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New NPC AI, how about no?

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Pesadel0
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#361 - 2013-01-16 20:08:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Pesadel0
Man really why make PVE missions be more like PVP? If a person is doing missions maybe , i mean maybe he wants to PVE ...Give players what we all asked before don't destroy the PVE environment with stupid changes.

PVE needs more missions ,more rewards lp store , missions that have a *gasp* story?I Think the changes you made at the 0.0 were dumb enough, anoms nerf, rats belt nerfs etc etc ...

Maybe create more content instead of making X harder by making all npcs behave like sleepers..
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#362 - 2013-01-16 22:02:28 UTC
CCP Ytterbium,

I'm not sure if you read my article or not, but the general idea is similar in creating missions that is closer to what the pvp experience is.

http://evenews24.com/2012/12/26/a-fresh-new-look-at-missions-and-how-aura-did-you-dirty/
Theron Urian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#363 - 2013-01-17 00:43:19 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
CCP Ytterbium,

I'm not sure if you read my article or not, but the general idea is similar in creating missions that is closer to what the pvp experience is.

http://evenews24.com/2012/12/26/a-fresh-new-look-at-missions-and-how-aura-did-you-dirty/


Good article. I like some ideas while I am a little iffy on others, but that is ok because any ideas to improve upon PvE are ultimately a good thing and will get the ball rolling in the right direction and get more ideas and conversations flowing.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#364 - 2013-01-17 00:54:19 UTC
Pesadel0 wrote:
Man really why make PVE missions be more like PVP? If a person is doing missions maybe , i mean maybe he wants to PVE ...Give players what we all asked before don't destroy the PVE environment with stupid changes.

PVE needs more missions ,more rewards lp store , missions that have a *gasp* story?I Think the changes you made at the 0.0 were dumb enough, anoms nerf, rats belt nerfs etc etc ...

Maybe create more content instead of making X harder by making all npcs behave like sleepers..


The problem with storied mission arcs is they cost a lot to produce, the playerbase goes through them in a week, and then they are basically worn out. That is the lesson that WoW teaches. There are ample missions available as is.

The LP stores are fine as is, if you want different items from PVE, do some exploration content, after all a corelum c-type energized adaptive nano is a better item than a gallente navy energized adaptive nano from the LP stores in the same regions, and there are even better things available in lowsec and null.
Shade Millith
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#365 - 2013-01-17 00:58:34 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Shade Millith wrote:


More like -

Do I want a boring slow van with manual.
Or do I want a boring slow van with automatic.

They're both boring as hell, one is just easier to drive with less bulls*** and both get me where I want to go at the same time. Which is to the PVP.


If this has gone over your head again, then here's a TL:DR -

1- PVE is boring to me, full stop. It will never interest me in a million years beyond a way to obtain ISK. I don't care how close to PVP it is, unless there is another person controlling that ship, I'm not interested.
2- The only reason I do any PVE is to get PVP.
3- Less interaction with the PVE is better, because it means I can do other things while doing the boring PVE.
4- More interaction is going to cause more boredom, because I can't do more interesting things while doing boring PVE.


A man goes to see his doctor and says "Doctor I'm afraid I'm really unwell, whenever I do missions in EVE, they bore the ever-living crap out of me. What should I do, doctor?"

The doctor replies "Well stop running them, then."


Then here's a question...

How am I supposed to make a steady supply of ISK?

Plexes? PVE, boring.
Wormholes? PVE, boring.
Belt Ratting? PVE, boring.
Incursions? PVE, boring.
Mining? PVE, boring.
Missions? PVE, boring.
POS's? HAH, not likely.
Theron Urian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#366 - 2013-01-17 01:14:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Theron Urian
Shade Millith wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Shade Millith wrote:


More like -

Do I want a boring slow van with manual.
Or do I want a boring slow van with automatic.

They're both boring as hell, one is just easier to drive with less bulls*** and both get me where I want to go at the same time. Which is to the PVP.


If this has gone over your head again, then here's a TL:DR -

1- PVE is boring to me, full stop. It will never interest me in a million years beyond a way to obtain ISK. I don't care how close to PVP it is, unless there is another person controlling that ship, I'm not interested.
2- The only reason I do any PVE is to get PVP.
3- Less interaction with the PVE is better, because it means I can do other things while doing the boring PVE.
4- More interaction is going to cause more boredom, because I can't do more interesting things while doing boring PVE.


