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reactive armor hardener usage
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LordSpock
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-01-16 15:58:18 UTC
I have the RAH on both my Domi and Geddon (combined with 1+1 specific hardener) and didn't feel the need to even train the skill to lvl1. It doesn't do anything for me atm except the mentioned extra cap usage.

For me this setup works just fine without the skill trained. As long as the skill isn't adjusted I'm not going to train it. I'll just wait a little longer and jope for the best.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#22 - 2013-01-16 16:03:16 UTC
RAHs have an incredible high ore-compression-rate. So if you want to jump all that garbage your miners have produced from 0.0 into highsec, better build some RAHs and reprocess them in high.
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
Transgress
#23 - 2013-01-16 16:40:45 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
RAHs have an incredible high ore-compression-rate. So if you want to jump all that garbage your miners have produced from 0.0 into highsec, better build some RAHs and reprocess them in high.


Now this is interresting usage. The only drawback is missing BPO.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#24 - 2013-01-16 17:51:07 UTC
Bigg Gun wrote:
Strictly pve speaking why would you ever use armor tank? The only 3 exceptions I can think of are the 2 armor marauders and the typhoon. The purpose of most mission boats is to kill stuff fast. If you want to do this effectively you'd stuff your lows with damage mods and then dps the crap out of every target. Just saying.


Because some people have better armor skills than shield skills and training to optimize their L4 mission performance is a low priority so they prefer to do what works best now rather than 6 months into the hypothetical future.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
PavlikX
Scan Stakan
HOLD MY PROBS
#25 - 2013-01-16 19:52:29 UTC
I've started thread about different variants of RAH and new armor layering membranes (Armor HP bonus instead of resists) before.
Lookslike only shield tank fans read that thread :)
I hope CCP will pay attention to this modules and give us imperial navy RAH and a-type ELM.
Probably it can be a fix to the armor tank entirely
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#26 - 2013-01-16 23:37:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Funky Lazers
Bigg Gun wrote:
Strictly pve speaking why would you ever use armor tank? The only 3 exceptions I can think of are the 2 armor marauders and the typhoon. The purpose of most mission boats is to kill stuff fast. If you want to do this effectively you'd stuff your lows with damage mods and then dps the crap out of every target. Just saying.


Because some people never use their brain to figure it out. No offence, but it's silly to choose rotten apple over a fresh one.
Shield ships (except the caldari ones) are superior on missions.
Not only you get better damage, which helps with DPS tanking, but also you get the better tank with less mods.

I had Pally with shield tank. It rocked very hard! Even that ship works better with a shield tank.

I can't get why people even train armor skills while shield is better in PvE and PvP.

Also RAH sucks. I tested it over a month and didn't like it.
It uses too much cap even for a BS. I also don't have a skill for that mod since cap is a precious thing.
For that cap price it should give at least 16-17% of resists.

All in all, this mod is not even a PvE one like many people say. Specific hardeners for a mission work way better.

Whatever.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#27 - 2013-01-17 01:51:22 UTC
Is there a reason why this module wouldn't be useful against sleepers?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-01-17 02:10:04 UTC
Funky Lazers wrote:
Bigg Gun wrote:
Strictly pve speaking why would you ever use armor tank? The only 3 exceptions I can think of are the 2 armor marauders and the typhoon. The purpose of most mission boats is to kill stuff fast. If you want to do this effectively you'd stuff your lows with damage mods and then dps the crap out of every target. Just saying.


Because some people never use their brain to figure it out. No offence, but it's silly to choose rotten apple over a fresh one.
Shield ships (except the caldari ones) are superior on missions.
Not only you get better damage, which helps with DPS tanking, but also you get the better tank with less mods.

I had Pally with shield tank. It rocked very hard! Even that ship works better with a shield tank.

I can't get why people even train armor skills while shield is better in PvE and PvP.

Also RAH sucks. I tested it over a month and didn't like it.
It uses too much cap even for a BS. I also don't have a skill for that mod since cap is a precious thing.
For that cap price it should give at least 16-17% of resists.

All in all, this mod is not even a PvE one like many people say. Specific hardeners for a mission work way better.


