These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Remove Attribute Implants and watch 0.0 catch on fire

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2013-01-16 17:36:17 UTC
Err, idk about implants, but medical clone price scaling is a bit ******** honestly, Eve is the only game that punishes players for being loyal to the game.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-01-16 17:41:18 UTC
Tom Gerard wrote:
Nightshade Mary wrote:
Not sure if the OP is a troll or not..

More value to sitting in a station gathering skill points?

If it is an ISK issue, why not put cheap implants in your adventurous clone and keep the +5s for the time when you can't play and are stuck in station anyway?



It is not an ISK issue, you can't buy SP with ISK, and you can get ISK without ever undocking... therefore SP is vastly more valuable than ISK.

When you look at the "value" of a character it is entirely about his SP, his wallet is meaningless. The "winners" of EVE are those people closest to the 2700sp/hr. pin.

CCP rewards me with the highest possible SP accrual because I don't undock.

Seems like this flies in the face of the expected Risk v Reward.

But you were the one that wrote the OP.

You were the one that said you wont undock because of the cost of your implants.

If it wasn't an issue of isk, you'd undock.


Sounds to me like the one guy was on the money.
Take away whatever he says is holding him back and he'll find another excuse.

Oh wait, it's not he isk, it's the SP/h.



I don't have a problem with undocking with mine.

Would it help if I purchased you a few sets?
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#43 - 2013-01-16 17:47:51 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Hir Miriel wrote:
Thanks Malcanis.

You mention that the +4/+3 major/minor attribute setup costs the all +5 player about 120 SP an hour.

Which is as far as I can see, priceless. There is no way to buy that, or catch it up.

Unless, perhaps, some sort of loot drop or prize that gave a one time SP boost was connected to the activity. In this case the activity would be hanging out in the badlands of space, doing something presumably violent. The prize/drop could be one use implants or some such.

Of course the trouble with that is the min/max style and whichever is best getting farmed to death, botted and then nerfed to death.

But players that are running risks out in the wilds are also paying the opportunity cost of less SP Gain.


The error lies in assuming that skillpoints are the only form of advancement that matters.


Malcanis,

As a form of advancement, a high score if you will, a few in EVE come to mind; skillpoints, isk, kills, security status, standings and there are probably more. For these forums it would be post counts and Likes if you will. And of course votes for an election are a measure.

To me, skills are becoming more apparent as items that take a lot of time to get. So implants are looming as more important as an aid to achieving skill based goals. And having implants in, increases the risk I carry around. Especially as I'm not a great PvPer.

Jump Clones would seem to be the answer when I get around to having 8 Standing with the NPC corporations or have friends with clone vats.

That may take a while.

So for now, for me, avoiding risk is the wisest course of action. If not the funnest. However mining does allow a lot of forumming, silver linings and all that.

Just wanted to walk through some of my thinking on the issue. Thanks for your response by the way.

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#44 - 2013-01-16 17:48:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
To look at it another way, which is the better use of your time?

Flying a frigate and having a heck of a good time doing it...

or flying a cruiser and being afraid to undock because it might slow down your advancement to the next bigger ship to sit around in?

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#45 - 2013-01-16 17:50:30 UTC
Hir Miriel wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Hir Miriel wrote:
Thanks Malcanis.

You mention that the +4/+3 major/minor attribute setup costs the all +5 player about 120 SP an hour.

Which is as far as I can see, priceless. There is no way to buy that, or catch it up.

Unless, perhaps, some sort of loot drop or prize that gave a one time SP boost was connected to the activity. In this case the activity would be hanging out in the badlands of space, doing something presumably violent. The prize/drop could be one use implants or some such.

Of course the trouble with that is the min/max style and whichever is best getting farmed to death, botted and then nerfed to death.

But players that are running risks out in the wilds are also paying the opportunity cost of less SP Gain.


The error lies in assuming that skillpoints are the only form of advancement that matters.


Malcanis,

As a form of advancement, a high score if you will, a few in EVE come to mind; skillpoints, isk, kills, security status, standings and there are probably more. For these forums it would be post counts and Likes if you will. And of course votes for an election are a measure.

