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Why CCP Is Wrong About Modular POSes

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Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#41 - 2013-01-17 14:48:23 UTC
posting in a "We want Modular POSes" thread because WE WANT MODULAR POSSES

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Nair Alderau
The Blessed Chains of Freedom
#42 - 2013-01-17 14:52:47 UTC
Denidil wrote:
posting in a "We want Modular POSes" thread because WE WANT MODULAR POSSES


The proper thread seems to be THIS THREADNAUGHT IN DEVELOPMENT.

Nuff said.
Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#43 - 2013-01-17 15:16:24 UTC
Hehe 41 pages of support for POS revamp and most other "official" topics have 3 or less.

Just hope and pray CCP realize their mistake soon. They seen the error of their ways in the past. This is another time they should be listening to the player base.

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#44 - 2013-01-17 15:19:40 UTC
Lady Zarrina wrote:
Hehe 41 pages of support for POS revamp and most other "official" topics have 3 or less.

Just hope and pray CCP realize their mistake soon. They seen the error of their ways in the past. This is another time they should be listening to the player base.


Their current silence isn't a good sign.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#45 - 2013-01-17 15:20:59 UTC
Tippia wrote:
A working modular POS system could stand a chance to become the pride and joy of the game, rather than the constant source of “fix it!”-threadnoughts that they have been for the last decade.
Just to iterate on this point, the same thing could have been said about WIS, but there's a crucial difference here:

WIS had no content and no gameplay attached to it.
POSes already do.

We already know what they're for and they are already a critical component in a wide array of different forms of gameplay. A reduction in horribleness alone would improve the entire game; iterations to add more functionality, to widen their usage to even more gameplay elements, and increasing the reasons for players to use them would inherently be a good addition to something everyone + dog uses… Iteration and visual upgrades (the actual modularity — the functionality doesn't necessarily require it) stands every chance of being unavoidably spectacular.
Nair Alderau
The Blessed Chains of Freedom
#46 - 2013-01-17 15:55:53 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Tippia wrote:
A working modular POS system could stand a chance to become the pride and joy of the game, rather than the constant source of “fix it!”-threadnoughts that they have been for the last decade.
Just to iterate on this point, the same thing could have been said about WIS, but there's a crucial difference here:

WIS had no content and no gameplay attached to it.
POSes already do.

We already know what they're for and they are already a critical component in a wide array of different forms of gameplay. A reduction in horribleness alone would improve the entire game; iterations to add more functionality, to widen their usage to even more gameplay elements, and increasing the reasons for players to use them would inherently be a good addition to something everyone + dog uses… Iteration and visual upgrades (the actual modularity — the functionality doesn't necessarily require it) stands every chance of being unavoidably spectacular.


So, so much truth in this.
Fanatic Row
Neo T.E.C.H.
#47 - 2013-01-17 16:12:09 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Is there even any debate about this amongst the playerbase?
Yes, because expansions with just one focus like a POS revamp, will drive people away.

Nobody wants to wait X years for their issue to be tackled. I highly applaud CCPs intention of returning to Apocrypha-styled expansions.

That being said, I do find it laughable that CCP claims that a POS revamp would eat up the entire team for a year.

If they can't manage something like that in a single 6-month expansion, they seriously need to wake up and look at the fact that what they are currently offering as expansions, is closer to what other AAA MMOs put out as, between-expansion, larger content updates.

I realize they can't charge for expansions and need to make the subscription income stretch as far as possible, but it's not like the live team is busy pushing out regular monthly updates. Combined with the non-sub income from PLEX sales, there should be enough resources to push out expansions worthy of a triple A MMO.
Kalk Drigand
Propaganda Corp
#48 - 2013-01-17 16:15:28 UTC
This idea is golden and benefits more people than being able to walk around inside my ship..... which does what exactly?

Modular POS's should be really cheap at first but can only dock a frigate or two... and have tiny inventory space... and then it becomes increasingly more expensive to upgrade it to house larger and more ships/modules inside of it....

they should be destroyable but only under certain situations... maybe make it a faction warfare only thing and if you flip the system you can kill all the POS's

I dont see how they would be destroyable otherwise... how would 1 player ever defend his POS against pirates... and they HAVE to be destroyable or it wouldnt fit the eve model...
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#49 - 2013-01-17 16:26:44 UTC
Fanatic Row wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Is there even any debate about this amongst the playerbase?
Yes, because expansions with just one focus like a POS revamp, will drive people away.


You are not far off the mark, but this is demonstrably false. Last 3 expansions had heavily to do with Faction Warfare. A ton of work was done to it. Inferno was basically all FW. And Retribution also incredibly FW heavy as well. Population didn't noticeably drop, despite almost a year of almost exclusive FW changes, that not that many people partake in the first place. Last I looked each faction had 3300-4300 characters, so probably only about 5k real players, once you get rid of the farming alts.

You are also not wrong though, because despite these 3 past relatively successful expansions, population did not grow either. We didn't set any new concurrent user records, nor did we break 500k user record. So while such focus did not kill EVE, it also didn't help it much - it just continues to stagnate like it has for years.

I also maintain that a POS revamp shouldn't take a year. Or even 6 months. Much smaller companies accomplished much more in less time with a lot less developers working on it. Yes, even in MMO genre. Unless EVE development team has been stripped down to a skeleton crew because of Dust, I don't see why it should take that long.
Etherealclams
#50 - 2013-01-17 16:28:49 UTC
Modular POSs will be Eve's Minecraft.