Maybe because some people fly what they enjoy. I have never worried about maximizing my isk per hour. I play eve to have fun. Surprisingly this hasa sent me down paths that made me more isk than I know what to spend it on. I don't think I could go back to the paltry isk/hr that missions provide. I do run them sometimes for a change of pace, but not for the isk.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-01-17 05:06:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
I found it funny how people always tried to shoehorn this mod into PvE setups despite the fact that PvE is defined by total predictability of damage type - something that should automatically say "specific hardener", not "intended wildcard counter". Or how people tried to use the thing on anything including frigs despite ungodly cap drain, then complaining that "CCP should fix this as it doesn't work". Needless to say that it was, again, for PvE purposes (wtf). People tried to use it in their "solo pvp" or whatever despite fights being short and RAH needs time to even start matter. Finally, the strongest point of RAH (stacking penalties against DCU but not against regular hardeners) was outright ignored.

RAH shines when:
- armor tank is your best bet;
- you have minutes before any meaningful damage is done;
- you don't care about -6 cap drain;
- your lows are so stuffed with hardeners that any other module will be killed by stacking penalties.

Reactive armor hardener is a capital ship mod, and leave it as that. At least until CCP decide that they wanted something else and actually change the mod in a meaningful way.

Example of doing it somewhat right can be seen here. Note the last remark in the description.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
Transgress
#30 - 2013-01-17 08:28:40 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
I found it funny how people always tried to shoehorn this mod into PvE setups despite the fact that PvE is defined by total predictability of damage type - something that should automatically say "specific hardener", not "intended wildcard counter". Or how people tried to use the thing on anything including frigs despite ungodly cap drain, then complaining that "CCP should fix this as it doesn't work". Needless to say that it was, again, for PvE purposes (wtf). People tried to use it in their "solo pvp" or whatever despite fights being short and RAH needs time to even start matter. Finally, the strongest point of RAH (stacking penalties against DCU but not against regular hardeners) was outright ignored.

RAH shines when:
- armor tank is your best bet;
- you have minutes before any meaningful damage is done;
- you don't care about -6 cap drain;
- your lows are so stuffed with hardeners that any other module will be killed by stacking penalties.

Reactive armor hardener is a capital ship mod, and leave it as that. At least until CCP decide that they wanted something else and actually change the mod in a meaningful way.

Example of doing it somewhat right can be seen here. Note the last remark in the description.


Since I dont fly capital ship this usage was out of my scope. But on capital ships this module makes sense. I wish the cap usage were lower so it was much more viable even on cruiser size ships.
LordSpock
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-01-17 08:29:33 UTC
Funky Lazers wrote:
Bigg Gun wrote:
Strictly pve speaking why would you ever use armor tank? The only 3 exceptions I can think of are the 2 armor marauders and the typhoon. The purpose of most mission boats is to kill stuff fast. If you want to do this effectively you'd stuff your lows with damage mods and then dps the crap out of every target. Just saying.


Because some people never use their brain to figure it out. No offence, but it's silly to choose rotten apple over a fresh one.
Shield ships (except the caldari ones) are superior on missions.
Not only you get better damage, which helps with DPS tanking, but also you get the better tank with less mods.

I had Pally with shield tank. It rocked very hard! Even that ship works better with a shield tank.

I can't get why people even train armor skills while shield is better in PvE and PvP.

Also RAH sucks. I tested it over a month and didn't like it.
It uses too much cap even for a BS. I also don't have a skill for that mod since cap is a precious thing.
For that cap price it should give at least 16-17% of resists.

All in all, this mod is not even a PvE one like many people say. Specific hardeners for a mission work way better.


Please provide me with a shield fit that does well enough in all tyoes of missions (Mercs, Guristas etc.) but shines mostly in Bloodraider and Sansha missions. I never actually gotten the idea to try a shieldpally, but would love to get some pointers.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#32 - 2013-01-17 11:16:37 UTC
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
Is there a reason why this module wouldn't be useful against sleepers?


Sleepers do all four types of damage, so you'd get the least possible return for this module... but still you might find the non-stacked 20% omni resist better than a triple-stacked EANM on some ships.