A man goes to see his doctor and says "Doctor I'm afraid I'm really unwell, whenever I do missions in EVE, they bore the ever-living crap out of me. What should I do, doctor?"

The doctor replies "Well stop running them, then."


Then here's a question...

How am I supposed to make a steady supply of ISK?

Plexes? PVE, boring.
Wormholes? PVE, boring.
Belt Ratting? PVE, boring.
Incursions? PVE, boring.
Mining? PVE, boring.
Missions? PVE, boring.
POS's? HAH, not likely.


Faction warfare, PI, shoot belt rats while your out roaming anyways, selling loot from roams, station trade alt, Corp ship replacement policies, insurance, start a youtube or stream showing niche / interesting pvp roams, ideas, or info and get a sponsorship and have viewers donate ships, scamming on an alt in Jita, and countless other ways.

And you already said your bored with PvE so why would being bored with mining be any worse... its even more of an afk activity so you should looooove it, go ice mine and watch a movie.

Hopefully that helps. Stop trying to come off like a kicked puppy making it sound like you are forced to do content you think is boring.

Edit: Wormholes also always have the possibility to turn in to a PvP situation even if your mining or shooting sleepers. Sounds like you just cant be pleased and will rage and cry no matter what.
Shade Millith
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#367 - 2013-01-17 06:07:09 UTC
Theron Urian wrote:
Sounds like you just cant be pleased and will rage and cry no matter what.


I'm irritated that in 'Improving' the game, they're removing people's options.

If you want advanced AI, with more reward, there's Worm Holes and Incursions.
If you want a half-hearted grind with less ISK, there's missions.

Instead, they're trying to make missions into the same pain in the arse Worm Holes and Incursions are, if 'PVP like' is any indication.

Some people, shockingly enough, may not want that.

Yes, make advanced AI, and PVE that is more PVP like, but don't gut already established mechanics to do it. Make something new.

Hell, we've already got a place for it. Worm Holes and Incursions. Put this new AI there, and if someone wants to have a more PVP like encounter, they can go there!

Like they were freaking designed to be in the first place.
Vas Eldryn
#368 - 2013-01-17 06:28:17 UTC
new AI just hit null complexes tonight.... a word of advice ... when you remove an entire class of ships ability to make isk, give us a heads up...

taking a 6 month break till i can fly missile ships.... please give me a heads up if you decide to make missiles redundant in the next 6 months though...

ty
Vince Snetterton
#369 - 2013-01-17 07:55:52 UTC
Vas Eldryn wrote:
new AI just hit null complexes tonight.... a word of advice ... when you remove an entire class of ships ability to make isk, give us a heads up...

taking a 6 month break till i can fly missile ships.... please give me a heads up if you decide to make missiles redundant in the next 6 months though...

ty


Whoa...what do you mean "tonight"?
I thought these changes hit across the board back in December?
Vas Eldryn
#370 - 2013-01-17 08:28:43 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Vas Eldryn wrote:
new AI just hit null complexes tonight.... a word of advice ... when you remove an entire class of ships ability to make isk, give us a heads up...

taking a 6 month break till i can fly missile ships.... please give me a heads up if you decide to make missiles redundant in the next 6 months though...

ty


Whoa...what do you mean "tonight"?
I thought these changes hit across the board back in December?


guess they amped it up tonight, cant even deploy drones in null plexes without pulling agro of everyone else in the room instantly... every time i undocked drones , all agro is dumped on drones
Marillio
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
#371 - 2013-01-17 15:58:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Marillio
*snip*
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#372 - 2013-01-17 16:09:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Spc One
Marillio wrote:
Today another friend left the game due to the changes and having no fun anymore. 7 years, every day in the same channel and now hes gone. I dont know, if it was really worth to change the game like this. One can not simply take an online player everything he liked to play, without having to bear the consequences.

