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CSM Minutes: No New POSes

Author
Klarion Sythis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-01-16 20:41:39 UTC
To be fair, I haven't read all 113 pages yet, but it seems POSes are back down the priority list. Possibly far down the list. I'll leave this here:

"UAxDEATH disagreed and brought up an example of priorities like POSes, “you promised us those things”. Greyscale replied that coming into meetings with the mindset of CCP promising a certain feature is a fallacious, and flat-out wrong, mindset. With conversation now completely deteriorating, Unifex took control of the conversation and spoke about POSes.

Unifex stated that what CCP did was spend effort and prototype what would make a good POS system. It would, however, only affect the group of people who manage POSes. Focusing that amount of time and effort on some small singular aspect of the game and delivering only that “is what will kill the business”.

The atmosphere was notably tense at the point."

Source: Page 37
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#2 - 2013-01-16 20:49:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tisisan
Klarion Sythis wrote:
To be fair, I haven't read all 113 pages yet, but it seems POSes are back down the priority list. Possibly far down the list. I'll leave this here:

"UAxDEATH disagreed and brought up an example of priorities like POSes, “you promised us those things”. Greyscale replied that coming into meetings with the mindset of CCP promising a certain feature is a fallacious, and flat-out wrong, mindset. With conversation now completely deteriorating, Unifex took control of the conversation and spoke about POSes.

Unifex stated that what CCP did was spend effort and prototype what would make a good POS system. It would, however, only affect the group of people who manage POSes. Focusing that amount of time and effort on some small singular aspect of the game and delivering only that “is what will kill the business”.

The atmosphere was notably tense at the point."

Source: Page 37


Mmm... so not only am I now facing the likelyhood of waking up one morning to find my BMW, the purpose and product of working my hands to the bone, has been stolen and replaced with a Crysler, now I also have to keep living in a smelly, leaky storage shed with 4 other guys who cant keep their paws off my stuff???

W T F.

Edit : More and more I think this "spork" approach to poses is the problem. They need to stop making one thing do two things. Give us one mechanism for industry/living space and something completely separate for sov.
WInter Borne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-01-16 20:50:02 UTC  |  Edited by: WInter Borne
Glad to know CCP is back to their old ways...

On the plus side, I can now go ahead and buy those faction towers I've been wanting since it will probably be another decade before CCP deigns to work on something so trivial as POS mechanics.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#4 - 2013-01-16 21:30:04 UTC
Only affect the group that manages POSes?
Bullshit. it affects anyone who lives at a pos.

That is not a small group. It includes most people in wormholes and a large number of people in null. It even affects some people in HS who are running indy POSes. Beyond that, an improvement could help industry everywhere. imagine being able to sell ME slots to the masses in HS.


CCP spent time to revamp Bounty Hunting. They need to revamp a much more important system: POSes. They have said on multiple occasions they are going to do it, so they need to actually step up and deliver.
WInter Borne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-01-16 21:37:31 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:
Only affect the group that manages POSes?
Bullshit. it affects anyone who lives at a pos.

That is not a small group. It includes most people in wormholes and a large number of people in null. It even affects some people in HS who are running indy POSes. Beyond that, an improvement could help industry everywhere. imagine being able to sell ME slots to the masses in HS.


CCP spent time to revamp Bounty Hunting. They need to revamp a much more important system: POSes. They have said on multiple occasions they are going to do it, so they need to actually step up and deliver.

Only been waiting about 7-8 years...whats one or two more while they handle all the REALLY IMPORTANT stuff?
Ayeson
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-01-16 21:38:47 UTC
Seems like theyre flipping the bird to everyone who lives in a POS when they decided that fixing/replacing the broken, antiquated POS system wont actually help people that live in POSes. How's that for logic?
chris elliot
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#7 - 2013-01-16 21:40:06 UTC
And as soon as they say that they are working on it they will be bombarded by people wanting details and whining.

At least now they can experiment a bit and when the first few ideas they have go **** up, which they probably will hence the term prototyping, they can just scrap it and do something else.

I would imagine they took a look at the code base for pos's and decided it would be easier to update everything around it (read all of Eve) with new code base and then drop an entirely new system into that nice pretty framework than it would be to mess with the legacy code and subsequent fallout.
WInter Borne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-01-16 21:46:38 UTC
chris elliot wrote:
And as soon as they say that they are working on it they will be bombarded by people wanting details and whining.

At least now they can experiment a bit and when the first few ideas they have go **** up, which they probably will hence the term prototyping, they can just scrap it and do something else.

I would imagine they took a look at the code base for pos's and decided it would be easier to update everything around it (read all of Eve) with new code base and then drop an entirely new system into that nice pretty framework than it would be to mess with the legacy code and subsequent fallout.

Right, cuz kicking the can down the road works so well.....
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-01-16 21:59:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Everyone in all regions of space use POSs...
Go hit Dscan in any system anywhere and youre almost guaranteed to see a dozen+ POSs.
How EXACTLY are they a "small singular aspect of the game"???

POSs are a major infrastructure of EVE.
CCP need to spend less time 'fixing' things like mining barges, bounties, making canes useless, ect. which ironically actually ARE minor niche aspects of the game and actually think about what the major things are.
Things like POSs, moon goo, ore mining are what makes EVE run and they deserve some bloody attention.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Winthorp
#10 - 2013-01-16 22:33:33 UTC
Wow, how completely disappointing that it is their view that POS shittiness only affects those that have to smash their face into a brick wall when they build them. What i find even more disappointing is the minutes show that Two Step did not step up more at this point and explain how POS's affect more than just POS operators.