.
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
Transgress
#33 - 2013-01-17 12:44:00 UTC
Roime wrote:
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
Is there a reason why this module wouldn't be useful against sleepers?


Sleepers do all four types of damage, so you'd get the least possible return for this module... but still you might find the non-stacked 20% omni resist better than a triple-stacked EANM on some ships.



Provided there will be T2 variant with 20% resist.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#34 - 2013-01-17 12:50:19 UTC
Looks like I herpderped the percentage right there :S

.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-01-17 13:21:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Nalha Saldana
I run L4s with this loki setup because it doesnt need to change resists and can do any L4 with only 3 tank modules.
The armor setup is superior in the way it can pop any frig at any range and thus avoids webs.

[Loki, L4 armor]
'Meditation' Medium Armor Repairer I
Reactive Armor Hardener
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Cap Recharger II

425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst


Hobgoblin II x5
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#36 - 2013-01-17 15:09:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Bigg Gun wrote:
Strictly pve speaking why would you ever use armor tank? The only 3 exceptions I can think of are the 2 armor marauders and the typhoon. The purpose of most mission boats is to kill stuff fast. If you want to do this effectively you'd stuff your lows with damage mods and then dps the crap out of every target. Just saying.

Typhoon actually works very well in PVE shield tanked. Have to use rigs to boost resists if you want to fit a AB, I also use the X-large ASB. 7 cycles is more than enough for most missions with such high DPS. Sheild tanking it leaves all those low slots for damage mods. 4 T2 torps, 4 800mm AC's, and 4 T2 Heavy drones, with 2 damage mods for each. 1400 DPS is not hard to pull off.

Fleet typhoon is really fun, and very fast mission runner.

As far as the RAF goes, it all depends on how many hardeners/EANM you have. An RAF will benefit you more than a third EANM or a Second hardener. Why? As others have said but keeps getting ignored. It does not suffer from stacking penalties with other resists mods. If you have 2 damage specific hardeners, a EANM, and a Suitcase, and want your resists higher RAF is the right mod to fit. Another hardener or EANM will suffer for heavy stacking penalty being the third module in the stack. Where as an RAF will stack only with the damage controller which results in giving you a better resist boost. A T2 RAF module when added could become a mandatory mod for all armor PVP fits.

Once you train the skill for it to 3 or 4 it really shines if you now how and when to use it. If you find it SHlT then you are using it wrong.
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#37 - 2013-01-17 15:19:40 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Typhoon actually works very well in PVE shield tanked.


It is not just "very well in PVE shield tanked" it's Great shield tanking ship. The Fleet one.

Some time ago I had Sentries+Cruises setup. Worked very good - had like ~900 DPS, which is just fine.
Love that ship.

Whatever.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#38 - 2013-01-17 15:40:19 UTC
Shpenat wrote:
Roime wrote:
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
Is there a reason why this module wouldn't be useful against sleepers?


Sleepers do all four types of damage, so you'd get the least possible return for this module... but still you might find the non-stacked 20% omni resist better than a triple-stacked EANM on some ships.



Provided there will be T2 variant with 20% resist.

If CCP ever bothers, yeah.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#39 - 2013-01-17 15:57:03 UTC
Funky Lazers wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Typhoon actually works very well in PVE shield tanked.


It is not just "very well in PVE shield tanked" it's Great shield tanking ship. The Fleet one.

Some time ago I had Sentries+Cruises setup. Worked very good - had like ~900 DPS, which is just fine.
Love that ship.

Yes it is. And considering you can buy a fleet typhoon for under 300M, it is well worth the investment. Even a ranged fit can do over 1000 DPS with everything hitting out to over 50km.
Whang'Lo
Cosmically Irrelevant
#40 - 2013-01-17 17:37:00 UTC
Quote:
How about Navy Domi with Sentries? Where you put the Omnidirectionals?


This.

On my navy domi I really like:

Target Painter
Omnidirectional
Afterburner
Sensor Booster
Cap Recharger

And yes I have tried to shield tank it, I see little dps difference.

After trying both, I believe the armor tanked version clears level 4's quicker.



[u]A Paranoid is just someone with all the facts - William Burroughs[/u]