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Nerf High-sec because internet spaceships is not meant to be hello-kitty online
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Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#41 - 2013-01-15 23:49:11 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
special book marks, manually hit D-Scan every 30 seconds, and dock for a few hours whenever someone feels like trying to kill me since I can't fight back. All that to counter some random mouth breather who logs on, jumps in a relatively cheap ship, and goes hunting. Option B is bring PvP combat pilots, split the profit to pointlesnes, and let them sit bored because they won't be engaged. I'm simply not going to pay to play this game to provide for some asshat's entertainment.

Granted, he's not getting what he wants either, unless his goal was to force others to waste their time. I'd fight him if I could have a chance at winning. I'd fight him if he'd stick around when I switced to a PvP ship. Neither happens. So I came because I like missioning, and I got to sit in station and spin my ship. Yay, really worth the price of the game for that riveting gameplay. Better to just avoid lowsec and go do something else where goals can actually be accomplished doing activities I enjoy.

If you want to hunt a target in low sec that way, put me on the payroll. Provide me ships and 2 plex a month and I'll be in any system trying to mission as you wish, just so you can hunt me. My actual real life job is more fun than the playstyle you are trying to force on carebears.


Just like you, I'm willing to PvP when I stand a chance. If I could have a chance, I would fight him too. But the way it goes is they hunt down carebears that can't fight back, scare them away (or kill them if they're not paying attention) and run off the moment a real fight shows up. You don't make enough money to put up with that hassle. Now if I could fight... there's a different story.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#42 - 2013-01-16 00:02:41 UTC
My point is you can't balance that.

If you make low sec so valuable that it's worth putting up with all that hassle when you are being hunted, it becomes stupidly too valuable if you happen to log on shortly after downtime or find a backwater system and have 20 minutes to kill before pirates show up.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#43 - 2013-01-16 00:52:45 UTC
Domineren wrote:
[Leave the hisec miners alone...they make your ships at an affordable price. When the drones stopped dropping alloy guess what? prices on things went up. When incursions came out guess what? prices went even higher. If you get rid of Concord and not punish pirates guess what? Prices hit 200 mil for a battlecruiser...on the bright side at least plex prices will drop...as will player participation in the game. Its kind of like in an ecosystem. If you have too many predators then they starve because there are no prey.


*waits to be called a hisec miner/carebear...even though in rebirth...*




This basically.

For the hardcore no pve alt for me pvp'ers....its the carebears isk warring lp for ammo turns in that get them their faction ammo for lower prices. Carebears are very nice in this area. I have some 0.0 time. Several different homes I found it cheaper to pay for a jf courier at 250 isk per m3 to ship out jita faction ammo buys

For the carebear gankers...they seem to forget that when on those lucky ganks they get say the recent and pricey DS shield fittings when they sell them at jita its a carebear rebuying it. Pvp'ers outside of mommie/titan pilots don't need 400 mil isk invuls. While it would pimp an AF real nice at some point its gonna go boom.

Even funnier is many of the richest players I know personally in this game are 0.0/low sec pvp'ers. Personal mommies and even titans. they work several low/0.0 angles very well. One player I know is a damn good pirate. Lives out in low, gets around low sec all over. So in his time in game he jsut said screw it, looks like a good spot to throw up a reaction pos. Runs several of them.

The punchline is his 1 empire manufacturing pos has been more in danger than his low sec ones. He's made a few people mad across a few chars. the empire alt's corp/pos dec'd quite a few times and the bashers were pretty good. Not good enough to pop it but he said some have impressed him (hecan run a damn good solo pos defence since a 5 alt or more player and since a day 1 of eve player.....his alts are wtf high sp lol).

Now his low sec pos', many pirates did not sign up for pos bashing so the worst he gets is weak attempts to bait him into repping them, He reverse baits with a repper and then sees what shows up for the pos gunner to play with. Rarely loses the bait and generally kills pirate bashers in decent numbers till they say we are done here.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#44 - 2013-01-16 01:14:43 UTC
the attraction of hi-sec (or alternatively the detraction of low sec) is not the amount of isk u can make, its the casual gameplay u can have in hi-sec.

whenever u are in hi-sec u can mine or mission whilst watching tv, browsing the net, chatting with corpies, checking the market, messing with eft or any number of things. and if u have a lifestyle that can pull u afk at any moment, u have little to no worries about what may happen while ur away and can even just press the auto pilot to go just a few jumps to hand in a mission or dock to drop off ore. u can even log off in space with little danger if u need to.

