These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Rebuttal: Nerf Without Cause: Jump Drives

First post First post
Author
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#141 - 2013-01-16 08:54:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Zloco Crendraven
Lol at nerfing to 15%. The idea is to make subcap fleets project actually faster than those with jump calibration.
Use capitals for tactical attacks when defending your home or attacking someone else sovereignty (foothold and system by system progressing. Not jumping from your HQ to enemies in like 15 mins).

Leave the JF (with a bonus maybe) like they are now. Leave black ops like they are now and they d have some more meaning.

If u want fun roams like all normal players do, dont sit whole nights on Titans. There are enough of targets in NPC nullsec to have fun with. And If u dont find any targets closer than u should maybe rethink of blueing 90% of Nullsec

The right change is to leave the jump ranges like they are now, but the further u jump the bigger is the cooldwon timer. The right balance d be if u jump to a max range u get a CD of 1 hour. That will keep some fun for the smaller entities in jumping on preys, but will prevent the insane force projection that would come on those capitals from dozens jumps away.

Titans should ve both the CD and the mass limitations and + to that Titans would need to jump with the pack. But i d add to Titans more meaningful bonuses and maybe some other functions.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.

Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#142 - 2013-01-16 08:54:51 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Now here's the part where you explain what's actually wrong with that.

Which is what?

You've basically just said "jump drives can take you farther than gates".
Naturally as a consequence of that you can indeed travel faster than subcaps.
But you haven't explained why that's actually a problem.

You do a lot of dancing my friend. I will leave you be for now. You seem to still have your head stuck in the sand like an ostrich. P
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#143 - 2013-01-16 09:02:08 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Now here's the part where you explain what's actually wrong with that.

Which is what?

You've basically just said "jump drives can take you farther than gates".
Naturally as a consequence of that you can indeed travel faster than subcaps.
But you haven't explained why that's actually a problem.

You do a lot of dancing my friend. I will leave you be for now. You seem to still have your head stuck in the sand like an ostrich. P

You're the one who's dancing, dude.
Jump drives were designed to do exactly what you're describing. So you have yet to actually explain what the problem is.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#144 - 2013-01-16 09:04:35 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
If u want fun roams like all normal players do, dont sit whole nights on Titans. There are enough of targets in NPC nullsec to have fun with. And If u dont find any targets closer than u should maybe rethink of blueing 90% of Nullsec

How about you actually understand what you're talking about before you comment?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#145 - 2013-01-16 09:07:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Zloco Crendraven
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
If u want fun roams like all normal players do, dont sit whole nights on Titans. There are enough of targets in NPC nullsec to have fun with. And If u dont find any targets closer than u should maybe rethink of blueing 90% of Nullsec

How about you actually understand what you're talking about before you comment?


So u agree on the other points? Nice!!! Dont dance mate, dont!

And btw i am having like 5 times moar roams and fights x month than my quite few friends in CFC. Everyone is bored now when there is no any deployment and they barely log. And the main reason is sitting on titans and roams every other year.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#146 - 2013-01-16 09:09:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
How about we remove every ship in the game except for Noobships and have a spaceship shooty game that depends on actual pilot skill instead of trained skills. No wait, that too would cause nothing but butthurt.


Those games already exist, they're called black prohecy and and.... dunno, forgott the other one, it's still in open beta afaik. they're insignifficant and boring anyway.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#147 - 2013-01-16 09:30:24 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
If u want fun roams like all normal players do, dont sit whole nights on Titans. There are enough of targets in NPC nullsec to have fun with. And If u dont find any targets closer than u should maybe rethink of blueing 90% of Nullsec

How about you actually understand what you're talking about before you comment?


So u agree on the other points? Nice!!! Dont dance mate, dont!

And btw i am having like 5 times moar roams and fights x month than my quite few friends in CFC. Everyone is bored now when there is no any deployment and they barely log. And the main reason is sitting on titans and roams every other year.

I don't know who you're talking to, but I have no shortage of roams.
Keep spinning though.
And no I don't agree with your other points, I just didn't think your post was worth the effort of addressing them.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#148 - 2013-01-16 09:35:30 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
If u want fun roams like all normal players do, dont sit whole nights on Titans. There are enough of targets in NPC nullsec to have fun with. And If u dont find any targets closer than u should maybe rethink of blueing 90% of Nullsec

How about you actually understand what you're talking about before you comment?


So u agree on the other points? Nice!!! Dont dance mate, dont!

And btw i am having like 5 times moar roams and fights x month than my quite few friends in CFC. Everyone is bored now when there is no any deployment and they barely log. And the main reason is sitting on titans and roams every other year.

I don't know who you're talking to, but I have no shortage of roams.
Keep spinning though.
And no I don't agree with your other points, I just didn't think your post was worth the effort of addressing them.


haha of course Roll...delusional

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#149 - 2013-01-16 09:47:04 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
If u want fun roams like all normal players do, dont sit whole nights on Titans. There are enough of targets in NPC nullsec to have fun with. And If u dont find any targets closer than u should maybe rethink of blueing 90% of Nullsec

How about you actually understand what you're talking about before you comment?


So u agree on the other points? Nice!!! Dont dance mate, dont!

And btw i am having like 5 times moar roams and fights x month than my quite few friends in CFC. Everyone is bored now when there is no any deployment and they barely log. And the main reason is sitting on titans and roams every other year.