That leads me to another thing. If a game gets unbalanced, it gets uninteresting very fast. Even after 10 years of playing. I always thought, we play this game forever, no matter what happens, but I was wrong. My friend left without saying much, just its bored and he wanna have fun again. Very sad, that this happens so fast. Straight

I will also leave eve in 15 days when my subscription expires ( All 3 accounts ).

I will return if NPC AI and when NPC AI becomes like it was before.
Those are my terms:
1. Roll back all npc changes.

If that doesn't happen, i'll go and play some other PVE games that are more fun.
And no you can't have my stuff.
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#373 - 2013-01-17 16:25:33 UTC
Marillio wrote:
Today another friend left the game due to the changes and having no fun anymore. 7 years, every day in the same channel and now hes gone. I dont know, if it was really worth to change the game like this. One can not simply take an online player everything he liked to play, without having to bear the consequences.

That leads me to another thing. If a game gets unbalanced, it gets uninteresting very fast. Even after 10 years of playing. I always thought, we play this game forever, no matter what happens, but I was wrong. My friend left without saying much, just its bored and he wanna have fun again. Very sad, that this happens so fast. Straight



Problem is, that eve fairly never got this kind of masses playing at the same time. 40-50k pilots active at all times are a lot. Before the retribution patch I usually saw 20-30k only.
Theron Urian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#374 - 2013-01-17 17:22:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Theron Urian
Shade Millith wrote:
Theron Urian wrote:
Sounds like you just cant be pleased and will rage and cry no matter what.


I'm irritated that in 'Improving' the game, they're removing people's options.

If you want advanced AI, with more reward, there's Worm Holes and Incursions.
If you want a half-hearted grind with less ISK, there's missions.

Instead, they're trying to make missions into the same pain in the arse Worm Holes and Incursions are, if 'PVP like' is any indication.

Some people, shockingly enough, may not want that.

Yes, make advanced AI, and PVE that is more PVP like, but don't gut already established mechanics to do it. Make something new.

Hell, we've already got a place for it. Worm Holes and Incursions. Put this new AI there, and if someone wants to have a more PVP like encounter, they can go there!

Like they were freaking designed to be in the first place.


They are not removing any options at all, they are improving upon existing in game content. If you feel that your option to PvE is removed because you hate PvE and now need to pay a little more attention, then you are the equivalent of a blind art critic, you already hate PvE no matter what. PvE is currently not fun for you, it will continue to be as you say "not fun for you", Find another isk source and be done with it then.

From a game design stand point that people would want to go watch tv or youtube while grinding or playing your game is a bad thing. CCP wants each element of the game to be as fun and enveloping as it possibly can be, they want people to play the game not feel like its some thing to have running in the background and check on evrey once in a blue moon. This is not a Korean grind fest mmo, they want people to play the game and have fun.

Why would they continue to leave old outdated game mechanics and pile new ones on top of them non stop, all this will do is eventually make the game a trash heap of jumbled ideas and mechanics and leave the game feeling severely disjointed.

I know people here hate WOW but I am going to use it as an example, when wow changed Azeroth to be in line with the other expansions it was to bring old content in to line with new more engaging and entertaining content, instead of leaving a huge boring disconnected chunk of game.
Caldari Citizen20121206
Great Eastern
#375 - 2013-01-17 17:27:38 UTC
Quote:
I know people here hate WOW but I am going to use it as an example, when wow changed Azeroth to be in line with the other expansions it was to bring old content in to line with new more engaging and entertaining content, instead of leaving a huge boring disconnected chunk of game.5


thats is when i left wow permanently, lol ironic
Marillio
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
#376 - 2013-01-17 17:34:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Marillio
*snip*
Theron Urian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#377 - 2013-01-17 18:01:56 UTC
Caldari Citizen20121206 wrote:
Quote:
I know people here hate WOW but I am going to use it as an example, when wow changed Azeroth to be in line with the other expansions it was to bring old content in to line with new more engaging and entertaining content, instead of leaving a huge boring disconnected chunk of game.5


thats is when i left wow permanently, lol ironic


But why exactly did you leave, was if for this exact reason?

Point of the statement is that leaving in old archaic boring game content (and then refusing to update it) in with new entertaining content leaves a game feeling disjointed and is a bad design idea.

