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Mission wreck ownership needs a little work.
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Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#1 - 2013-01-17 07:10:52 UTC
Several years ago, CCP changed mission wreck ownership to the current system: whoever accepted the mission gains automatic wreck ownership. However, with the newest changes thanks to Retribution, this causes some seriously idiotic issues with dual box mission running(or even with friends) and the suspect flag.

I suggest that mission wreck ownership should mirror all other rat wreck ownership, OR that wrecks are white to fleet members regardless of the owner being in the respective system.

Why?

1. When I accept a mission on an alt, then run it with my main character, why should the character that did all the work not get wreck ownership? Why should the alt need to be in system when all wrecks observed should belong to the fleet, always?

2. When I loot the wreck or container for a mission item that needs to be turned in, why should I get a suspect flag when I'm fleeted with the character who took the mission? This puts my mission ships at peril for no reason whatsoever, and is a fairly broken aspect of the mechanics involved(though the mechanics themselves aren't broken).

3. Why am I given the option to split mission rewards with fleet members, while not even given the option of allowing them to loot wrecks without me in system thanks to suspect flags?

The only sensible solution is to change mission wreck ownership. I like suspect flags, so those will have to stay.
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-01-17 08:20:37 UTC
Chicken Pizza wrote:

3. Why am I given the option to split mission rewards with fleet members, while not even given the option of allowing them to loot wrecks without me in system thanks to suspect flags?


You can... right click abandon all nearby wrecks.

With the way you are doing missions, don't you technically need to have your alt that accepted the mission in system anyway? in order to warp the alt doing the mission to the mission bookmark?

Or are you actually using several alts to run the missions and accepting multiple missions from multiple agents at any one time and that is why the alt can't remain in system?

...

Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#3 - 2013-01-17 08:58:22 UTC
TheSkeptic wrote:
You can... right click abandon all nearby wrecks.

With the way you are doing missions, don't you technically need to have your alt that accepted the mission in system anyway? in order to warp the alt doing the mission to the mission bookmark?

Or are you actually using several alts to run the missions and accepting multiple missions from multiple agents at any one time and that is why the alt can't remain in system?


The way I personally am running missions is with two characters, both picking up missions but only one running them unless it's something like Recon 1 or 2 out of 3. So yes, the alt has to be in system to warp the main to the mission. But there are several reasons why I'd like to be able to go back to the agent system with the alt. Most of them have to do with convenience or general forgetfulness, but sometimes it's just much easier to be able to keep your alt in the station, ready to accept after the main finishes the current 2 missions you're on and docks up. In my situation, this certainly applies, as we have wardecs and are in faction warfare, so I have a lot to watch out for constantly, as I don't mission in cheap ships.

It's not a necessity, by any means, but rather a convenience that I feel should not be taken away just because a new feature was introduced.
Griffin Omanid
Knights of the Zodiac
#4 - 2013-01-17 12:05:29 UTC
I do nearly the same thing, but don´t have your problem?
My main is only trained up to BC and Noctis and can give all leadership bonis, and my alt normally flies the mission in a BS. Also dual boxing and both are in the same fleet, while the main is the squad booster/leader.
This way may main can salvage and loot all npc wrecks from my alt without any flag. Only a short while (1-2 seconds) after salvaging the container with the loot is yellow, and then became white for my main. This is so since "Escalation to Inferno" and I think it is a small bug or server lag, cause a short time after Escalation the wrecks and containers of my alt where more often yellow and also stayed this way a while.

Proposal T2 BS Class Juggernaut
MainDrain
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-01-17 13:17:44 UTC
Im having a similar issue which resulted in my noctis going suspect last night, thankfully the only person to take it on was a newbie in a rifter that locked me and activated his web instead of his scram allowing me to get away.

Im assuming this must just be a bug as a side effect of the new crimewatch system. All NPCS killed by a fleet member should produce white wrecks to all others regardless of when and where created
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#6 - 2013-01-17 13:41:35 UTC
Right click.

