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Moon mining in a WH?

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BobDole DraggoFasst
Captain Simian and the Space Monkeys
#1 - 2013-01-17 13:40:44 UTC
I recently sent a petition asking why I can't mine moons in a wormhole, having heard that I am not allowed to do that. The response I got was "Post your suggestions on the forums, the devs read those." As I was asking why, not suggesting, I figured I would do both here. Reposted in it's entirety is the petition I sent, verbatim.

Quote:

I would like to know why I am unable to engage in horrific strip mining of moons in
Wormhole space. Outside the prying eyes of CONCORD and the general public, I
should be able to engage in any dasterdly deed that would make Captain Planet
soil himself. After taking the time to not only locate my own pocket of reality, but to
defend it, I should most definitly be allowed to destroy it any way I see fit. And if I
see fit to use giant lasers to destroy the moons, then bring on the lasers! I would like
an answer post haste, as my investors are furious at my not going foward with
operation Death Star.


When asking the EVE gods/esses a question, I always found it is best to make them giggle before they type a response. Always seemed to help with getting a response. Comments? Questions? Loud noises? Bears?
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#2 - 2013-01-17 17:44:41 UTC
My best guess would be that it would mean that wormhole dwellers would basically need fuel and thats it. Why would you bother with nullsec if you could claim a wormhole, with no sov costs and a limit on how much hardware can be brought to bear on you, via wormhole mass limits? Is it not enough that wormholes are the sole source of T3 production?

Realistically, it would make wormholes too attractive.

Friends
Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#3 - 2013-01-17 17:46:03 UTC
Wormholes are profitable enough as it is... adding Moon Goo would be overkill

In terms of a lore perspective... the Sleepers mined it all to build the big bad ships we blow up in WHs for ISK (I'm guessing but it seems likely)
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-01-17 17:50:09 UTC
Suddenly the CFC abandons all their tech moons and occupy every wormhole and tech 2 item prices drop like a rock. Null sec then officially becomes worthless.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-01-17 17:54:11 UTC
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
Wormholes are profitable enough as it is... adding Moon Goo would be overkill

In terms of a lore perspective... the Sleepers mined it all to build the big bad ships we blow up in WHs for ISK (I'm guessing but it seems likely)


Err... no. It's all about profits, but not wh dwellers' profits.

If Moon Goo supply increase, it'll cut into sov null monopoly supply bottleneck and thus, profits. Entrenched interests. Historically, CCP rigs the game to favor sov null alliances, ranging from moon goo distribution creating bottlenecks to outright giving out t2 bpos.Roll
Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#6 - 2013-01-17 17:58:22 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
Wormholes are profitable enough as it is... adding Moon Goo would be overkill

In terms of a lore perspective... the Sleepers mined it all to build the big bad ships we blow up in WHs for ISK (I'm guessing but it seems likely)


Err... no. It's all about profits, but not wh dwellers' profits.

If Moon Goo supply increase, it'll cut into sov null monopoly supply bottleneck and thus, profits. Entrenched interests. Historically, CCP rigs the game to favor sov null alliances, ranging from moon goo distribution creating bottlenecks to outright giving out t2 bpos.Roll


Soooo.... you want WHs to be the end all be all place for industry?
-All Ores
-Moon Goo
-T3 Production
-R&D
-Superb PI

Basically everything but boosters... seems overkill.. to me it would make more sense to distribute production between different types of space as a form of check and balances. My opinion tho ofc.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-01-17 18:03:26 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
Wormholes are profitable enough as it is... adding Moon Goo would be overkill

In terms of a lore perspective... the Sleepers mined it all to build the big bad ships we blow up in WHs for ISK (I'm guessing but it seems likely)


Err... no. It's all about profits, but not wh dwellers' profits.

