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Skill reallocation Option needs to finally be added and why
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#341 - 2013-01-16 00:20:57 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Quote:


Again, you fundamentally misunderstand the Free To Play industry.

-Liang


I understand the definition of free to play and their business models just fine. You all fail to realize this thread is about Skill remaps, Not pay 2 win, or free to play. And you all keep trolling off subject.


So talk about skill remaps instead of P2W or F2P. Everything you've said about those topics so far is just flat wrong.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#342 - 2013-01-16 00:21:51 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt

This game isn't pay to win, and it's not free to play.... You fundamentally misunderstand both concepts...

From CCP's perspective... someone ALWAYS pays RL Money for your game time... even if it didn't come out of your pocket...

From the perspective of the general game economy... PLEX does NOT change the amount of isk or skillpoints or tangible assets in game. Any "advantages" gained by PLEX are zero-sum advantages. This is why PLEX is NOT pay-to-win.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#343 - 2013-01-16 00:23:07 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:


Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:

Eve is a Free to play game, as you can download it for free, buy a plex off the market, and never pay a dime to CCP in order to play.
And since plex can be used to buy any item in game instantaneously once it is sold for ISK, Eve is by Definition PAY TO WIN.


Our argument isnt about free to play however liang, its about pay to win. Thought I wouldn't catch you trying to switch up the debate subject on me eh?


lulz


I mentioned it was free to play yes, but our argument was not about free to play it was about PAY TO WIN.


Eve is not a free to play game. Eve is not a pay to win game. You fundamentally misunderstand both terms.

-Liang

To help recap, op believes that owning things (even if you have no use for them) is "winning" eve.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#344 - 2013-01-16 00:24:56 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:


Again, you fundamentally misunderstand the Free To Play industry.

-Liang
I still don't understand how this helps op prove his idea isn't terrible?


Your opinion is that is is terrible. This does not mean that it in fact is, Other people think its a great Idea, Obviously, because the thread has over 200 Likes. And many people defending the idea of it against about 3-5 of the exact same people arguing against it.

You 5 do represent the Eve Community. Nor do you represent CCP.

As I've stated before this is a Sugesstion, and when someone give me :

a

1. Logical
or
2. Technical reason

For why it should not be in game, which you can prove is not simply your "Opinion". Because honestly the only thing I see on this thread are illogical and irrelevant fears, and Opinions which have no grounds for dismissing it.

On the other hand,

Several people have posted several good reasons for why it should in fact be in game.


Saying things like:

* It will break the game
* its unfair to new players
* It would break balance
* Etc

Are not logical nor technical reasons. These are "opinions" and nothing more. Especially when just the opposite of those arguments has been proven repeatedly. By changes that have been implemented to the game in the past. And by the very fact that this system already Exists in Eve and has for years, and people use it every day.

It simply is not "Public" and a dev must activate on your account.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#345 - 2013-01-16 00:28:37 UTC
You are aware that most of the likes in this thread are for people arguing against your proposition?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#346 - 2013-01-16 00:29:46 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:


Again, you fundamentally misunderstand the Free To Play industry.

-Liang
I still don't understand how this helps op prove his idea isn't terrible?


Your opinion is that is is terrible. This does not mean that it in fact is, Other people think its a great Idea, Obviously, because the thread has over 200 Likes. And many people defending the idea of it against about 3-5 of the exact same people arguing against it.

You 5 do represent the Eve Community. Nor do you represent CCP.

As I've stated before this is a Sugesstion, and when someone give me :

a

1. Logical
or
2. Technical reason

For why it should not be in game, which you can prove is not simply your "Opinion". Because honestly the only thing I see on this thread are illogical and irrelevant fears, and Opinions which have no grounds for dismissing it.

On the other hand,

Several people have posted several good reasons for why it should in fact be in game.


Saying things like:

* It will break the game
* its unfair to new players
* It would break balance
* Etc

Are not logical nor technical reasons. These are "opinions" and nothing more. Especially when just the opposite of those arguments has been proven repeatedly. By changes that have been implemented to the game in the past. And by the very fact that this system already Exists in Eve and has for years, and people use it every day.

It simply is not "Public" and a dev must activate on your account.

I've seen ONE dude defend this. And 190 of the 200 likes in this thread are liking people saying your idea (and you) are stupid.

The sheer fact that you said "it will unbalance the game" is not a valid argument shows you are totaly hopless and should just biomass yourself and save us the trouble.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#347 - 2013-01-16 00:32:59 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:


Again, you fundamentally misunderstand the Free To Play industry.

-Liang
I still don't understand how this helps op prove his idea isn't terrible?


Your opinion is that is is terrible. This does not mean that it in fact is, Other people think its a great Idea, Obviously, because the thread has over 200 Likes. And many people defending the idea of it against about 3-5 of the exact same people arguing against it.

You 5 do represent the Eve Community. Nor do you represent CCP.

As I've stated before this is a Sugesstion, and when someone give me :

a

1. Logical
or
2. Technical reason

For why it should not be in game, which you can prove is not simply your "Opinion". Because honestly the only thing I see on this thread are illogical and irrelevant fears, and Opinions which have no grounds for dismissing it.

