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Hulk needs love again
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Dark Gogg

Diablo Lobos

Likes received: 6

#1 - 2013-01-15 19:37:55 UTC

This has probably been said earlier, but I will say it again. The hulk needs a boost. it doesnt give the better yield compared to all the other barges that it deserves. Also the fact that you cannot run 2 cycles with T1 strip miners without the ore hold clogging up ure whole opreration. For all us relaxed miners out there it is very annoying.

The skiff have a nice EHP

The Mackinaw have a big orehold that can take 35 ice cubes divide by 2 and you have 16.5 cycles of icemining without anything stopping you. The Mackinaw have 4200 m3 mining yield per cycle. The ore hold are 35000 m3 at exhumer lvl 5.

The Hulk have yield at roughly 4800 m3 with T1 strip miners and have an ore hold at 8500 m3.

The skiff is for merx mining and always have. thats ok. Then CCP removed the dedication for ice mining for the mackinaw and gave all of them ore holds which boosted the mackinaw and nerfed the hulk.

I dont have a problem with the Hulks mining yield. if its bigger, the belts would just empty out and the ore war would be upon us. But please consider having the Hulk's ore hold boosted. it is bigger and require more skills to use.

I saw a post where Ore hold mods/rigs should be implemented is also a great idea. that could fix some of the problems. But as it stands, the hulk is bigger than the mack, and therefor should have a better yield and a bigger ore hold.

When people use the Retriever instead of the hulk, because the hulk is to expensive and too risky to use towards the result. and the richer ppl use the mackinaw cuz its easier to use. the Hulk will not be used anymore and the problem still persist with low usage of mining ships.

The orca is also so slow that it should have a much bigger ore hold. thats whats its for. and there are no major need for a a big cargohold. the Orca is also designed as the rorqual and should be able to stand in the field and give bonuses for a longer time. And the only way to do that is to boost its capability to store the ore.

Please r

The Scope Gallente Federation 1,705
sabre906 The Scope Gallente Federation Likes received: 1,705	#2 - 2013-01-15 19:42:49 UTC +1 If CCP thinks mineral faucet is too big and needs to be decreased, it should do so through legitimate means like flat out decreasing stripper yield, not indirectly through broken mechanics like this, ruining gameplay in the process.

Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 196
Fey Ivory Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation Likes received: 196	#3 - 2013-01-15 20:14:31 UTC 11 I dont agree... Skiff... used fordangerous operations, amacing tank Mackinaw... used for solo mining, huge orehold Hulk... used for fleet mining, best m3 out put you want best ore hold get a Mack

Skullspace Industries 169
Michael Loney Skullspace Industries Likes received: 169	#4 - 2013-01-15 20:23:36 UTC 2 Quote: I dont agree... Skiff... used fordangerous operations, amacing tank Mackinaw... used for solo mining, huge orehold Hulk... used for fleet mining, best m3 out put you want best ore hold get a Mack 100% agree, Hulk is for fleet ops, not for solo work unless you want to jet can and haul... oh wait, that's still not solo...

sabre906

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 1,705

#5 - 2013-01-15 20:25:26 UTC | Edited by: sabre906

Fey Ivory wrote:

I dont agree...

Skiff... used fordangerous operations, amacing tank

Mackinaw... used for solo mining, huge orehold

Hulk... used for fleet mining, best m3 out put

you want best ore hold get a Mack

Wrong. Hold large enough to hold only one cycle is broken. It needs to be at least 2, to make flipping viable without macro.

Omnathious Deninard

University of Caille

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 3,623

#6 - 2013-01-15 20:29:17 UTC

sabre906 wrote:

Fey Ivory wrote:

I dont agree...

Skiff... used fordangerous operations, amacing tank

Mackinaw... used for solo mining, huge orehold

Hulk... used for fleet mining, best m3 out put

you want best ore hold get a Mack

Wrong. Hold large enough to hold only one cycle is broken. It needs to be at least 2, to make flipping viable without macro.

How many hulks are you trying to run? The hulks hold is fine as is and it works great for fleet tops.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Omnathious Deninard

University of Caille

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 3,623

#7 - 2013-01-15 20:31:58 UTC

sabre906 wrote:

+1

If CCP thinks mineral faucet is too big and needs to be decreased, it should do so through legitimate means like flat out decreasing stripper yield, not indirectly through broken mechanics like this, ruining gameplay in the process.

This makes NO sense what so ever, if they thought the mineral faucet was too high then why would they have increased the mining yield on the the skiff procurer mackinaw and retriever.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

sabre906

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 1,705

#8 - 2013-01-15 20:32:49 UTC

Omnathious Deninard wrote:

sabre906 wrote:

Fey Ivory wrote:

I dont agree...

