themselves?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#116 - 2013-01-18 04:48:39 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Well you mentioned lack of knowledge.
How exactly are we supposed to force knowledge on people who are unwilling to seek it out for themselves?

My point was that the community actively discourages people from learning, and punishes them when it try it themselves.
psycho freak
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2013-01-18 08:10:07 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
psycho freak wrote:
Tbh implants are dirt cheap these days learning imps more so coz of fw

most losec guys fly around in pirate implants that cost billions do they stay docked?

Lowsec guys don't have to worry about bubbles, like, ever.



Nobody ever gets smart bombed ay? just look at pod kills on any pirate killbord

also it YOUR choice to go to null sec pointless bitching about implant afta you decided to live in null

to the guys saying they factor in the 10% value of loss due to implant lmfao its a game your gona die somtime enjoy it

my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k

nop cant find it

Eledinia
State War Academy
Caldari State
#118 - 2013-01-18 12:15:35 UTC
Risk is what makes Eve better than other MMO's, the fact you cant run back to your body as a ghost and pick everything up.
A fight is exciting as you are risking X amount just for the excitement.

As for the "value" of a character - to me the value of my character is how much fun i can have with it.
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#119 - 2013-01-18 14:25:43 UTC
I have a three stop program to fix this issue:

1) Open the door
2) Get on the floor
3) Everybody walk the dinosaur

Now with 100% less Troll.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#120 - 2013-01-18 18:14:51 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
psycho freak wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
psycho freak wrote:
Tbh implants are dirt cheap these days learning imps more so coz of fw

most losec guys fly around in pirate implants that cost billions do they stay docked?

Lowsec guys don't have to worry about bubbles, like, ever.



Nobody ever gets smart bombed ay? just look at pod kills on any pirate killbord

also it YOUR choice to go to null sec pointless bitching about implant afta you decided to live in null

to the guys saying they factor in the 10% value of loss due to implant lmfao its a game your gona die somtime enjoy it

I was bitching? Where?

Eledinia wrote:
Risk is what makes Eve better than other MMO's, the fact you cant run back to your body as a ghost and pick everything up.
A fight is exciting as you are risking X amount just for the excitement.

As for the "value" of a character - to me the value of my character is how much fun i can have with it.

As risk goes up, so should reward.
I don't get any more reward for flying in null with my +5 implants than I would get sitting in station with them, but I get significantly greater risk than someone who flies in low or high with them.

The simple solution to this would be to make it so I can unplug attribute implants without destroying them.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)