-> Abandon all wrecks.

This feature already exists.
Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#7 - 2013-01-17 13:43:08 UTC
Griffin Omanid wrote:
I do nearly the same thing, but don´t have your problem?
My main is only trained up to BC and Noctis and can give all leadership bonis, and my alt normally flies the mission in a BS. Also dual boxing and both are in the same fleet, while the main is the squad booster/leader.
This way may main can salvage and loot all npc wrecks from my alt without any flag. Only a short while (1-2 seconds) after salvaging the container with the loot is yellow, and then became white for my main. This is so since "Escalation to Inferno" and I think it is a small bug or server lag, cause a short time after Escalation the wrecks and containers of my alt where more often yellow and also stayed this way a while.


Yeah, that sounds more like a bug than what I'm talking about.

MainDrain wrote:
Im having a similar issue which resulted in my noctis going suspect last night, thankfully the only person to take it on was a newbie in a rifter that locked me and activated his web instead of his scram allowing me to get away.

Im assuming this must just be a bug as a side effect of the new crimewatch system. All NPCS killed by a fleet member should produce white wrecks to all others regardless of when and where created


If only it were as simple as a bug fix. Sadly, mission wreck ownership isn't governed in the same way that other NPC wrecks are.

GM Ytterbium posted this on the community forums with regards to this topic awhile ago.
Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#8 - 2013-01-17 13:44:12 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Right click.

-> Abandon all wrecks.

This feature already exists.


If I wanted my alt to be inside the mission with my main, then I wouldn't be posting this suggestion up in the first place, now would I?
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-01-17 14:31:27 UTC
Chicken Pizza wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Right click.

-> Abandon all wrecks.

This feature already exists.


If I wanted my alt to be inside the mission with my main, then I wouldn't be posting this suggestion up in the first place, now would I?


All I can suggest is to keep the alt in system but on the out gate or something.

If your change went ahead all it would do is encourage mission griefing on a massive scale.

Scenario:
I scan you down, warp into your mission and shoot whatever drops the loot you need to complete the mission.

You now either fail the mission, or loot what is now my can and flag, and I can now kill you.

In the current form, this can still be done, but you still own the wreck/can and wont flag as long as you get to it first.

...

Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#10 - 2013-01-17 17:37:48 UTC
This must be a bug, because I have never had this issue either. I normally use my main to run the mission with an alt in a noctis. Said alt is in an NPC corp.

Friends
Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#11 - 2013-01-19 14:27:21 UTC
TheSkeptic wrote:
All I can suggest is to keep the alt in system but on the out gate or something.

If your change went ahead all it would do is encourage mission griefing on a massive scale.

Scenario:
I scan you down, warp into your mission and shoot whatever drops the loot you need to complete the mission.

You now either fail the mission, or loot what is now my can and flag, and I can now kill you.

In the current form, this can still be done, but you still own the wreck/can and wont flag as long as you get to it first.


There is merit in what you're saying with regards to my first suggestion, however I proposed two options. The latter option renders this point quite moot. Besides, there are many purposes(other than griefing) for going into someone's mission and stealing their loot. Guess where some of those mission items on your contract list in highsec came from, or the video of an Iteron ransoming a Dominix.

Hakan MacTrew wrote:
This must be a bug, because I have never had this issue either. I normally use my main to run the mission with an alt in a noctis. Said alt is in an NPC corp.


It's not a bug. It is invariably how wrecks are governed with regards to fleet members and the owner of the wreck not being in system. If the owner of the wreck is in fleet, but not in the same system as the wrecks, and the wrecks are not abandoned, you will not be able to loot them without gaining a suspect flag, and you cannot tractor beam them.

I wouldn't expect someone with a salvaging alt to experience this, though, as either the two characters will be in the same system already or the main will have abandoned the wrecks beforehand.