They affect our whole way of life and our ability or lack thereof to grow in WH space because of the crappy platforms we have been forced to live off.

WH space forgotten yet again....
WInter Borne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-01-16 22:44:21 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
Wow, how completely disappointing that it is their view that POS shittiness only affects those that have to smash their face into a brick wall when they build them. What i find even more disappointing is the minutes show that Two Step did not step up more at this point and explain how POS's affect more than just POS operators.

They affect our whole way of life and our ability or lack thereof to grow in WH space because of the crappy platforms we have been forced to live off.

WH space forgotten yet again....

Twostep was probably too busy chewing on his tongue. After the beating he's received in the forums only to have this bullshit thrown at him... That has to be mildly frustrating.
Winthorp
#12 - 2013-01-16 22:52:29 UTC
WInter Borne wrote:
Winthorp wrote:
Wow, how completely disappointing that it is their view that POS shittiness only affects those that have to smash their face into a brick wall when they build them. What i find even more disappointing is the minutes show that Two Step did not step up more at this point and explain how POS's affect more than just POS operators.

They affect our whole way of life and our ability or lack thereof to grow in WH space because of the crappy platforms we have been forced to live off.

WH space forgotten yet again....

Twostep was probably too busy chewing on his tongue. After the beating he's received in the forums only to have this bullshit thrown at him... That has to be mildly frustrating.


But to say nothing at all and to be a lot more vocal in other areas of the minutes is well disappointing to say the least.

CCP pulling this crap and changing their mind is pretty ****** but i would have had a lot more respect for Two Step if he ballsed up at this point, he didn't.
Klarion Sythis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-01-16 22:55:26 UTC
To be fair, Two step can't win. Someone will always say he should have done more here or there but overall it sounds like he's highly involved and hard working. I don't blame him for not running again. I wouldn't.
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#14 - 2013-01-16 23:23:10 UTC
I've been waiting years for upgraded POS mechanics. The current system is a nightmare! Living out of a POS is truely a challenge, especially if you are looking to have more than a small number of players. Though the discussions of the removal of the POS shield altogether (for reasons they were unwilling to explain!) kind of changed my mind on the subject. All i wanted was a "station-like" system, where players had seperate and individual tabs. Even something as simple as making a new structure that it has storage individual to each player, or changing the current structures to do the same. I never thought docking would be something that should be possible at a POS, they seemed to suggest that it might be a good idea.

These suggested changes to the POS mechanics seemed drastic and far-reaching, and certainly didn't seem to me to be something they could slap together in a short space of time. It's almost as if they imagined what they ultimately wanted POS' to be like far down the line in the distant future. Meanwhile, we're all left just wanting a simple and fast solution that makes things simpiler.

I guess i'll just have to wait some more years. Sad

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  

Sassums
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#15 - 2013-01-16 23:26:55 UTC
I was disappointed to read the lack of information about the POS update as well.

A small part of the community? Really? Every WH corporation resides in a POS, multiple POS's at that.

I'd be safe in saying most every corp has at least 1 POS somewhere in the universe. To say its a small part of the community is a slap in the face.
Fradle
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#16 - 2013-01-16 23:27:18 UTC
Those of you going to the next fanfest bring it up! Don't let CCP sit back and just dictate to the CSMs let them know that the EVE WH players want new POSs and it's not a small group. This really is bullshit.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#17 - 2013-01-17 00:05:06 UTC
Winthorp wrote:

WH space forgotten yet again....

I love W-Space, and I have lived there for quite some time now because I enjoy it, but with regards to the issue of POSes: **** W-Space.

The POS issue affects more than just us in W-Space. POses need to be fixed for highsec, for lowsec and for nullsec as well as for wormholes, and really, many of the fixes applicable to Null, would make our lives easier, and making them less of a pain to manage in general will improve everybody's lives; beyond that, what ever happened to the suggestion that they were putting forward last year about making it scalable enough for us to make personal POSes? Those would add some new gameplay options. POSes affect all aspects of EvE in all regions, so it needs to be fixed for all of us. Before Apocypha, I lived out of nullsec in back woods systems; that's as much, if not more trouble than living out of a lower end wormhole (since many of the lower end w-space systems have statics to empire). I was also briefly in a corp that had a research POS in highsec.

Where the hell are the null bear complaints? Why didn't their CSM advocates speak up?
bubble trout
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-01-17 00:32:40 UTC  |  Edited by: bubble trout
Jack Miton wrote:
Everyone in all regions of space use POSs...
Go hit Dscan in any system anywhere and youre almost guaranteed to see a dozen+ POSs.
How EXACTLY are they a "small singular aspect of the game"???



This is an important point. Just because only a small percent of people actively manage and set up poses doesn't mean it isn't something that effects a much larger player base.

All wormholers live in poses and have to deal with the restrictions on a daily basis. Hi-sec/low-sec indy people deal with it every day. Pirates in low-sec use them, as do ratters in null. Titian bridges, moon mining.

Frankly if poses were "Done right", I'd expect more people to use them. Many people want to have a "star base", or a place to call home, but are driven away by the pure shittyness that poses are today.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-01-17 00:53:26 UTC
The one and only burning question i have at this juncture is :

Is anyone really that surprised about this?

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

DenForX
Resource Extraction Partners
#20 - 2013-01-17 01:16:22 UTC
I am more pleased that they are looking seriously at doing it right rather than a major cluster tossed out as a bone that everyone chokes on.
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