To me, skills are becoming more apparent as items that take a lot of time to get. So implants are looming as more important as an aid to achieving skill based goals. And having implants in, increases the risk I carry around. Especially as I'm not a great PvPer.

Jump Clones would seem to be the answer when I get around to having 8 Standing with the NPC corporations or have friends with clone vats.

That may take a while.

So for now, for me, avoiding risk is the wisest course of action. If not the funnest. However mining does allow a lot of forumming, silver linings and all that.

Just wanted to walk through some of my thinking on the issue. Thanks for your response by the way.



You might consider that there are several corps around that you can join for a day to get your jump clones (because they have the necessary high standings).

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#46 - 2013-01-16 17:58:02 UTC
Thanks for the tip Ranger 1.

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#47 - 2013-01-16 18:03:16 UTC
Hir Miriel wrote:
Thanks for the tip Ranger 1.

No worries.

I don't have a link for you handy (I'm at work) but a search should turn one up... or if someone has a corp name handy to drop in here several people might benefit. Smile

(Occasionally they "advertise" themselves in the various forums.)

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#48 - 2013-01-16 18:07:35 UTC
Whether we agree with it or not, for some other people, implant and clone upgrade costs ARE barriers to pvp.

It's not for me, I lost a clone with a Crystal set and some price hardwirings (PASHANS, that's right, im rich biatch), but I had fun doing it, and generally I'm in the "don't risk what you don't want to lose" camp.

BUT, EVE is a game built around space ships and space ships require character skills to fly, and the current implant scheme forces poorer players to choose between getting to the next new exciting level of space ships OR going out and having some fun screwing with people.

Ditto the Clone Upgrades (a seperate but related issue to implants), While i don't mind paying the 30+ mil I have to on a couple characters, It does get tedious in a hot fight where you might die multiple times in bubbles (and get podded or have to consider self destructing to get back to a station for another ship and thus back into the fight).

I stopped flying Dictors because after a big fight in Delve where I had to go reship several times I realized I'd spent 200 mil on damn clone upgrades alone and STILL lost skill points (Jump Cal freaking 5 of all things) because the last time I rushed back out to fight I forget to upgrade :( .

I don't know how to fix it (or even if "fixing it" would not cause bigger problems), but I can say without hesitation, the current clone and implant mechanics ARE big potential barriers to PVP, and barriers to pvp should be low in a game about PVP.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2013-01-16 18:13:57 UTC
I agree roll learning implants in just like with learning skills.
Then maybe for fun give the pirate implants a negative attribute score, so that they drop you down to where they are now.
Power at a price basically.
I could see it being a lot more fun this way as then people would be more likely to pvp without worrying about pod loss.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#50 - 2013-01-16 19:04:57 UTC
Ha ha implants. As a medium SP space bum, I consider everything above +3 to be a scam. The clone mechanics just suck, they make no sense, and indeed punish loyal players and reward having alts. It only makes sense from a business standpoint (sink + subs), not from a gameplay viewpoint. Remember those games where you lost X percentage of your wealth when you died? It always was an incentive for me to turn credits into assets ASAP in those type of games. Just as with most level 4 skills taking a day and just one bit, I'm to much of a critical consumer to be lured into buying expensive implants or grind them with LP.
Nick Asir
Doomheim
#51 - 2013-01-16 19:06:55 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
You could remove implants, and replace with a legal attribute boosters. With a reduced cost being that it's a consumable means less risk if flying with it active.


Why not this? Sounds like a great idea to me. Would make smuggling a much bigger part of the game.
Rexxorr
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2013-01-16 19:07:34 UTC
The most valuable attribute of a char is the amount of skill points it has. Learning implants is the number one thing you can do to increase its value. Over all learning implants are a hassle, and yes they help to prevent pvp. Jump clones with a 24 hour cool-down are also a hassle.