In low sec however, u cant really do any of these. u must constantly watch local and D-scan, so u wont be watching tv, or be alt tabbed out in any way. nor can u just walk away from ur keyboard. u must either warp to a safe first and then cloak or log off, or find a station (if there is one in that system), hoping that ur not camped by the time u come back. and while ur trying to travel between systems u should be using scouts and definitely cannot auto pilot.

if i could sit at my computer for 10 hours a day and grind whilst mashing D-scan and watching local, then i'd still do my carebearing in null.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#45 - 2013-01-16 01:22:45 UTC
At one point in time Players could kill Concord, could even loot their special gear. CCP buffed them for a reason, Because highsec was basically lowsec, and Highsec is not intended to play like 0.0 and Lowsec.

This is a decision which will not happen, as CCP continually strives to impliment changes which make highsec "safer". Not more dangerous. Most likely because fully 70% of their subscriptions come from Highsec players.

If you want more of a challenge, you should move to lowsec, or Null.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#46 - 2013-01-16 01:35:41 UTC


Instead of Nerfing Highsec, why don't you sugest Buffing Null and Low and WH's?

We don't reside in highsec because we like to, We reside in highsec because 0.0 and Lowsec are **** unless you belong to a HUGE alliance.

You want us to come out to Null and Lowsec, make it worth our time and money. because currently it isn't.

---

On nullsec industry -

* 0.0 has the shittiiest refiners in eve why the hell would you ever want to refine anything there?

* Why would I want to risk my ass mining ABC ore, when their is no way for me to compete with say... Goonswarm, or Razor or any other Huge massive alliance with decent Industry for the value of minerals?

* Building in null is far too much of a hassle unless your in one of the HUGE Alliances.


The only way to convince Highsecers to go into null is to:

1. Impliment a system which allows smaler corps and alliances to actually compete in Null (I don't know gate locks or something) Which disallow entry into said system without the gate being hacked by a spaecialty gate hacking ship (or whatever).

* Restriction - Only alliances with less then 10 Corps and a total Member basis of less then 500 can use this function on the gate. This will help prevent large alliances from abusing this ability

or

2. Allow smaller corps and Alliances to purchase "Guards" and Hire out Concord to patrol and care for their space. This will insure that larger alliances have a VERY difficult time simply blobbing and pushing smaller corps out of 0.0.


3. Whatever


But yea when 0.0 and lowsec is actually WORTH the majority of Eves player base to go to, well go there, Until then no matter what you do we wont. If you nerf highsec, you'll just lose Subs for other games, it's that simple.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#47 - 2013-01-16 01:42:36 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:


Instead of Nerfing Highsec, why don't you sugest Buffing Null and Low and WH's?

We don't reside in highsec because we like to, We reside in highsec because 0.0 and Lowsec are **** unless you belong to a HUGE alliance.

You want us to come out to Null and Lowsec, make it worth our time and money. because currently it isn't.

---

On nullsec industry -

* 0.0 has the shittiiest refiners in eve why the hell would you ever want to refine anything there?

* Why would I want to risk my ass mining ABC ore, when their is no way for me to compete with say... Goonswarm, or Razor or any other Huge massive alliance with decent Industry for the value of minerals?

* Building in null is far too much of a hassle unless your in one of the HUGE Alliances.


The only way to convince Highsecers to go into null is to:

1. Impliment a system which allows smaler corps and alliances to actually compete in Null (I don't know gate locks or something) Which disallow entry into said system without the gate being hacked by a spaecialty gate hacking ship (or whatever).

* Restriction - Only alliances with less then 10 Corps and a total Member basis of less then 500 can use this function on the gate. This will help prevent large alliances from abusing this ability

or

2. Allow smaller corps and Alliances to purchase "Guards" and Hire out Concord to patrol and care for their space. This will insure that larger alliances have a VERY difficult time simply blobbing and pushing smaller corps out of 0.0.