I don't know who you're talking to, but I have no shortage of roams.
Keep spinning though.
And no I don't agree with your other points, I just didn't think your post was worth the effort of addressing them.


haha of course Roll...delusional

Yeah, I'm delusional about the roams that happen every day, about the fact that on average we spend less than ten minutes at any given time sitting on a titan, and that we have quite an extensive list of reds that's longer than the list of blues.
EDIT: Huh, we should probably take care of that, looks like it was updated today. We have a leak it seems.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#150 - 2013-01-16 10:09:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Zloco Crendraven
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Yeah, I'm delusional about the roams that happen every day, about the fact that on average we spend less than ten minutes at any given time sitting on a titan, and that we have quite an extensive list of reds that's longer than the list of blues.
EDIT: Huh, we should probably take care of that, looks like it was updated today. We have a leak it seems.


Great! Than u dont need Titans and jump drives to actually have fun if u r already used to roams. Leave those for tactical deployments and defending your assets and not jumping on ppl whenever and wherever u want.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#151 - 2013-01-16 10:11:24 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Yeah, I'm delusional about the roams that happen every day, about the fact that on average we spend less than ten minutes at any given time sitting on a titan, and that we have quite an extensive list of reds that's longer than the list of blues.
EDIT: Huh, we should probably take care of that, looks like it was updated today. We have a leak it seems.


Great! Than u dont need Titans and jump drives to actually have fun if u r already used to roams. Leave those for tactical deployments and defending your assets and not jumping on ppl whenever and wherever u want.

Who the hell are you to tell us how to use our titans and jump portals?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Kinis Deren
Mosquito Squadron
D0GS OF WAR
#152 - 2013-01-16 10:20:59 UTC
Very good post OP, I enjoyed reading it and think it is a valuable contribution on the ongoing debate over power projection.

Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#153 - 2013-01-16 10:26:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Zloco Crendraven
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Yeah, I'm delusional about the roams that happen every day, about the fact that on average we spend less than ten minutes at any given time sitting on a titan, and that we have quite an extensive list of reds that's longer than the list of blues.
EDIT: Huh, we should probably take care of that, looks like it was updated today. We have a leak it seems.


Great! Than u dont need Titans and jump drives to actually have fun if u r already used to roams. Leave those for tactical deployments and defending your assets and not jumping on ppl whenever and wherever u want.

Who the hell are you to tell us how to use our titans and jump portals?


I am not telling "you". I am telling how it should be :D as many others who recognized this problem and are posting contineously on the forums about it.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.

CCP Gargant
C C P
C C P Alliance
#154 - 2013-01-16 10:28:52 UTC
Cleaned the thread up a bit. Keep it dapper, everyone.

CCP Gargant | EVE Universe esports Coordinator

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#155 - 2013-01-16 10:29:05 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
I am not telling "you". I am telling how it should be :D as many others who recognized this problem and are posting contineously on the forums about it.

You haven't actually stated what the problem is with jump drives. They're working as intended.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2013-01-16 10:41:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
I think mynnna is massively overstating the impact of a JDC nerf - I use midpoints in hostile 0.0 on a regular basis and the risk is not nearly as high as he claims.

The only major drawback is that you cannot jump a jf around solo but need to bring a carrier along to cap it up. so it can move on without delay - even if you get interrupted by a hostile jumping in you usually should have enough time for a safe log off (check the system for abandoned probes beforehand, don't reuse safespots, ...).

Moving carriers through hostile space is no hassle at all and nearly risk free (choose empty system for midpoint, place cyno ship at a safe, initiate self-destruct, light cyno and jump as ~10s are left on the self-destruct timer, log off cyno alt, cloak up carrier until you have regenerated enough capacitor to leave).

.

Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#157 - 2013-01-16 10:45:27 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
I am not telling "you". I am telling how it should be :D as many others who recognized this problem and are posting contineously on the forums about it.

You haven't actually stated what the problem is with jump drives. They're working as intended.


They are working as itended, as POSes as everything else that needs iteration. But the effect those mechanics have are not healthy for eve. And thus CCP i changing them by nerfing, buffing or removing them completely.

And i stated what the problem is. Force projection = Too easy

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#158 - 2013-01-16 10:47:51 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
They are working as itended, as POSes as everything else that needs iteration. But the effect those mechanics have are not healthy for eve. And thus CCP i changing them by nerfing, buffing or removing them completely.

No, those things are not working as intended.

Zloco Crendraven wrote:
And i stated what the problem is. Force projection = Too easy

It's supposed to be fairly easy. That's why it was made the way it was.
If it's too easy, you have to explain what it's too easy for.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#159 - 2013-01-16 10:55:40 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
They are working as itended, as POSes as everything else that needs iteration. But the effect those mechanics have are not healthy for eve. And thus CCP i changing them by nerfing, buffing or removing them completely.

No, those things are not working as intended.

Zloco Crendraven wrote:
And i stated what the problem is. Force projection = Too easy

It's supposed to be fairly easy. That's why it was made the way it was.
If it's too easy, you have to explain what it's too easy for.


Yes they are, they are working as CCP wanted them to work so it was as intended. POSes got to much complicated same as force projection became a game killer.
Force projection = to easy... if u red what i and many others were writing u might even understand it.

U can jump to far to quick. Add timers, nerf ranges, put a mass limit, whatever.

As i ve written how should it work. Leave the ranges as they are but add a cooldown compared to how much u jump. If u jump to max range u get a substantial cooldown and viceversa.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.

tgl3
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2013-01-16 10:58:00 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
FourierTransformer wrote:
Yes only CFC, HBC, Solar, etc. have any right to discuss jump drives. Never mind that everyone from WH to NPC 0.0 uses carriers and JF's all the damn time.

Tell me more about WH corps using jump drives.

Gotta get that fuel into the nullsec connection somehow...