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Dev blog: Aftermath of the Mining Barge Changes (Price Indices – October 2012)

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Dave stark
#121 - 2013-01-08 00:33:55 UTC
still no comment on when they're going to actually make the ships balanced and useful for specific roles?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#122 - 2013-01-08 02:19:41 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
still no comment on when they're going to actually make the ships balanced and useful for specific roles?

NEVAR!!!!111111

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dave stark
#123 - 2013-01-14 20:15:45 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
still no comment on when they're going to actually make the ships balanced and useful for specific roles?

NEVAR!!!!111111


never :(
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#124 - 2013-01-14 20:21:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Furuoiur Aurgnet wrote:
Why do people have to suicide gank miners to begin with?
*snip*

Because if we don't the miners will completely devalue their own profession due to over-mining.

Just look at the trends since the barge buff.
This is nonsense. A big war or bunch of super cap construction arrays will chew through quite a bit of excess minerals. AND the loss of minerals from the removal of drone droppings has got to be filled in somehow.

Furthermore, those in the north with nearly uncontested access to technetium moons (and possibly exhumer BPOs) have the potential to profit greatly from the market churn of those tech 2 mining barges. Your ganks are creating more of a market for the materials that you control.

So, any noble bullshit about helping the market and greater game economy through ganks, falls on deaf ears. That is not to say that ganks are not legitimate gameplay -- they are completely legit. But let's be truthful about things.


Darth Gustav wrote:
Economics wrote:
Value = Demand / Supply


As supply goes up, value goes down. The only way to counteract this trend is to either increase demand considerably or to reduce available supply.

High-sec ice miners want neither to happen. They want profits now. This can be seen through market analysis of all the ice products. They want this profit so badly that they're not only willing to ruin ice mining for future miners by creating an overwhelming glut of ice products, but also at the expense of their own rate of pay. Their activity has literally cost them the majority of their actual ISK paychecks.

This is simple economics which is beyond the "peaceful" world view of the bot-aspirant miner. By asking to not be interfered with, you are asking players and CCP to directly screw over players who haven't started playing Eve yet but who may wish to engage in mining as a career.

Yet we're the griefers...in a spaceship macroeconomics game...good one. Roll
And yet people are willing to pay the higher prices for ships in order to PvP or partake in other activities. It is not clear that your scenario of greater supply is taking place. And if it is, buyers are willing to shoulder the higher prices up to a point.

Utter bullshit when it comes to the 'noble' practice of ganking. Call it for what it is: griefing and profiteering from the market churn on tech 2 products. Again, those are legitimate activities in EVE, simply not of the noble type.

Tell me again how mining ice AFK for 23.5 hours a day is good for the future of the ice mining profession. Roll

EDIT: Clearly the prices of ice products are pretty much flatlining. You seem to think my statements (and economics in general) indicate that cost will increase with supply. Your post has an awful lot of words and opinions for being predicated on false pretenses.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Dave stark
#125 - 2013-01-14 22:03:23 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

Tell me again how mining ice AFK for 23.5 hours a day is good for the future of the ice mining profession. Roll

EDIT: Clearly the prices of ice products are pretty much flatlining. You seem to think my statements (and economics in general) indicate that cost will increase with supply. Your post has an awful lot of words and opinions for being predicated on false pretenses.


ice and minerals aren't quite the same.
sure mining ice is no where near as lucrative as it was. however what happens when minerals follow the same trend? ships get cheaper because when minerals get cheaper the industrialists can undercut each other and keep the same profit margins so our purchasing power stays the same so frankly we don't give a damn if mineral prices go up or down. not to mention due to the drone region changes mining is more lucrative now than it's ever been. hell, even plex should go down when minerals go down, check the thread in the MD forum for more on that one.

yeah, more miners means mineral prices going down, but a miner's purchasing power is pretty much a constant rate that doesn't change much when prices go up or down. hence, it's really irrelevant if we devalue our own profession because it's going to take 10 hours to make enough isk for it whether trit is 6 isk per unit, or 3 isk per unit, give or take. look at the price of a charon, and an orca. when trit was 3 isk/unit charons were about 800m and orcas about 350m. now trit is at 6isk/unit and charons are 1.6bn or so, and orcas are close to 700m. the time in hours to mine enough isk to purchase these ships is unchanged even though prices have changed.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#126 - 2013-01-15 10:10:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Dave stark wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Tell me again how mining ice AFK for 23.5 hours a day is good for the future of the ice mining profession. Roll

EDIT: Clearly the prices of ice products are pretty much flatlining. You seem to think my statements (and economics in general) indicate that cost will increase with supply. Your post has an awful lot of words and opinions for being predicated on false pretenses.


ice and minerals aren't quite the same.
sure mining ice is no where near as lucrative as it was. however what happens when minerals follow the same trend? ships get cheaper because when minerals get cheaper the industrialists can undercut each other and keep the same profit margins so our purchasing power stays the same so frankly we don't give a damn if mineral prices go up or down. not to mention due to the drone region changes mining is more lucrative now than it's ever been. hell, even plex should go down when minerals go down, check the thread in the MD forum for more on that one.

yeah, more miners means mineral prices going down, but a miner's purchasing power is pretty much a constant rate that doesn't change much when prices go up or down. hence, it's really irrelevant if we devalue our own profession because it's going to take 10 hours to make enough isk for it whether trit is 6 isk per unit, or 3 isk per unit, give or take. look at the price of a charon, and an orca. when trit was 3 isk/unit charons were about 800m and orcas about 350m. now trit is at 6isk/unit and charons are 1.6bn or so, and orcas are close to 700m. the time in hours to mine enough isk to purchase these ships is unchanged even though prices have changed.