3. Whatever


But yea when 0.0 and lowsec is actually WORTH the majority of Eves player base to go to, well go there, Until then no matter what you do we wont. If you nerf highsec, you'll just lose Subs for other games, it's that simple.



My, what original ideas you have. There's no way any of these could ever be abused at all!

Roll
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#48 - 2013-01-16 03:26:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Danika Princip wrote:
[My, what original ideas you have. There's no way any of these could ever be abused at all!

Roll



what...you mean like goons, russians, etc break up to crews under the limit and just "coalition" up?



And the huge alliance stuff. he said....man there are alternatives. While some may take the term badly you can always be a squatter in 0.0 NPC. Many crews past, present and future run well out of NPC stations. No you won't have IHUbs and indices maxed out....well yours anyway.

Funny story. I had a char in an alliance on a campaign. MOst of us long gone and far away fighting the war on foreign space soil. BUt many of our member corps indices never went down for a few systems. Squatter saw all 1000+ of us getting shot up all the hell away across new edne and they ratted out systems lol. And mined. When we came back, cleaned them out of our space it was cool....we aren't starting from level 1 again.


But anyway, I know lots of non-sov holding crews that have done well for themselves not holding one bit of space. RK has been around for a while. 2 alliances I have been in failscaded into nothingness for while now...RK still lives.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#49 - 2013-01-16 03:28:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
Danika Princip wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:


Instead of Nerfing Highsec, why don't you sugest Buffing Null and Low and WH's?

We don't reside in highsec because we like to, We reside in highsec because 0.0 and Lowsec are **** unless you belong to a HUGE alliance.

You want us to come out to Null and Lowsec, make it worth our time and money. because currently it isn't.

---

On nullsec industry -

* 0.0 has the shittiiest refiners in eve why the hell would you ever want to refine anything there?

* Why would I want to risk my ass mining ABC ore, when their is no way for me to compete with say... Goonswarm, or Razor or any other Huge massive alliance with decent Industry for the value of minerals?

* Building in null is far too much of a hassle unless your in one of the HUGE Alliances.


The only way to convince Highsecers to go into null is to:

1. Impliment a system which allows smaler corps and alliances to actually compete in Null (I don't know gate locks or something) Which disallow entry into said system without the gate being hacked by a spaecialty gate hacking ship (or whatever).

* Restriction - Only alliances with less then 10 Corps and a total Member basis of less then 500 can use this function on the gate. This will help prevent large alliances from abusing this ability

or

2. Allow smaller corps and Alliances to purchase "Guards" and Hire out Concord to patrol and care for their space. This will insure that larger alliances have a VERY difficult time simply blobbing and pushing smaller corps out of 0.0.


3. Whatever


But yea when 0.0 and lowsec is actually WORTH the majority of Eves player base to go to, well go there, Until then no matter what you do we wont. If you nerf highsec, you'll just lose Subs for other games, it's that simple.



My, what original ideas you have. There's no way any of these could ever be abused at all!

Roll



Oh im sure they could be abused, they were just examples. I don't know how you would fix null as everything CCP does to try and fix it only makes the larger alliances more powerful and the smaller ones less able to function.


Maybe restrict how much space you can "Own?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2013-01-16 03:54:38 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:




Oh im sure they could be abused, they were just examples. I don't know how you would fix null as everything CCP does to try and fix it only makes the larger alliances more powerful and the smaller ones less able to function.


Maybe restrict how much space you can "Own?



Nope, you'd just have goonswarm federation 1, 2, 3 etc holding the sov instead.

(Also, just so you know, I live in the same region that goonwaffe bases out of. Some days, buying every scrap of trit on the market would not let me build a single battleship. There's no need to try and compete with them for minerals, nullsec imports most of it's stuff anyway.)
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-01-16 05:20:45 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Danika Princip wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:




Oh im sure they could be abused, they were just examples. I don't know how you would fix null as everything CCP does to try and fix it only makes the larger alliances more powerful and the smaller ones less able to function.


Maybe restrict how much space you can "Own?