How many players does minecraft have again...?

http://aclamthatrants.blogspot.com/ Read up on my adventures.
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#51 - 2013-01-17 16:44:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Manssell
Look people don't you get it? Middle management has spoken, and middle management speak has won, no POS's for us. No matter how much we need it, no matter how much new gameplay can be introduced with them, no matter how much it would benefit so many people from the large alliance to the solo player, a POS rework no longer fits in with the new flow charts CCP must follow. I mean meetings where had people! A design strategy was sold. Look at the charts, are they not pretty? Do they not make sense in a middle management way? People's reputations are at stake here and if POS's don't fit this new design strategy then damn the POS's CCP will say.
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#52 - 2013-01-17 16:49:38 UTC
Would love to own my own station. If I could dock in and it. If it didn't take 3 days to setup. If it wasn't a full time job to maintain. And it had exotic dancer. Make it happen and sub will go up.

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
CCP Dolan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#53 - 2013-01-17 16:52:26 UTC
Moved to My EVE, as it is the forum for Blog Posts.

CCP Dolan | Community Representative

Twitter: @CCPDolan

Gooby pls
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#54 - 2013-01-17 17:58:52 UTC
This is one of a number of issues that reflect a misjudging of the player base. I have, in my time, configured POS's and had to deal with fueling them etc. But my main focus is PVP. It's a chore, not fun.

The CSM, as it is not a 2-party system, means that the eve populace is represented by a minority vote - at best it's a coalition of people who have convinced enough of their friends to vote for them that they get a seat.

As such the information passed from the CSM to CCP is heavily biased. Realistically a random group of people should be pulled into meetings to discuss issues - perhaps several different groups of people separately regarding the same issue.

This thread and other like it are both encouraging and a little disheartening. Forum activity /= intelligence or experience, nor does 10 hours a day of playtime make you unbiased.

S2 Games took a vote a few months ago on the direction of the game they make, Heroes of Newerth. They literally took voting results and implemented them. CCP however, like many companies, veil what they do in secrets until they reach a very advanced stage. Some big issues are made public, but not all of them.

I guess what i'm trying to say is: Imagine when you next logged into eve you had a vote. "What would you rather we developed? POS Modularity or X", where X is whatever is eating up their time right now. Larger votes on top 5 things to be changed could then result in a 1 for 1 vote on what people want to be changed. Would be an interesting idea.

As for POS modularity - i have nothing against it. I would like to experiment with it's results but i can't express an experienced opinion on it - nor would i trust what i said has the slightest impact on the issue due to there being no real guarantee people that MATTER read my post.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#55 - 2013-01-17 17:59:20 UTC
CCP Dolan wrote:
Moved to My EVE, as it is the forum for Blog Posts.


Gooby plz...
Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#56 - 2013-01-17 18:06:54 UTC
CCP is obviously trying to hide the fact you dont understand your player base. CLosing thread, moving thread, saying to post in threads that dont exist.

Unbelievable. You truly have learned nothing. POS dont fit in your new development process So screw POS's. Maybe... just maybe you should reevaluate your new design/development process before you blindly ignore what your player base wants.

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#57 - 2013-01-17 19:08:16 UTC
To quote my American cousins, "Y'all just be getting comfortable in the POS mechanics that already exist" ... DUST is the primary concern of CCP now.

CCP is a business, they need to pay bills and keep employees paid. Fairly certain that even the mudpups in the player community grasp that one. Blink

Add to that, CCP's contractual obligations with SONY -- and you can bet with the state of affairs that SONY is currently in that they will be squeezing CCP (and all their other business partners) to exceed expectations. In CCP's case, that means keeping the DUST material as innovative and exciting as possible.

EVE might be real... but not as real as shareholders and corporate executives expecting to see a profit on a quarterly basis.





"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#58 - 2013-01-17 20:04:29 UTC
EVE needs a rebuild from the ground up - too many game mechanics are either underused and create substantial workload for the staff, or, are simply 'unfixable' and require extensive workload to periodically offset its balance.

Ground up.

Start at the map from the outside and work inwards to the 4 main hubs of Amarr, Min, Gal & Caldari. Logic is: if you break anything, it affects the least amount of players first and the most last.

The last thing you should be doing is adding content.

If this truly is a sand-box, it's a thousand miles across and 1 grain of sand thick, patrolled by developers who do not have enough sand to cover its size, yet insist on making the sandbox bigger as this will somehow increase revenue.

Only problem with that theory is that the more content you add, the more developers it takes to micro manage the balance of the game mechanics and you hit a plateau whereby the amount of $ required to manage it outstrips the amount of $ it generates.

Ten years of content...work on making it work and redesign the whole game so it actually is:

(a) manageable
(b) profitable
(c) logical

As for POS's...never used one and do not intend to, but if something exists in the game it should be something that can be destroyed or stolen. If POS's can't, why is this being considered? And, I suspect is part of the bigger issue above.

AK

This space for rent.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#59 - 2013-01-17 20:08:25 UTC
Felicity Love wrote:
EVE might be real... but not as real as shareholders and corporate executives expecting to see a profit on a quarterly basis.


CCP is not a public company.

This space for rent.
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