EVE General Discussion

Hey...

It is CSM talking about Highsec wars again when they them self know fuckall about it.

So my only way of making ISK in EVE is being brought under the spot light again. great, will see how this unfolds.

I want to suggest that we take the pvp out of nul sec. There are to many big alliances in nul sec and carebears cant fly safe there. I tried to mine their with all the nice ore, but its just to evil. Maybe we should set the max size of a nulsec alliance to 50. Then its wayyy safer and all new carebears can also goto nulsec and mine better ore. A lot are probably thinking, wtf is he gone nuts.....well, that's exactly the way a lot of people think this highsec suggestion is.

And if Joe Pod is playing an FPS game and gets shot 89734793 times the moment he starts playing that game for the first time, does he quit the game and move to another game....no he tries to get better and better. Get better guns etc.

Removing pvp from highsec is like removing guns from an fps game......nuts!

But---but--but....I like you, Solstice!

Please don't make me shoot you....

But seriously, Hippo has much more rep in RvB than me, I am basically just another mindless grunt. If Hippo agreed to take care of it, I am positive that you will see very satisfactory results in the nearer future.

Not the point.
The point is that more people supporting the idea,
means more ground for making this happen.

One person is irrelevant. Being it you or Hippo, as long as those in charge have to decide.
Ergo it's about the masses of people supporting an idea.

If Eve were really a cold, dark and harsh world, you wouldn't be able to dock at a station and become invincible for an indefinite period of time that you can also determine how long that period of time will be.

The number you are looking for is:

I would argue that in many cases even if wardecs do not directly result in kill(s) , they are good for the game.

Few examples:


• A mining corp hires a merc corp to wardec their rival mining corp to keep them out of their belts. This is creates content for all sides of the conflict. The targeted corp has several options to deal with the situation. This is EVE's player interaction by emergent gameplay at its best.


• A 5 man corporation declares war on Goonswarm and hunts their pilots flying solo in highsec. Perhaps the war will never result in any kills, perhaps it will. The option to do this should always remain in the game.

Looking purely at kills/wardec is a really bad metric for measuring the success or failure of the current game implementation.

I agree.
We need to get rid of people who discourage others to fight and we need more people who teach how to fight.
That's not eve-uni, btw. Eve-uni teaches crap.

Now where are my playmates ... ^_^

I agree! But looking at it from a perspective of whether it produces fun and engaging gameplay most certainly is. Here's an example of what I think the problem with the current system is. Take in mind this is a worst-case scenario and I'm not implying it's indicative of a larger trend in EVE's gameplay (although I think it might happen in reality slightly more often than I or anyone else should be comfortable with).

You have an industrial corporation of ten to fifteen relatively new players mining belts and building frigates. Along comes a hi-sec corporation with about thirty members, dedicated to preying on smaller, unskilled players comes along - "griefers" is a charged word with many excessively negative connotations, so let's call them "vultures" instead. They declare war on our notional industrial corporation, who know for a fact that they cannot possibly win an engagement against an enemy far more skilled and numerous than themselves, so they dock up and consider their options. The vultures are in local all the time, so they certainly can't risk undocking without support.

But wait! Here's an even larger (perhaps sixty-man) PvP corporation - let's call them "mercs" - and they've declared war on the vultures! The mercs might have come for one of many reasons. Maybe our industrial corporation hired them. Maybe someone else has a grudge against the vultures. Maybe one of the vultures has a very high bounty which the mercs intend to collect. Maybe the mercs are simply deeply offended by the vultures' habit of picking on corporations that can't really fight back. Personally that last one is my favourite, but what matters is that the vultures now have enemies that not only fight, but fight well and outnumber them. What do they do?

Well there are many answers to that, but if they're a corporation more used to shooting targets that can't shoot back, they're likely not particularly concerned about other people's opinions of them, so as "dishonourable" as it might be, the clear answer is dock up, of course. The mercs will get bored - and while the industrial corporation still see the vultures in local, it's fairly unlikely they'll undock. So you have two corporations docked up, and one corporation camping the station.

Now this is all very emergent, absolutely, but is it engaging? Is it fun? No. It's not, really.

Now obviously, this is a worst-case scenario, and there are obviously a lot of ways around this - the mercenary corporation could, for instance, say to the industrial corporation "hey, you want to mine in peace and we want to kill these jerkwads that are screwing with you. How about you tank up, go out to the belt and mine like you usually do, and we'll guard you?" But the worst-case scenario illustrates what the problem is - fundamentally, there's no reason to undock during a hi-sec war-dec other than either to do what you normally do but in far riskier circumstances, or to fight the people wardeccing you, and some people are not realistically capable of doing the latter.

Engaging gameplay, not emergent gameplay, is what is most important for EVE Online to have. Yes, a lot of the engagement in EVE Online comes from its highly emergent gameplay, but one must not assume the two are one and the same - some emergent scenarios are not engaging, and do not meaningfully contribute to player enjoyment of the game. At the end of the day, it is engagement with the game, not neccessarily its emergent nature, that keeps EVE's players paying subscriptions.

What CCP needs to do is make the wardec mechanics engaging, and give players a genuine reason to undock even if their circumstances are not neccessarily favourable, and do it in a way that does not detract from the game's emergent nature. This is what the CSM minutes are discussing.

Only one solution! James 315 for CSM 8!

This, btw, reminds me about how borked the evelopedia-entry about instaundocks is.