Nope, you'd just have goonswarm federation 1, 2, 3 etc holding the sov instead.

(Also, just so you know, I live in the same region that goonwaffe bases out of. Some days, buying every scrap of trit on the market would not let me build a single battleship. There's no need to try and compete with them for minerals, nullsec imports most of it's stuff anyway.)


Have you considered letting neut miners into your space? Remember where trit comes from?Lol

NBSI! Let us whine about the consequences of our own actions...Roll
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#52 - 2013-01-16 11:14:12 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:




Oh im sure they could be abused, they were just examples. I don't know how you would fix null as everything CCP does to try and fix it only makes the larger alliances more powerful and the smaller ones less able to function.


Maybe restrict how much space you can "Own?



Nope, you'd just have goonswarm federation 1, 2, 3 etc holding the sov instead.

(Also, just so you know, I live in the same region that goonwaffe bases out of. Some days, buying every scrap of trit on the market would not let me build a single battleship. There's no need to try and compete with them for minerals, nullsec imports most of it's stuff anyway.)


Have you considered letting neut miners into your space? Remember where trit comes from?Lol

NBSI! Let us whine about the consequences of our own actions...Roll



No, because nine times out of then if they weren't looking to hotdrop our ratters, they'd just be planning to shoot them themselves.

Something you guys don't seem to get is that any neutral in player controlled nullsec is a potential problem for friendly ratters/miners/PI guys/whatever. Why take the risk?
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc.
#53 - 2013-01-16 15:57:00 UTC  |  Edited by: nikon56
Mike Voidstar wrote:
nikon56 wrote:



while i agree about the reason relative for the lack of bears in low (actually, it is fine for me, cause it is intended).

i don't agree on the revenue side.

yes, you make a bit more income in low, BUT the investment is far far higher than in high sec, and in the end, makes the profit to be LESS than high.

also, said investment is the reason low sec is "overhunted", or what i would call "protected", to protect those investment

I am not sure about what you mean by investment. The problem is that low sec missions still require mission fits, and must somehow also be able to fend off random pvp attacks as well. If you could do that, low sec would be far more profitable than high sec.

This makes it impossible to balance. If you decrease hi sec, or increase low, to the extent that it is worth all the hassle of running from kiddies who think attacking defensless targets is pvp, then it becomes massively over profitable as soon as the pirates are not in system long enough to actually get something done without that hassle.

The issue isn't about the risk, it is about the fact that the only way to mitigate that risk is to either bring enough with you that profitability tanks but you remain able to function, or you sit in station all night because 'pirates' are 'hunting', but won't engage in anything that might be a fight. I get to waste either my time, or my escorts time. Not fun either way.

If bears were able to actually engage pirates with a chance of fighting, this would not be an issue, you would have your targets, and low would be more active with targets willing to risk a fight for the profit. Right now they risk only destruction or a long wait in station, there is no fight.


the investment i'm refering to, is in fact all things not dedicated to PVP you need to make money in low.

as you pointed, mission running still require a mission fit, wich in most of the case is not compatible with a pvp fit.

so, you act ahead, and deny access the best you can.

and you do it any time, so that ppl will not want to settle in the area, because they will be stuck in station, or will have to risk loosing anything they undock.

and there are the mining fleets, the POSs, the pocos etc...

in fact, it is somehow the same mechanism that make care bear stay out of low.

they stay because it is not worth risking a pve fit for the extra profit offered by low mission.

lowsecer choosed another way to respond, and the way is to secure themselve the area

and bears could still fight back.

you know, nobody prevent them to team up with other ppl, bring pvp fleet etc....

eve is all about teamwork to achieve the greatest goals, and being able to reliably live from lowsec is the first step to this.

if the bears were claiming it is unfair because a single player cannot hold a sov in null, you would laught, because this require team play.

same is true in low.

or you can still sneak in, wit an adapted ship (like a cloacky strat), and wait for the pirates to be elsewhere to run sigs and stuff
or simply ask for a blue status......
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc.
#54 - 2013-01-16 16:05:33 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:

I am not sure about what you mean by investment. The problem is that low sec missions still require mission fits, and must somehow also be able to fend off random pvp attacks as well. If you could do that, low sec would be far more profitable than high sec.