Skiff... used fordangerous operations, amacing tank

Mackinaw... used for solo mining, huge orehold

Hulk... used for fleet mining, best m3 out put

you want best ore hold get a Mack

Wrong. Hold large enough to hold only one cycle is broken. It needs to be at least 2, to make flipping viable without macro.

How many hulks are you trying to run? The hulks hold is fine as is and it works great for fleet tops.

As great as gun that holds one round of ammo. It needs to hold 2, not 1, to be workable. Bare minimum.

Omnathious Deninard

University of Caille

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 3,623

#9 - 2013-01-15 20:34:37 UTC

sabre906 wrote:

Omnathious Deninard wrote:

sabre906 wrote:

Fey Ivory wrote:

I dont agree...

Skiff... used fordangerous operations, amacing tank

Mackinaw... used for solo mining, huge orehold

Hulk... used for fleet mining, best m3 out put

you want best ore hold get a Mack

Wrong. Hold large enough to hold only one cycle is broken. It needs to be at least 2, to make flipping viable without macro.

How many hulks are you trying to run? The hulks hold is fine as is and it works great for fleet tops.

As great as gun that holds one round of ammo. It needs to hold 2, not 1, to be workable. Bare minimum.

Mine work fine as is, so I still fail to see the problem.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

sabre906

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 1,705

#10 - 2013-01-15 20:36:50 UTC

Omnathious Deninard wrote:

sabre906 wrote:

Omnathious Deninard wrote:

sabre906 wrote:

Fey Ivory wrote:

I dont agree...

Skiff... used fordangerous operations, amacing tank

Mackinaw... used for solo mining, huge orehold

Hulk... used for fleet mining, best m3 out put

you want best ore hold get a Mack

Wrong. Hold large enough to hold only one cycle is broken. It needs to be at least 2, to make flipping viable without macro.

How many hulks are you trying to run? The hulks hold is fine as is and it works great for fleet tops.

As great as gun that holds one round of ammo. It needs to hold 2, not 1, to be workable. Bare minimum.

Mine work fine as is, so I still fail to see the problem.

Good for you. Now leave and find your problem somewhere else.


Fey Ivory Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation Likes received: 196	#11 - 2013-01-15 20:44:15 UTC 4 Alright, lets keep it civil, thanks... oki im rather new, so maybe i dont understand... you get 4.8k m3 from your three stripminers... new cycle starts, and you got three mins, to drop a can, and move your ore into the can, what is it that dont work ?


Omnathious Deninard University of Caille Gallente Federation Likes received: 3,623	#12 - 2013-01-15 20:46:11 UTC Omnathious Deninard wrote: How many hulks are you trying to run? If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Dark Gogg

Diablo Lobos

Likes received: 6

#13 - 2013-01-15 21:04:38 UTC

Prior to the updates of the barges, the hulk could run 2 cycles of T2 strip miners with theyre correct T2 crystals. After the update they cannot hold 2 runs with T1 strip miners.

That is basicly too poor. while you are looking at other things suddenly ure strips have deactivated. And with orca bonuses, you only have 2 minutes without HW implants. And 2 minutes arent really that long. espacially if you got a hauler as well that are going back and forth full speed to keep the orca from not filling up


Omnathious Deninard University of Caille Gallente Federation Likes received: 3,623	#14 - 2013-01-15 21:11:53 UTC If you are actually watching the game 2 minutes is plenty of time. the hulk went from a solo ship to a fleet ship, you should be able to move that much ore every 2 minutes (though more realistically 3.5~3.75) around. If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

ShahFluffers

Ice Fire Warriors

Likes received: 11,726

#15 - 2013-01-15 21:14:39 UTC

Dark Gogg wrote:

But please consider having the Hulk's ore hold boosted. it is bigger and require more skills to use.

Err... the Hulk requires the same amount of skills as all the other Exhumers. Exhumers level 1.

Dark Gogg wrote:

the hulk is bigger than the mack, and therefor should have a better yield and a bigger ore hold.

This was already the case before the mining barge rebalance. The Hulk was superior to every other barge out there.

CCP wanted to make all the barges viable so they would all get used. So they took away the Hulk's ability to store ore and gave it to the Mackinaw. The Hulk is still the ultimate mining barge as it has the highest mining yield, but it requires a fleet to be truly effective. The other barges cannot mine as much, but make up for it in other ways.

Dark Gogg wrote:

When people use the Retriever instead of the hulk, because the hulk is to expensive and too risky to use towards the result. and the richer ppl use the mackinaw cuz its easier to use. the Hulk will not be used anymore and the problem still persist with low usage of mining ships.