If Moon Goo supply increase, it'll cut into sov null monopoly supply bottleneck and thus, profits. Entrenched interests. Historically, CCP rigs the game to favor sov null alliances, ranging from moon goo distribution creating bottlenecks to outright giving out t2 bpos.Roll


Soooo.... you want WHs to be the end all be all place for industry?
-All Ores
-Moon Goo
-T3 Production
-R&D
-Superb PI

Basically everything but boosters... seems overkill.. to me it would make more sense to distribute production between different types of space as a form of check and balances. My opinion tho ofc.


Ppl like to live and run all that out of POS? But yes. The greatest risk plus greatest amount of logi work should warrant the greatest rewards.

At the very list, wh should be more rewarding than rear end of the deep blueness that is sov null where you don't see hostiles for months on end, and everybody docks up when a scary neut alt logs into local.Roll
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#8 - 2013-01-17 18:17:07 UTC
So, Mr Tinhat, how long till your asking for Ice in WH's?

Friends
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2013-01-17 20:16:21 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
Wormholes are profitable enough as it is... adding Moon Goo would be overkill

In terms of a lore perspective... the Sleepers mined it all to build the big bad ships we blow up in WHs for ISK (I'm guessing but it seems likely)


Err... no. It's all about profits, but not wh dwellers' profits.

If Moon Goo supply increase, it'll cut into sov null monopoly supply bottleneck and thus, profits. Entrenched interests. Historically, CCP rigs the game to favor sov null alliances, ranging from moon goo distribution creating bottlenecks to outright giving out t2 bpos.Roll


Soooo.... you want WHs to be the end all be all place for industry?
-All Ores
-Moon Goo
-T3 Production
-R&D
-Superb PI

Basically everything but boosters... seems overkill.. to me it would make more sense to distribute production between different types of space as a form of check and balances. My opinion tho ofc.


Ppl like to live and run all that out of POS? But yes. The greatest risk plus greatest amount of logi work should warrant the greatest rewards.

At the very list, wh should be more rewarding than rear end of the deep blueness that is sov null where you don't see hostiles for months on end, and everybody docks up when a scary neut alt logs into local.Roll


Spoken like someone who's never actually been to nullsec.

Don't wormholes already offer the greatest rewards?
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-01-17 22:23:06 UTC
meh, maybe the 5's and 6's...

I left my corps C3 because it wasn't very profitable, and it was much more dangerous than simply running incursions for a lot more profit.
Aldrex
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-03-12 17:12:29 UTC
I would love for moon mining in WH. That being said I understand the null sec issue. My compromise? Look over the change list below:

Change List:

  • Allow moon mining in WH space.
  • Increase mining rates and/or availabiliity of more valuable resources in null (no ones mined here right? WH's were used by Sleepers)
  • Change available moons to have mineral types based on class (difficulty; more difficult the more value)
  • Limit minging rate of moons and/or number of moons in WH
  • Add the ability for corps to set automatic defenses (akin to POS towers) up in Sov areas (negating the inherent defensibility of WH's)
  • To offset the cries of stagnation of null sec due to defenses, create inter system WH's (after all they already have WH's popping up, why can't they connect to one another as well as random space?)
  • Up the scale of involvement pirate factions have in null sec. Their presence, stations, raids, and more escalation would seem appropriate considering they claim sov space and are pirate empires essentially. This would also increase officer spawns and subsequently isk from salvaging.



Just my 2 cents, but in addition to wanting minable moons, I've also been for corps being able to bring more order and control over sov space than they have as they see fit. Would love to see the option for a corp to truly rule sov space as an empire might, whether that be good or evil.
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#12 - 2013-03-12 17:23:37 UTC
Moon goo in w-space? No thanks. Wait for ring mining if you want more excitement in moon goo land.

Aldrex wrote:
To offset the cries of stagnation of null sec due to defenses, create inter system WH's (after all they already have WH's popping up, why can't they connect to one another as well as random space?)


K-space to k-space wormholes already exist. Not sure what more you want.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#13 - 2013-03-12 18:55:19 UTC
DJ P0N-3 wrote:
Moon goo in w-space? No thanks. Wait for ring mining if you want more excitement in moon goo land.