You can "somehow" do that...

1) Fit yourself for PVP (specifically, fit for the ability to run easily, not to fight)
2) Fly to wherever your agent is. Should be a place where the route between agent and typical missions do not pass by any gates that anybody would ever want to camp (or just only accept missions in the same system).
3) Set up insta-undock bookmarks at that station
4) Refit for mission running.
5) Insta-undock when you go out for a mission, and no PVPer will be able to catch you at the station in your mission fit.
6) Open up your D-scan, which has been set to only show you probes/drones.
7) Run your mission, hitting your D-scan at 360 degrees and about 4-5 AU radius every 20-30 seconds or so.
8) If you see any combat probes on D-scan, bail out immediately, and come back to finish the mission a couple hours later.

This will prevent any "random" PVP attacks from threatening your mission fit, unless it's a whole pack of highly organized people with some extraordinarily skilled scanner amongst their ranks. Which is very rare. I've never had any problems.

Anybody who can't figure this sort of stuff out, or who doesn't have the diligence to follow through with it, deserve to be poor... (and they would be, if high sec missions were appropriately much less profitable than low sec ones). They don't require "balancing" to help them make money even though they refuse to fly carefully.

exactly.

be smart and adapt, or stay dumb and get what you deserve
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc.
#55 - 2013-01-16 16:09:55 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
cytheras wrath wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Nice ideas there. Once Eve's the way you want, all 5 of you bittervets left in the game can get together and figure out how to fund CCP.Lol


its easy, us 5 vets will have everyone's isk ( stuff ) and buy the remaining plex's to the point, where we will have enough game time in our 5 accounts to keep ccp happy for atleast a month or so. then we go play minecraft or something.

in reality, i dont play eve as much as i use to simply because its boring, there is no 'omfg this happened to me today' or any other form of excitement, and the amount of time i can invest in games is already limited.

i agree eve is a great game, but there is no short and sweet things that are entertaining or keep me wanting to come back for more.

i think the only time i actually said ill come back was when incarna was release ( i was bitterly disapointed ) and put off by this, so i stoped playing, i didnt un-subscribe because i didnt want to fall behind in my training for when they actually release something that makes up for the failure.

which brings me to why i posted this to begin with, CCP is making this sandbox more and more into a 'theme park' sandbox. where if you want to do X your limited to do it this way or that way.

CCP needs to get off that train of mind, and just provide us the tools to craft or carve out what we want to do, which brings me to why i want this change. CCP has made highsec way too safe, and when way to safe is where everyone hangs out and plays, the rest of the game is very bland and well crappy.

i dont want to be a miner that sits in highsec and watchs a static laser show, i dont want to be a mission runner that does the same thing all the time (actually waiting for the dynamic AI rats and try that new toy out ). i dont want to be part of a nullsec alliance and be forced to play on their schedule, and i dont want to chill in low sec where i have to find people to kill and not meet new people because no one hangs out in low sec. its also been harder and harder to perform piracy profitably, which is the whole point of piracy ( pillaging and looting for profit of merchant ships ).


Uhhh... Simply buying all the PLEX from other players will do nothing if there's no new PLEX being injected because just paying the ISK gives CCP no real money to operate off of.

Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:

I am not sure about what you mean by investment. The problem is that low sec missions still require mission fits, and must somehow also be able to fend off random pvp attacks as well. If you could do that, low sec would be far more profitable than high sec.

You can "somehow" do that...

1) Fit yourself for PVP (specifically, fit for the ability to run easily, not to fight)
2) Fly to wherever your agent is. Should be a place where the route between agent and typical missions do not pass by any gates that anybody would ever want to camp (or just only accept missions in the same system).
3) Set up insta-undock bookmarks at that station
4) Refit for mission running.
5) Insta-undock when you go out for a mission, and no PVPer will be able to catch you at the station in your mission fit.
6) Open up your D-scan, which has been set to only show you probes/drones.
7) Run your mission, hitting your D-scan at 360 degrees and about 4-5 AU radius every 20-30 seconds or so.
8) If you see any combat probes on D-scan, bail out immediately, and come back to finish the mission a couple hours later.

