These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Let's talk about the Dragoon
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#21 - 2013-01-01 17:12:20 UTC
The problem with Dragoon is that is can't decide what it wants to be. Is it a drone ship? A drain ship? A turret ship? A missile ship? It tires to do everything at once and, not surprisingly, doesn't do very well at any of them.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Garr Earthbender
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2013-01-01 17:24:27 UTC
It's most definitely a drone ship with the ability to use extended range neuts. The guns you put on there are an added bonus.

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#23 - 2013-01-01 17:58:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Katran Luftschreck
Fair enough, but consider this: Skills.

All destroyers need destroyer skill, so that's moot. What else do they need?

Well if you're using a Coercer you'll need turret and... well, we're done. Corax? Missiles and... we're done. Algos? Turret and drones, though Gallente start with drone skills, right?

But with a Dragoon you'll need turret, missile and drone skills... and that's assuming that you're ignoring the drain stuff.

Most people would rather just spend that extra SP moving on to a decent cruiser. And I don't blame them.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Garr Earthbender
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-01-01 18:33:35 UTC
Fair enough. I'm cross trained enough that it works for me though.

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper
Taoist Dragon
School of Applied Knowledge
#25 - 2013-01-01 21:55:48 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Fair enough, but consider this: Skills.

All destroyers need destroyer skill, so that's moot. What else do they need?

Well if you're using a Coercer you'll need turret and... well, we're done. Corax? Missiles and... we're done. Algos? Turret and drones, though Gallente start with drone skills, right?

But with a Dragoon you'll need turret, missile and drone skills... and that's assuming that you're ignoring the drain stuff.

Most people would rather just spend that extra SP moving on to a decent cruiser. And I don't blame them.


This is basically a dessy in the amarr Drone/nuet/ewar hull line up

Crucifier -> Dragoon -> Arbi -> Pilgrim/curse

Amarr is definately a good race for drone combat and the Arbi hull lineup is one of the best drone hull lines in game. Yes it requires a lot of skills to decent lvls to get effective use out of it but then again so does the entire minnie line up really.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#26 - 2013-01-07 13:18:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Fair enough, but consider this: Skills.

All destroyers need destroyer skill, so that's moot. What else do they need?

Well if you're using a Coercer you'll need turret and... well, we're done. Corax? Missiles and... we're done. Algos? Turret and drones, though Gallente start with drone skills, right?

But with a Dragoon you'll need turret, missile and drone skills... and that's assuming that you're ignoring the drain stuff.

Most people would rather just spend that extra SP moving on to a decent cruiser. And I don't blame them.


Except a Cruiser is not a Destroyer. A Cruiser is more expensive and less mobile than a Destroyer. A Cruiser cannot fit into a Small FW Plex.

Also you're forgetting one thing...

Not everyone cares about number optimization.

Some people just love a variety.

I'm taking a Dragoon out for a spin right now. 250 DPS and almost 10k EHP... with sick neut range... yeah I'm gonna give it a try.

ALSO: It's hard for a frigate to AB away when it can't turn it's AB on to begin with.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#27 - 2013-01-07 14:03:24 UTC
Why is everyone trying to put small guns on the dragoon? The neuts and NOS can save you from a faster ship! Cap them out, and kill them. What you need is a long point and MWD. I use a 400mm plate fit with only neut and nos in the highs. They burn in to you and you kill their tank and let your drones do the punishment.

It works well if you dont get overwhelmed. The neuts help a ton!
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#28 - 2013-01-07 14:19:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Metal Icarus
double post sorry
Ch'vonne Skjem-Apol
Hathor Federation
#29 - 2013-01-16 04:59:34 UTC
Metal Icarus wrote:
Why is everyone trying to put small guns on the dragoon? The neuts and NOS can save you from a faster ship! Cap them out, and kill them. What you need is a long point and MWD. I use a 400mm plate fit with only neut and nos in the highs. They burn in to you and you kill their tank and let your drones do the punishment.