Tell me again how high-sec miners don't care if PLEX prices go up when they're earning peanuts for mining.

Minerals or ice, it doesn't matter. Devaluing your own profession is stupid.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Dave stark
#127 - 2013-01-16 21:03:48 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Tell me again how high-sec miners don't care if PLEX prices go up when they're earning peanuts for mining.

Minerals or ice, it doesn't matter. Devaluing your own profession is stupid.


because see the MD forum about the post that shows a link between plex and mineral prices.
devaluing our profession means nothing since our purchasing power stays the same. we have to mine for 10 hours to buy item x regardless of whether trit is 500 isk per unit, or 5 isk per unit.

tell me again why we should give a **** if we devalue our profession?
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#128 - 2013-01-17 17:56:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Dave Stark wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Tell me again how high-sec miners don't care if PLEX prices go up when they're earning peanuts for mining.

Minerals or ice, it doesn't matter. Devaluing your own profession is stupid.


because see the MD forum about the post that shows a link between plex and mineral prices.
devaluing our profession means nothing since our purchasing power stays the same. we have to mine for 10 hours to buy item x regardless of whether trit is 500 isk per unit, or 5 isk per unit.

tell me again why we should give a **** if we devalue our profession?

Think about the newbies.

Edit:

Also, Trit is up but ice is down.

So you have to mine ice longer now than you used to in order to earn enough isk to buy the same spaceship. Much longer.

It must be hard to see the world in only one shade of only one color.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Dave stark
#129 - 2013-01-17 23:14:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Darth Gustav wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Tell me again how high-sec miners don't care if PLEX prices go up when they're earning peanuts for mining.

Minerals or ice, it doesn't matter. Devaluing your own profession is stupid.


because see the MD forum about the post that shows a link between plex and mineral prices.
devaluing our profession means nothing since our purchasing power stays the same. we have to mine for 10 hours to buy item x regardless of whether trit is 500 isk per unit, or 5 isk per unit.

tell me again why we should give a **** if we devalue our profession?

Think about the newbies.

Edit:

Also, Trit is up but ice is down.

So you have to mine ice longer now than you used to in order to earn enough isk to buy the same spaceship. Much longer.

It must be hard to see the world in only one shade of only one color.


miners don't care about ice, we leave that for the bots.
also, what does this have to do with newbies in the slightest?
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#130 - 2013-01-19 21:33:17 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Tell me again how high-sec miners don't care if PLEX prices go up when they're earning peanuts for mining.

Minerals or ice, it doesn't matter. Devaluing your own profession is stupid.


because see the MD forum about the post that shows a link between plex and mineral prices.
devaluing our profession means nothing since our purchasing power stays the same. we have to mine for 10 hours to buy item x regardless of whether trit is 500 isk per unit, or 5 isk per unit.

tell me again why we should give a **** if we devalue our profession?

Think about the newbies.

Edit:

Also, Trit is up but ice is down.

So you have to mine ice longer now than you used to in order to earn enough isk to buy the same spaceship. Much longer.

It must be hard to see the world in only one shade of only one color.


miners don't care about ice, we leave that for the bots.
also, what does this have to do with newbies in the slightest?


Devalue the profession of ice mining enough and newbies lose a potential career path.

Ice mining and mining are inseparable. As long as there is an eternal teat upon which the Mackinaws may suckle, there will be disincentive for people to mine minerals and any argument you may have will be skewed irreconcilably.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#131 - 2013-01-28 14:46:53 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

Devalue the profession of ice mining enough and newbies lose a potential career path.

Ice mining and mining are inseparable. As long as there is an eternal teat upon which the Mackinaws may suckle, there will be disincentive for people to mine minerals and any argument you may have will be skewed irreconcilably.



dude what?

if the teat that macks suckle upon is ice, people wont mine trit?

have you even read your post?

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#132 - 2013-01-30 21:42:38 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Devalue the profession of ice mining enough and newbies lose a potential career path.

Ice mining and mining are inseparable. As long as there is an eternal teat upon which the Mackinaws may suckle, there will be disincentive for people to mine minerals and any argument you may have will be skewed irreconcilably.



dude what?

if the teat that macks suckle upon is ice, people wont mine trit?

have you even read your post?


Miners don't want to pay attention. It's why they mine.

Mining at a rock that never depletes is vastly easier than mining at any number of depletable rocks.

Seems pretty self-explanatory. Market data backs it up.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#133 - 2013-03-14 14:31:45 UTC
Nice to know CCP doesn't care about how useless they have made insurance since this change....until they change the scrap rates, insurance will not be used...on these and any of the ships they have altered the build requirements for.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#134 - 2013-03-14 15:38:14 UTC
asteroidjas wrote:
Nice to know CCP doesn't care about how useless they have made insurance since this change....until they change the scrap rates, insurance will not be used...on these and any of the ships they have altered the build requirements for.



Not such a bad thing. Insurance being a net isk Faucet, after all.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#135 - 2013-03-19 13:51:37 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:

Not such a bad thing. Insurance being a net isk Faucet, after all.

Insurance hasn't been a Faucet since they tied it to mineral costs like over a year ago....since then you've had to spend more than you get to buy a ship and insure it "fully". But now insurance rates are for what the ships were before their build requirements doubled, tripled or more...so really, i guess its just about as good as insurance for a T2 ship...since that only yields an appropriate amount for the T1 base ship.