This will prevent any "random" PVP attacks from threatening your mission fit, unless it's a whole pack of highly organized people with some extraordinarily skilled scanner amongst their ranks. Which is very rare. I've never had any problems.

Anybody who can't figure this sort of stuff out, or who doesn't have the diligence to follow through with it, deserve to be poor... (and they would be, if high sec missions were appropriately much less profitable than low sec ones). They don't require "balancing" to help them make money even though they refuse to fly carefully.

The issue is that the moment some "pirate" shows up on d-scan you have to warp off which reduces your ISK/hour rate. And if it happens too often then your ISK/hour rate is far worse than in high sec. And you can't stick around and fight the pirates because PvE fits are **** for fighting pirates (and don't typically carry points), and PvP fits struggle (to say the least) with PvE.

So since you can't fit to defend yourself, you have to warp off. Since you have to warp off you're making less money. Since you're making less money you just go back to high-sec and make more money with less hassle. If you could fit for PvE and still have a decent chance when it came to PvP then lowbears would be a lot more common. As it is you're just better off being in high-sec.


quit whining, grow a pair, team up and kick those bad bad bad pirates.

or maybe, actually try TALKING to them, and see if a blue status is possible?
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc.
#56 - 2013-01-16 16:21:09 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Quote:
Yeah dude, that's why this thread is about nerfing high sec (or altnernatively, buffing low sec). So that even WITH the pirates, your isk/hour will no longer be worse than it is in high sec.

That's sort of the whole point. All you did is describe the problem that is being addressed here.


It's been tried before. Rewards in Low Sec have been buffed more than once over the years in an effort to do exactly what you wish. It still hasn't worked.

There is literally no amount of ISK I can make in an area such as lowsec to put up with that hassle in what is my leisure time. I'm fine with PvP, I'm not fine with being the helpless target of epeen stroking mouth breathing baby eaters.

It is not fun to play helpless mouse to a pack of hungry cats for 99.9% of carebears. My play time in low sec is at the mercy of a group of people that would think it was funny if they could actualy make you cry. I would be insane to think it's at all reasonable for me to have to set up special book marks, manually hit D-Scan every 30 seconds, and dock for a few hours whenever someone feels like trying to kill me since I can't fight back. All that to counter some random mouth breather who logs on, jumps in a relatively cheap ship, and goes hunting. Option B is bring PvP combat pilots, split the profit to pointlesnes, and let them sit bored because they won't be engaged. I'm simply not going to pay to play this game to provide for some asshat's entertainment.

Granted, he's not getting what he wants either, unless his goal was to force others to waste their time. I'd fight him if I could have a chance at winning. I'd fight him if he'd stick around when I switced to a PvP ship. Neither happens. So I came because I like missioning, and I got to sit in station and spin my ship. Yay, really worth the price of the game for that riveting gameplay. Better to just avoid lowsec and go do something else where goals can actually be accomplished doing activities I enjoy.

If you want to hunt a target in low sec that way, put me on the payroll. Provide me ships and 2 plex a month and I'll be in any system trying to mission as you wish, just so you can hunt me. My actual real life job is more fun than the playstyle you are trying to force on carebears.

again, you miss the point on how eve is designed.

it is intended by design, that you need to team up if you want to go further.

if you don't want that, then don't whine about being restrained to lower things
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#57 - 2013-01-16 16:29:45 UTC
nikon56 wrote:


quit whining, grow a pair, team up and kick those bad bad bad pirates.

or maybe, actually try TALKING to them, and see if a blue status is possible?


I have actually gone blue with pirates before. How? Well we had a larger group then them and said "We're moving in and using this for a staging ground. We won't fight you for the space/plexes, but we're going to live here, and if you try and fight we'll just bring more to the party." It worked. But any of the non-blues that came through had to be assumed were looking for a fight. And "grow a pair, team up, and kick those bad bad bad pirates"? Hah, good luck with that. The moment they see something else on D-scan they go running scared, unless they've got their links in system. And sure, you could say that solves the problem, but then you have to cut your isk/hour either by leaving the plex/mission, or by having to pay someone else for their time spent babysitting you. And if you're just going to end up making the same/less isk/hour than in high-sec, then why the hell even go to low?