On the other hand,

Several people have posted several good reasons for why it should in fact be in game.


Saying things like:

* It will break the game
* its unfair to new players
* It would break balance
* Etc

Are not logical nor technical reasons. These are "opinions" and nothing more. Especially when just the opposite of those arguments has been proven repeatedly. By changes that have been implemented to the game in the past. And by the very fact that this system already Exists in Eve and has for years, and people use it every day.

It simply is not "Public" and a dev must activate on your account.

I've seen ONE dude defend this. And 190 of the 200 likes in this thread are liking people saying your idea (and you) are stupid.

The sheer fact that you said "it will unbalance the game" is not a valid argument shows you are totaly hopless and should just biomass yourself and save us the trouble.


Funny, I have 44 likes alone from this thread... and that's just me. I think you math is way off. Cause I'm pretty sure 200 - 190 is not 44........ other people whoa re arguing for this have received likes also. When I look through your alls post very few if any of them have likes,

But that's ok you'll go through the thread and like each others posts.

I mean really post something valid worth discussing or stop trolling.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#348 - 2013-01-16 00:36:52 UTC

The OPs idea is bad....

A mechanic to redistribute skillpoints essentially removes the consequences of past decisions, and enables FOTM on an entirely new scale....

It doesn't matter if CCP changes the game and makes your old ships less effective. You've already benefited from the SP you have. That is what you got for your investment. At no point do the SP you have acquired now guarantee your current in-game expertise will still be relevant to your future endeavors. Since the creation of this game, CCP has been changing stats of ships, game mechanics, and more... That's how they keep the game going strong and alive, it's how they retain players. In a game with regular major expansions, things change... a lot!!! It's absolutely ridiculous that you think CCP should allow you to instantly respec your skillset just because they new changes encourage you to alter your playstyle.

Your change essentially makes it so you can always redistribute skillpoints to maximize their potential. That means people with "more sp" to redistribute will ALWAYS have a significant advantage over new players with less skillpoints to redistribute, and it completely destroys the long-term advantages you get from investing your skillpoints into a focused path as opposed to a broad spectrum.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#349 - 2013-01-16 00:37:15 UTC
You know, the funny thing about this is that implementing ideas like yours would be devastating to the game as a whole. The last time CCP even appeared to flirt with (actual) P2W the game's subscription base (verifiably) dropped by 25%.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#350 - 2013-01-16 00:37:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Astroniomix
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:

I mean really post something valid worth discussing or stop trolling.

YOU brought up likes. And I'm sorry I didn't feel like sifting through 14 pages of your ******** drivel in order to find out how many likes you have recieved.

Also it's fairly difficult to have a reasonable discussion when you claim that "it will un balance the game" isn't a reason to NOT do something.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#351 - 2013-01-16 01:12:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
Astroniomix wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:

I mean really post something valid worth discussing or stop trolling.

YOU brought up likes. And I'm sorry I didn't feel like sifting through 14 pages of your ******** drivel in order to find out how many likes you have recieved.

Also it's fairly difficult to have a reasonable discussion when you claim that "it will un balance the game" isn't a reason to NOT do something.


Actually I didint bring up F2p or P2W

One of the people who didn't like the Idea said it would be a Pay to win idea because another poster said it should cost a plex. Then Mag and 2 others ran with Pay to win thing.

Same with the free to play stuff except different people.

Also even though my posts and Ideas, may seem stupid to you, and other may assume or claim that they will break the game.The fact is as I have said 6 times now:


The Skill remap System is already in game.

Let me repeat that

The skill remap system is already in game.

It has been for years. I simply want CCP to finally make it public. Instead of Dev/GM activated for players.



Eve functions perfectly Fine and people use that remap thing daily. This is how I know all of the negative posts in this thread are full of Crap. Because if it was going to break the game it would have broke it a long time ago.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#352 - 2013-01-16 01:23:21 UTC
The distribution of SP from removed learning skills is hardly the same thing as being able to perpetually chase the FOTM every time CCP nerfs your favorite PWNMOBILE.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#353 - 2013-01-16 01:35:14 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:


As I've stated before this is a Sugesstion, and when someone give me :

a

1. Logical
or
2. Technical reason



reasons have been given. u just seem to be in denial

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#354 - 2013-01-16 01:38:03 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:

I mean really post something valid worth discussing or stop trolling.

YOU brought up likes. And I'm sorry I didn't feel like sifting through 14 pages of your ******** drivel in order to find out how many likes you have recieved.

Also it's fairly difficult to have a reasonable discussion when you claim that "it will un balance the game" isn't a reason to NOT do something.


Actually I didint bring up F2p or P2W

One of the people who didn't like the Idea said it would be a Pay to win idea because another poster said it should cost a plex. Then Mag and 2 others ran with Pay to win thing.

Same with the free to play stuff except different people.

Also even though my posts and Ideas, may seem stupid to you, and other may assume or claim that they will break the game.The fact is as I have said 6 times now:


The Skill remap System is already in game.