"Low usage" is not always the fault of the ship. The Hulk works best when it is part of a team... sadly most people (especially miners) don't like working together because "it's MY ore... mine, mine mine!! Preciousssssssss...."

Quote:

The orca is also so slow that it should have a much bigger ore hold.

Ummm... 50k ore hold... 40k corporate hanger space... ~30 to 50k cargo hold...

That's about 120k to 140k m3 of space for ore storage. Sure, it's not all dedicated space... but it's not like you can't store the ore in those other holds.

How did you Veterans start?

Mole Guy

Bob's Bait and Tackle

Likes received: 458

#16 - 2013-01-15 21:40:58 UTC

have cake AND eat it too?

nawt.

if u wanna cut rock, then cut rock...use a hulk. just make sure you have someone to haul it for u.

if you wanna tank rats, tank rats...use a skiff. just doesnt hold as much.

if u wanna store ore so u dont have to haul as much, then pack it in...use a mack. just dont expect to cut as much as a hulk or tank as much as a skiff. plus u have the option to cut 2 different ores where as my skiff only cuts 1 at a time.

i think they rawk just as they are...but then again, i still remember cutting rock in a thorax on my main and a vexor on my alt. alt-tabbing every 45 seconds because the cargo on the rax was full. only being able to run 3 miner II's on 1/2 of the cycle and then the other 2 on the 2nd 1/2.

if u were around in the old days, you will be happy to receive the bone ccp threw us with the barges and exhumers.
and holding 35k at once? i can deal with 400m3 less to hold 35k ore.

Perkone Caldari State 571
Kusum Fawn Perkone Caldari State Likes received: 571	#17 - 2013-01-15 22:04:48 UTC I agree that there should be at least two cycles of T2 Strip w/ Crystal yield space in the ore hold on the Hulk. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Hakan MacTrew

Konrakas Forged

Solyaris Chtonium

Likes received: 914

#18 - 2013-01-15 22:09:28 UTC

Theres a pretty simple way to solve this issue.

Quote:

Skiffs are for mining in hostile area's, that's why they have such a huge buffer and gtfo potential. As a sacrifice, they pull in 9% less than a Mackinaw. They can also hold just under half the amount of ore that a Mackinaw can in their ore bay.

Mackinaws are for solo mining, that's why they have such a huge ore bay. They also have a pretty solid buffer tank.

Hulks are for mining in fleets, that's why they have such a massive yield, 20% above that of a Mackinaw. As a sacrifice, have a smaller ore bay and a weaker tank.

So, if your unable to use a hulk becauseyour running so many accounts that 2 minutes, (which is the very lowest amount of time a Strip Miner can cycle,) is not long enough for you to tab through all the accounts and dump the ore in an Orca, then you have two options:
1 - Take the 20% yield hit and switch down to Mackinaws as they can hold enough for for at least 12 minutes. You may actually find that this will allow a greater yield overal, given how much of a mirco-management issue you obviously have with all those accounts on the go at once.
2 - Drop some accounts. It would be so much easier for you to fleet mine with less of a "macro-farm" op going on.
Please note there is not a 3rd option labeled 'Whinge and moan like a little girl who droped her ice cream'.

All these ships can pull in Mercoxit, Ice and Ore perfectly well in their own niche ways. They have their roles. No one ship is the perfect ship for everything. If you haven't noticed, these shiney new Exhumers and Barges no longer need all those cargo expanders and rigs to be remotely useful. That means that your investment in the hull will yield more per cycle, (because you can now fit more Mining Laser Upgrades,) and be so much more survivable, (especially with the extender rigs and DC2.) And yet, you ingrates have the audacity to complain because the buff to your ship of choice fell short of making it all singing and all dancing with bells on. Well boo hoo.

If you decide you no longer wish to use your armada of hulks, I am sure someone from the New Order would happily help you out with a smart-phoon.

Friends

Secular Wisdom 1,499
Vaju Enki Secular Wisdom Likes received: 1,499	#19 - 2013-01-15 23:04:40 UTC The Hulk is fine, but the AFK mining barges are not fine and need a nerf (ore cargo hold reduced). The Tears Must Flow

Maraque Enterprises Just let it happen 434
Goldensaver Maraque Enterprises Just let it happen Likes received: 434	#20 - 2013-01-15 23:26:24 UTC This thread again? Hulk is fine, if you wanna solo or reduce input then fly a mack. If you wanna make max ISK/hour then fly the hulk. CCP finally made it so the Hulk isn't the "I win" ship for miners. Now you get to choose according to what you are trying to achieve.