Ships & Modules

Hi you guys.

I was setting up a CNR for lvl4 missions and came across several fits. Found my own one, fitted the thing, got into lvl4s and

WHOAH barely made it out alive.

Then I checked the numbers and found the CNR to have only 157 sustained defence in EFT (with specific hardeners and against the respective enemy damage profile). So I tried to fiddle around a little, but seriously: without 3 CCC rigs and several cap upgrades in low and mid, I just can't seem to get to the 600-700 sustained hp/s that people recommend.

Don't get me wrong, my Tengu for instance has 741 hp/s and that is with a sig radius of 150m and a 100MN fit so it makes 1.5 km/s.

I just cannot get that damn CNR up to proper values.

What am I missing? Thx already for the help!

The CNR fit I was initially using:

[Raven Navy Issue, Navy Raven 1]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Damage Control II
True Sansha Power Diagnostic System

Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Caldari Navy EM Ward Field
Caldari Navy EM Ward Field
Caldari Navy Thermic Dissipation Field
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x10

EFT tells me it's EHP/s actually. I have set the damage profile to be Blood Raider, that is EM/therm, and have fit 3 specific hardeners, 2x EM and 1x therm.

The large Booster is already pulsed, cap lasts 2m:45s. Fitting an XL Booster would bring the max EHP/s up to 1000, but the SUSTAINED EHP/s remains at ~150.

Thanks for the advice with the drone link augmentor. I just had no alternative for that high slot, but that's off topic...

And my kill order is just that... BC first while drones take care of frigs and cruisers. When the BCs are gone, go for the BSs

I appreciate your help. But please get my question right: it is not about how I survive the missions. I could figure a lot of tactics that already helped. Pulsed active tanking needs you to pay more attention, this is clear to me and by now I can handle the missions.

I just wonder why the number of sustained defence in EFT is so low while people say it should be at least, well, a lot more.

So is it that for pulsed active shield tanks, I should not worry about the sustained value but only focus on the max defence value?

"Sustained" means, I take it, that I put the shield booster on and off and on and off so I do not run out of cap and the AVERAGE dps I receive during that whole time is the sustained defence, right?

So for the pulsed active shield tank, I get why the max defence is a lot higher than the sustained defence. But still that does not explain why my sustained number is so low while people say it should be at least 500+

Stats like cap recharge and cap usage don't scale well when going up in ship size. Remember how you can burn an MWD forever on a frigate even on low skills, it becoming an issue on cruisers and just flatout being problematic on BS? Same thing. To make a BS cap stable on its BS size modules takes a whole lot of juggling with the modules and results in mediocre applied dps because of that. So, you either accept crappy performance OR you start fitting a cap booster. Using a cap booster means you only devote one midslot to the whole cap issue leaving all the lows for damage mods and rigs to increase applied dps. They're unwieldy to use and you can't do the half-afk thing but the net result is a high performance ship.

Then you get to the resist issue; shield suck against em/thermal (not counting T2/T3 minnie ships), they're just not good at it but your tengu gets away with it as its main resist (thermal, against Gallente) is helping you out. So you're using the wrong tanking type for the mission you seem to be doing.

Thirdly, you don't HAVE to run your tank at all all the time, or even close to all the time. Generally you get hit for low dps as the npc are still far away, then get hit more as they close in and then it tapers off again once they start dying. So in reality you might only have to fully tank for a minute or two, if at all. And if you know how that cap recharge isn't linear but peaks at 25-30% you can "ride the recharge wave" a bit, rep till your cap drops to 25%, stop your shield booster and let your cap go up to 45% or so again (which happens fast as it's close to peak) and then start shield boosting again.


But the real answer is; you're using the wrong ship. If you run into em/thermal npcs on a regular basis get an armor tanked ship or get a minnie T2/T3. In your case, especially given your name, why the hell aren't you using an abaddon, they're awesome! Buttloads of dps and enough tank to survive, not easy to use or fit but they're amazing if fitted right (most ppl fit it wrong).

Ok thanks a lot, guys.
Both dropping the DC and PDU for 4th BCU and Signal Amp and the fitting of a Cap Booster I recognize as the Liang fit, which already seemed quite reasonable to me, but still did not solve my problem with the numbers.

I don't run into EM/therm most often, just because of the EM hole, that was kinda my worst case scenario. But yeah, I also really like the Abaddon, but yet lack both the armor rep and Laser turret skills (since I started with maxing Caldari skills).

Still to make it clear: I was only confused by the discrepancy between MY sustained EHP/s and the "recommended" numbers for lvl4 missions around on the web.

To resume what I have learned today: CNR's idea is to kill stuff quickly and drop the average DPS I receive just by that: killing stuff quickly. That means a lot of time without taking any damage at all, but also some peaks in incoming damage. So what matters for the CNR is JUST ENOUGH tank to manage those DPS peaks (warp in or new wave spawn) and next to that as much gank as possible to keep the time intervals of incoming damage as short as possible.

So my inital guess was right: for such an inhomogeneous DPS time distribution, you don't focus on the sustained value, what matters is the max defence and the gank to keep the incoming damage intervals short.

Thanks again, guys!

your tank really looks a little weak for the harder raider/sansha missions. maybe you can replace the prop mod with an ancillary shield booster for those, as you usually do not need to travel, just orbit and shoot.

New School Navy Raven

7x t2 cruise launchers

1x t2 x-large shield booster
2x t2 shield booster amp
1x large micro jump drive
2x F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines + targeting range script

1x Photonic CPU Enhancer I
4x t2 bcs

3x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

8x light scouts
6x medium scouts


You can use other meta modules if you can not use t2 modules.

Mission fit:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/62671-Raven-Navy-Issue-CNR-Crazy-Bird-a-GUN.html

Tank is "set it and forget it". Cap stable, all you have to do is concentrate on killing stuff. Also, remember to keep moving (being a Tengu pilot, I am sure you know that).


B.

Cap Booster, haul 1 hauler full of 800s to your desired mission hub. That will end all your cap problems with 1 slot as said above.
Fit an X-Large Booster, pulse it as needed, when **** hits the fan and you need alot of tank, your cap booster will give you a very strong sustained tank for a very long time, long enough that if you haven't killed enough stuff to bring the dps down, something is wrong with you.

To make this fit work well you need high skills.

Ok, for the harder missions drop the afterburner and fit a hardener, makes quite a diff. Cnr pulse tank works best with a X-Large shield booster (pith X for example).

For myself , I use navy faction launchers with navy faction ammo, I prefer it to the tech II launchers and ammo. High slot I use a tractor because in some missions you have to pick up mission items and a tractor speeds that up.

The fit you are using requires max cap skills and even then its barely enough in some missions. Since you are using tech II load in precision ammo for the small stuff, drop a rigor rig or two for a CCC rig to help the tank.

If I want to kill all the ships in scarlet, this is the Battleship I use, load in all 4 types of ammo and FoF miss. Cnr may not have the most dps or the fastest, but it can do every mission out there well.