I invite any one to find fault with that statement. I am betting the fault will be "They are removing my semi afk mind numbing isk grind and now I need to pay attention or find a new way to make isk and both are hard.".

People are complaining about a update and improvement to the game because of what boils down to just plain being lazy and set in their ways.
Theron Urian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#378 - 2013-01-17 18:09:22 UTC
Marillio wrote:
Caldari Citizen20121206 wrote:
Marillio wrote:
Today another friend left the game due to the changes and having no fun anymore. 7 years, every day in the same channel and now hes gone. I dont know, if it was really worth to change the game like this. One can not simply take an online player everything he liked to play, without having to bear the consequences.

That leads me to another thing. If a game gets unbalanced, it gets uninteresting very fast. Even after 10 years of playing. I always thought, we play this game forever, no matter what happens, but I was wrong. My friend left without saying much, just its bored and he wanna have fun again. Very sad, that this happens so fast. Straight



Problem is, that eve fairly never got this kind of masses playing at the same time. 40-50k pilots active at all times are a lot. Before the retribution patch I usually saw 20-30k only.


Maybe its more interesting to get new players, because if you have 150 mil skillpoints, like me, the challange to launch interesting content for my characters is not so easy, that could be the reason, why they nerve existing content so much.

PVE was brutal fun with only two accounts befor retribution, but maybe because it was too easy. I am looking for alternatives, too. There are so many ways to make isk, but most of them are not that interesting for high-skilled players. Maybe CCP wants more players paying real money to play the game and found out that too many people were paying it with easy mission-isk. Who knows, what the real motivation is.

I have always payed with real money, because i wanted to support good software developments with good money. Now my accounts are active till september and the daily gameplay is gone. But i would have never expected, that they change the game like this, even if the motivation is understandable.

Today in corp they told me, CCP is planning to nerv Tech 3 in the summer, too. I dont understand those ideas of balancing, because I thought, they gonna launch more tech 3 content. Not understandable, because it will kill all the class 1-3 wormhole PVE next. Sad

Anyway, it doesnt matter, what they do, even if they shut down the server, EVE has given me so much fun and good times, at least this they cant nerve.


Yes they are nerfing T3s, the point of T3 was to have a modular hull that could be built to handle any situation the player wanted and be good at it, not to be the best be all end all ship. Read the csm minutes, read the design ideas, T3 will still have its place in the game.

Right now T3 are better Hacs than Hacs, better Recon than Recon ships, ect, ect, ect. The current iteration of T3 ships was not the design idea they had from the start.
Illusive Wolf
Illusion Exploration
#379 - 2013-01-17 19:35:21 UTC
Make PvE more like PvP... Fine. When was the last time all the frigs in a -A- fleet decided they would shoot my hobgoblins?
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#380 - 2013-01-17 21:04:25 UTC
Shade Millith wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Shade Millith wrote:


More like -

Do I want a boring slow van with manual.
Or do I want a boring slow van with automatic.

They're both boring as hell, one is just easier to drive with less bulls*** and both get me where I want to go at the same time. Which is to the PVP.


If this has gone over your head again, then here's a TL:DR -

1- PVE is boring to me, full stop. It will never interest me in a million years beyond a way to obtain ISK. I don't care how close to PVP it is, unless there is another person controlling that ship, I'm not interested.
2- The only reason I do any PVE is to get PVP.
3- Less interaction with the PVE is better, because it means I can do other things while doing the boring PVE.
4- More interaction is going to cause more boredom, because I can't do more interesting things while doing boring PVE.


A man goes to see his doctor and says "Doctor I'm afraid I'm really unwell, whenever I do missions in EVE, they bore the ever-living crap out of me. What should I do, doctor?"

The doctor replies "Well stop running them, then."


Then here's a question...

How am I supposed to make a steady supply of ISK?

Plexes? PVE, boring.
Wormholes? PVE, boring.
Belt Ratting? PVE, boring.
Incursions? PVE, boring.
Mining? PVE, boring.
Missions? PVE, boring.
POS's? HAH, not likely.



Get a part time job. Use that money to sell Plex. Every couple hours you can afford what now...about an billion isk? Both may be boring but you well spend less time working at your part-time job in order to get your isk.