It works well if you dont get overwhelmed. The neuts help a ton!


This sounds like an interesting fit. Has anyone been able to use it successfully outside of EFT? I'm giving serious consideration to going down this path. It's "flexibility" of armament is daunting to a n00b like myself (SP-wise). But I'm up for the challenge and pretty patient.

At least death will be glorious!
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-01-16 05:22:10 UTC
The way is see this ships neut bonus, is not as an offensive weapon but as a defensive one, lets say you kite with it (with 3 polycarbs you get decent speed/agility), suddenly you mess up and get scrammed by a mwdatron, you just have 3 neuts preheated and pretty much alpha his cap, making you able to run free once more!
Ares Desideratus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2013-01-16 06:42:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Ares Desideratus
Anyone bad-mouthing the Dragoon must not be using it very well. It's like a Vengeance / Sentinel hybrid in a destroyer hull.

Just make sure you can get the fight in scram range and suck their cap dry (pretty easy with 3 energy neutralizers), and at that point I don't care what ship you're fighting the winner is gonna be Dragoon via unholy beat-down.

War Dragoon!
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#32 - 2013-01-16 08:02:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Personally I think the Dragoon is a missed opportunity, apart from it looking too familiar (where the other races have a real cool looking one) the nos/neut bonus is silly in my eyes as it adds nothing to the ship. Whether you have 6km on your nos/neut or 12 really makes no difference, it's still in scram/web range effectively and it'll kill frigates regardless of that bonus and it'll die to cruisers regardless of that bonus. It doesn't change or contribute in any way to a different or specific strategy. Especially not as it only has two midslots and thus effectively can't control range and is slow as fck.
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-01-16 14:17:25 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Personally I think the Dragoon is a missed opportunity, apart from it looking too familiar (where the other races have a real cool looking one) the nos/neut bonus is silly in my eyes as it adds nothing to the ship. Whether you have 6km on your nos/neut or 12 really makes no difference, it's still in scram/web range effectively and it'll kill frigates regardless of that bonus and it'll die to cruisers regardless of that bonus. It doesn't change or contribute in any way to a different or specific strategy. Especially not as it only has two midslots and thus effectively can't control range and is slow as fck.


It will allow you to make a sitting duck of kiting frigs. no ship without MWD or AB is going to outrun you no matter how slow you are as you will be able to use your prop mod and they, will not.

Seems pretty simple to me?
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#34 - 2013-01-16 14:53:34 UTC
Riedle wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Personally I think the Dragoon is a missed opportunity, apart from it looking too familiar (where the other races have a real cool looking one) the nos/neut bonus is silly in my eyes as it adds nothing to the ship. Whether you have 6km on your nos/neut or 12 really makes no difference, it's still in scram/web range effectively and it'll kill frigates regardless of that bonus and it'll die to cruisers regardless of that bonus. It doesn't change or contribute in any way to a different or specific strategy. Especially not as it only has two midslots and thus effectively can't control range and is slow as fck.


It will allow you to make a sitting duck of kiting frigs. no ship without MWD or AB is going to outrun you no matter how slow you are as you will be able to use your prop mod and they, will not.

Seems pretty simple to me?


A true kiting frig will be outside the 12km neut range, a scram kiting frig will get eaten by the drones anyway and the chance of that frig landing his scram while not accidentally coasting into normal small neut range at the beginning of the fight is rather small. On paper the bonus sounds cool, in reality it doesn't add much.
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2013-01-16 15:04:18 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Riedle wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Personally I think the Dragoon is a missed opportunity, apart from it looking too familiar (where the other races have a real cool looking one) the nos/neut bonus is silly in my eyes as it adds nothing to the ship. Whether you have 6km on your nos/neut or 12 really makes no difference, it's still in scram/web range effectively and it'll kill frigates regardless of that bonus and it'll die to cruisers regardless of that bonus. It doesn't change or contribute in any way to a different or specific strategy. Especially not as it only has two midslots and thus effectively can't control range and is slow as fck.