Removing learning implants would be a good move, it will encourage more people to pvp. How many more ? probably none really knows, but I know of at least one.
Nytak
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2013-01-16 19:51:39 UTC
Isn't this one of the issues addressed by Jump Clones? I keep the implants I'm comfortable spending cash on in one clone.. If I'm going someplace where I may very well get podded, well, then I hop into my 0 implant clone and have my fun worry free.
Iosue
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#54 - 2013-01-16 20:06:18 UTC
Nick Asir wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
You could remove implants, and replace with a legal attribute boosters. With a reduced cost being that it's a consumable means less risk if flying with it active.


Why not this? Sounds like a great idea to me. Would make smuggling a much bigger part of the game.


because then you would end up with lots of people holed up in their stations with piles of boosters to ensure they get the max sp all the time.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#55 - 2013-01-16 20:18:37 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
When a single +5 would buy me 3 Assault Frig hulls, something is out of whack.
Unfortunately, the price of both the +5 implant and the hull are market-driven, so little can be done about that.

LP store cost (65000LP, 65M isk) is a pretty hard floor for the +5 implants, it isn't entirely market driven.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#56 - 2013-01-16 20:34:40 UTC
It's already easy and cheap to have a 'throwaway' jump clone with basic implants for venturing into situations where you may be podded, so that wouldn't really affect anything.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#57 - 2013-01-16 20:37:41 UTC
Or how about CCP doesn't remove attribute implants, you get yourself infomorph psychology I (shouldn't take too long with dem +5s ya gots), then proceed to head into null sec with your clone that doesn't have implants.

It's silly that you won't undock because your scared to lose implants then ask for them to be taken out of the game. Take the implants out of your head instead and solve you're own problem.

Either way, removing implants won't "set null on fire". Removing implants will make Eve a more forgiving environment, where you have less to lose when you put it on the line.
rofflesausage
State War Academy
Caldari State
#58 - 2013-01-16 20:49:41 UTC
One of the issues with implants is that they don't expire - a lot of people will stick them in their head and are paranoid about losing them. Having an entire clone dedicated to having +5's in that you jump to when not about is such a crappy mechanic. There is no risk, just reward.

Make implants cheaper, but give them a finite lifetime.

What's a +4 these days? 20M? For infinite use if you don't PvP? Insane.

Make them 5M, but last 30 days.

Not only does it put the thought of them being already lost in peoples mind, it means ISK is moved around for them more often. Oh, and it's another reason for people to to login.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2013-01-16 21:04:24 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Hir Miriel wrote:
Thanks Malcanis.

You mention that the +4/+3 major/minor attribute setup costs the all +5 player about 120 SP an hour.

Which is as far as I can see, priceless. There is no way to buy that, or catch it up.

Unless, perhaps, some sort of loot drop or prize that gave a one time SP boost was connected to the activity. In this case the activity would be hanging out in the badlands of space, doing something presumably violent. The prize/drop could be one use implants or some such.

Of course the trouble with that is the min/max style and whichever is best getting farmed to death, botted and then nerfed to death.

But players that are running risks out in the wilds are also paying the opportunity cost of less SP Gain.


The error lies in assuming that skillpoints are the only form of advancement that matters.


Indeed, people get WAY too hung up on skill point accrual.

Gentlemen, you really need to ask yourself why you play EvE.

Is it to have fun, adventures, and generally be highly entertained for your time spent?
...or is it to acquire skill points... a dull set of numbers that lets you get into more ships (that you sit around in being bored because to risk it might slow down your boring skill point accumulation)?

Seriously, stop worrying about skill point acquisition. Start enjoying yourself.

Oddly enough for some of us expanding the range of ships we can fly and effectively use is a big part of the fun of the game. For that group, of which I am a part, SP accrual is something that is often worth considering. You are right in that the number of SP itself is meaningless, but what it enables is far from meaningless for many.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#60 - 2013-01-16 21:06:06 UTC
Iosue wrote:
Nick Asir wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
You could remove implants, and replace with a legal attribute boosters. With a reduced cost being that it's a consumable means less risk if flying with it active.

Why not this? Sounds like a great idea to me. Would make smuggling a much bigger part of the game.

because then you would end up with lots of people holed up in their stations with piles of boosters to ensure they get the max sp all the time.

Sounds like players successfully interacting with the game mechanics.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?