Aldrex wrote:
To offset the cries of stagnation of null sec due to defenses, create inter system WH's (after all they already have WH's popping up, why can't they connect to one another as well as random space?)


K-space to k-space wormholes already exist. Not sure what more you want.


I once ventured into a wormhole I'd scanned down in Gallente highsec. I emerged deep in Amarr highsec, about 30ish jumps from where I had been before.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#14 - 2013-03-12 19:04:44 UTC
Back when wormholes were introduced (long before I joined CCP) I had a dozen large deathstar towers and multiple probing characters ready to go with the intention of snagging some wormhole R64s in lower class wormholes that would be practically impossible for anyone to ever take from me.

Then it was announced that moon mining would not be allowed in wormholes and I was sad. However I freely admit that what I was trying to do would not have been balanced.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Tennessee Jack
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-03-12 20:07:28 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Back when wormholes were introduced (long before I joined CCP) I had a dozen large deathstar towers and multiple probing characters ready to go with the intention of snagging some wormhole R64s in lower class wormholes that would be practically impossible for anyone to ever take from me.

Then it was announced that moon mining would not be allowed in wormholes and I was sad. However I freely admit that what I was trying to do would not have been balanced.



I am sure you were not the only one thinking that. Though the system now, it is kind of silly. Cartels taken over, people renting out single systems for 4 to 10 billion a month so a guy can Mine the moons in the system (Sovereignty issue and the vast wreathes of Nullsec being unoccupied).

System is still inherently broken. I do think that Moon Mining in a wormhole would be interesting, just maybe not specifically the moon minerals itself. Dunno.
Kethry Avenger
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2013-03-12 23:02:20 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Back when wormholes were introduced (long before I joined CCP) I had a dozen large deathstar towers and multiple probing characters ready to go with the intention of snagging some wormhole R64s in lower class wormholes that would be practically impossible for anyone to ever take from me.

Then it was announced that moon mining would not be allowed in wormholes and I was sad. However I freely admit that what I was trying to do would not have been balanced.


Just shift moon mining from a passive POS activity to something done with ships or PI like for Dusties to mess with. Just limit the amount that can be mined in a 24 hour period with random resets of when the next supply comes in if you want the supply to be limited.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#17 - 2013-03-12 23:48:55 UTC
moon mineing in Wspace is a nono. Nullsec derps would try blob their way inside just to snag the moons and wonder why they cannot cyno in their cap fleet ;p

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-03-13 00:51:03 UTC
Why when people say moon mining, everyone assmes TECHNETIUM!?!?!?!?!

there ARE other moon minerals that are decently valuable that you cold put in wormholes, that you could then do reactions or what not with. wormholes dont need tech, but other moon-mins wouldnt hurt. (its not like they wold make moons super-valuable or anything, since the CPU/PG taken up by the moon miner would usually be better spent on other modules)
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-03-13 02:01:20 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Why when people say moon mining, everyone assmes TECHNETIUM!?!?!?!?!

there ARE other moon minerals that are decently valuable that you cold put in wormholes, that you could then do reactions or what not with. wormholes dont need tech, but other moon-mins wouldnt hurt. (its not like they wold make moons super-valuable or anything, since the CPU/PG taken up by the moon miner would usually be better spent on other modules)


Of course some of them would have to be Tech, only then will price be balanced.

Price of moon goo would balance by itself. What's worth the logistics of a large POS hauling through multiple holes will determine prices, not some artificial CCP sponsored monopoly.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-03-13 02:43:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
sabre906 wrote:


Of course some of them would have to be Tech, only then will price be balanced.

Price of moon goo would balance by itself. What's worth the logistics of a large POS hauling through multiple holes will determine prices, not some artificial CCP sponsored monopoly.


The prices wouldn't really balance, moon mining is so easy the prices would just drop.

Their isn't anything wrong in theory of having only a few limited sources of tech, I mean the same thing happens in the real world with oil and diamonds.


Although in the real world that does cause bullshit to so maybe having our video game be somewhat more utopia like wouldn't be that bad.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
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