Let me repeat that

The skill remap system is already in game.

It has been for years. I simply want CCP to finally make it public. Instead of Dev/GM activated for players.



Eve functions perfectly Fine and people use that remap thing daily. This is how I know all of the negative posts in this thread are full of Crap. Because if it was going to break the game it would have broke it a long time ago.

Roll

Remove standings and insurance.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#355 - 2013-01-16 01:46:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
Liang Nuren wrote:
The distribution of SP from removed learning skills is hardly the same thing as being able to perpetually chase the FOTM every time CCP nerfs your favorite PWNMOBILE.

-Liang


Most people do not fly a ship because it is the best, they fly a ship because they like it.

I sure as hell don't fly the best ship. I fly the one I fly because I like the way it handles and it fits my playstyle.

* You can put someoen in the best ship all you want but if they have no idea how to use it right they'll die in it just like they would die in any other.

* There is never just 1 FOTM ship. There's usually 5-10 (hell sometimes 20). And most who fly them, don't fly them because they are FOTM.. and vets who cross train, will be able to fly the FOTM ships without this skill remap.


Your supposition is Illogical, and Irrational in the world of Eve. If this was World of Warcraft I would agree with you. To be perfectly Honest Eve is simply to "Big" to be effected anymore then on a negligible scale by FOTM unless CCP REALLY screws up on something.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#356 - 2013-01-16 01:50:03 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:


Most people do not fly a ship because it is the best, they fly a ship because they like it.

I sure as hell don't fly the best ship. I fly the one I fly because I like the way it handles and it fits my playstyle.


Therefore your proposal is not needed.
/thread.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#357 - 2013-01-16 01:56:01 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:


Most people do not fly a ship because it is the best, they fly a ship because they like it.

I sure as hell don't fly the best ship. I fly the one I fly because I like the way it handles and it fits my playstyle.


Therefore your proposal is not needed.
/thread.


My proposal does not deal soley with Nerfs and Game changes either.

It also deals with:

* New player opportunities and the Learning Curve

* Unused skills which are years old.

* Streamlining the skillsystem so it is less complicated.

* Making Eve more about the game play, then about What You have trained and what you don't. Right now because of the limited structure of the Skill System, you get in Eve and your only focus is to "Train skills".

I want to shift this focus from "Train Skills" to "Play Game". Allowing people to respec their skills lets them focus more on having Fun, then worrying about how they fapped up by training Mining when they figured out they wanted to pvp instead, and now have to worry about training basic pvp skills rather then simply transferring the SP and then going off to have fun while training other skills they need for pvp..
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#358 - 2013-01-16 01:58:47 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:


Most people do not fly a ship because it is the best, they fly a ship because they like it.

I sure as hell don't fly the best ship. I fly the one I fly because I like the way it handles and it fits my playstyle.


Therefore your proposal is not needed.
/thread.


My proposal does not deal soley with Nerfs and Game changes either.

It also deals with:

* New player opportunities and the Learning Curve

* Unused skills which are years old.

* Streamlining the skillsystem so it is less complicated.

* Making Eve more about the game play, then about What You have trained and what you don't. Right now because of the limited structure of the Skill System, you get in Eve and your only focus is to "Train skills".

I want to shift this focus from "Train Skills" to "Play Game". Allowing people to respec their skills lets them focus more on having Fun, then worrying about how they fapped up by training Mining when they figured out they wanted to pvp instead, and now have to worry about training basic pvp skills rather then simply transferring the SP and then going off to have fun while training other skills they need for pvp..

A week old noob can pvp. Your proposal does not fix anything because there is no problem.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#359 - 2013-01-16 02:00:51 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:

Your supposition is Illogical, and Irrational in the world of Eve. If this was World of Warcraft I would agree with you. To be perfectly Honest Eve is simply to "Big" to be effected anymore then on a negligible scale by FOTM unless CCP REALLY screws up on something.


You cannot be serious.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#360 - 2013-01-16 02:10:21 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:


Most people do not fly a ship because it is the best, they fly a ship because they like it.

I sure as hell don't fly the best ship. I fly the one I fly because I like the way it handles and it fits my playstyle.


Therefore your proposal is not needed.
/thread.


My proposal does not deal soley with Nerfs and Game changes either.

It also deals with:

* New player opportunities and the Learning Curve

* Unused skills which are years old.

* Streamlining the skillsystem so it is less complicated.

* Making Eve more about the game play, then about What You have trained and what you don't. Right now because of the limited structure of the Skill System, you get in Eve and your only focus is to "Train skills".

I want to shift this focus from "Train Skills" to "Play Game". Allowing people to respec their skills lets them focus more on having Fun, then worrying about how they fapped up by training Mining when they figured out they wanted to pvp instead, and now have to worry about training basic pvp skills rather then simply transferring the SP and then going off to have fun while training other skills they need for pvp..

A week old noob can pvp. Your proposal does not fix anything because there is no problem.


A vast number of Noobs would disagree with you, especially those who have left the game after a week of playing specifically because skill system is so unforgiving.