That's what this discussion is all about. It's not about being scared of pirates. It's about them cutting into your isk/hour making high-sec a clear winner for effort:isk/hour. I can sit braindead/watching videos/playing another toon/petting the pocket snake in high-sec making almost if not as much isk/hour without having to worry about somebody showing up to gank my Tech 2 fitted Tech 1 ship, because it's simply not worth it.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#58 - 2013-01-16 16:33:11 UTC
Lol, you are funny.


You missed the part where i said I don't mind pvp.

What I'm not going to do is warp my entire playstyle and spend most of my time providing hunters with prey for no benefit to myself. Their actions reduce my income to zero, I don't enjoy that playstyle, I'm not ever going to think its reasonable to hit dscan every 30 seconds manually, they only gank not fight.

I am fine with all that, and am not whining about it, I just stay away from it. The whiners are the ones who are calling for what I do to be made not profitable so that I am forced into playing their mouse.

Boo Hoo, your victims don't want to play with you. Play nicer or deal with the fact that you have few playmates.
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc.
#59 - 2013-01-16 16:38:19 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Lol, you are funny.


You missed the part where i said I don't mind pvp.

What I'm not going to do is warp my entire playstyle and spend most of my time providing hunters with prey for no benefit to myself. Their actions reduce my income to zero, I don't enjoy that playstyle, I'm not ever going to think its reasonable to hit dscan every 30 seconds manually, they only gank not fight.

I am fine with all that, and am not whining about it, I just stay away from it. The whiners are the ones who are calling for what I do to be made not profitable so that I am forced into playing their mouse.

Boo Hoo, your victims don't want to play with you. Play nicer or deal with the fact that you have few playmates.

i don't mind having less traffic.

you don't want to pvp / team up /adapt? i'm totally fine with that, but don't ask for changes then.

you want to stick to your playstyle, your call, but this playstyle is made for High, not for low
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc.
#60 - 2013-01-16 16:47:51 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
nikon56 wrote:


quit whining, grow a pair, team up and kick those bad bad bad pirates.

or maybe, actually try TALKING to them, and see if a blue status is possible?


I have actually gone blue with pirates before. How? Well we had a larger group then them and said "We're moving in and using this for a staging ground. We won't fight you for the space/plexes, but we're going to live here, and if you try and fight we'll just bring more to the party." It worked. But any of the non-blues that came through had to be assumed were looking for a fight. And "grow a pair, team up, and kick those bad bad bad pirates"? Hah, good luck with that. The moment they see something else on D-scan they go running scared, unless they've got their links in system. And sure, you could say that solves the problem, but then you have to cut your isk/hour either by leaving the plex/mission, or by having to pay someone else for their time spent babysitting you. And if you're just going to end up making the same/less isk/hour than in high-sec, then why the hell even go to low?

That's what this discussion is all about. It's not about being scared of pirates. It's about them cutting into your isk/hour making high-sec a clear winner for effort:isk/hour. I can sit braindead/watching videos/playing another toon/petting the pocket snake in high-sec making almost if not as much isk/hour without having to worry about somebody showing up to gank my Tech 2 fitted Tech 1 ship, because it's simply not worth it.

so secure the area, make them leave.

i talked about investment earlier, and this investment include securing the area, at a point that you make more profit in low than in high.

it is up to you to choose if it is worth it or not.

you were blue in a pirate controled area, but you still had to hide sometime.

what about recruiting pvp pilot / corp?

they already know how to make isks, maybe they'll bring indus dedicated toons, so you will have double advantage, a way to secure your area, and logistic / discount on some items, maybe a way to add to your income by producing the BPCs you drop in sig, increasing your incomes?

with the correct setup, buddies, it might even be safer to mission in low.

i never felt as safe in my machariel running lvl4 than in lowsec, no gank risk, no annoying ninjas etc....
it's blue => it's safe
it's not blue => it will be trouble

way more clear than in high were the bazillons of neuts could be just missioners like you, or a nado fleet just about to insta pop your shiny the moment you pass the gate