It will allow you to make a sitting duck of kiting frigs. no ship without MWD or AB is going to outrun you no matter how slow you are as you will be able to use your prop mod and they, will not.

Seems pretty simple to me?


A true kiting frig will be outside the 12km neut range, a scram kiting frig will get eaten by the drones anyway and the chance of that frig landing his scram while not accidentally coasting into normal small neut range at the beginning of the fight is rather small. On paper the bonus sounds cool, in reality it doesn't add much.


Outside of 12km your drones will out dps any kiting frig anyways v0v
Ch'vonne Skjem-Apol
Hathor Federation
#36 - 2013-01-16 16:59:01 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
The way is see this ships neut bonus, is not as an offensive weapon but as a defensive one, lets say you kite with it (with 3 polycarbs you get decent speed/agility), suddenly you mess up and get scrammed by a mwdatron, you just have 3 neuts preheated and pretty much alpha his cap, making you able to run free once more!


This is exactly how I envisioned using it.

Is it worth it to throw in a TD?

Can this be fitted to speed tank?
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#37 - 2013-01-16 17:00:14 UTC
Riedle wrote:
Outside of 12km your drones will out dps any kiting frig anyways v0v


So, tell me, what's the use of the nos/neut range bonus then :)
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2013-01-16 18:02:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Riedle
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Riedle wrote:
Outside of 12km your drones will out dps any kiting frig anyways v0v


So, tell me, what's the use of the nos/neut range bonus then :)


Well there would be certain frig and AS fits that just outside of the normal neut range they could out dps you and have a fit that can chew through your drones. ie: closer range.

I also think these frigs would be more common than the kiting types that would engage you. my guess, 80% of the frigs that are willing to engage you are going to try and get under your guns - ie: close to med frig range

So thinking of it that way, the extra neut range is of benefit. Do you not agree?
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#39 - 2013-01-16 19:30:47 UTC
Ch'vonne Skjem-Apol wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
The way is see this ships neut bonus, is not as an offensive weapon but as a defensive one, lets say you kite with it (with 3 polycarbs you get decent speed/agility), suddenly you mess up and get scrammed by a mwdatron, you just have 3 neuts preheated and pretty much alpha his cap, making you able to run free once more!


This is exactly how I envisioned using it.

Is it worth it to throw in a TD?

Can this be fitted to speed tank?


TD isn't a good idea because you only have 2 mids. You will need a prop mod, and you can't solo pvp without a point. Therefor you are forced to use a point+prop. Unless you intend only to use it in gangs.

I also don't think you could speed tank. As a dessy it has a higher sig radius than a frigate, and it is pretty slow to start with (slower than most cruisers, I believe). I don't think you'd have much luck trying to speed tank it.

Don't let me stop you from trying, I just don't think it would work.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#40 - 2013-01-16 20:43:54 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Ch'vonne Skjem-Apol wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
The way is see this ships neut bonus, is not as an offensive weapon but as a defensive one, lets say you kite with it (with 3 polycarbs you get decent speed/agility), suddenly you mess up and get scrammed by a mwdatron, you just have 3 neuts preheated and pretty much alpha his cap, making you able to run free once more!


This is exactly how I envisioned using it.

Is it worth it to throw in a TD?

Can this be fitted to speed tank?


TD isn't a good idea because you only have 2 mids. You will need a prop mod, and you can't solo pvp without a point. Therefor you are forced to use a point+prop. Unless you intend only to use it in gangs.

I also don't think you could speed tank. As a dessy it has a higher sig radius than a frigate, and it is pretty slow to start with (slower than most cruisers, I believe). I don't think you'd have much luck trying to speed tank it.

Don't let me stop you from trying, I just don't think it would work.



This. From what I have seen, the Dragoon can make a decent tank, and a good active tank even, but it is not a fast ship.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Previous page123Next page