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Dreads and Nuets wtf?

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Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#21 - 2013-01-13 08:08:51 UTC
Protection against Neuts is what your support fleet is there for.

While a single Falcon might (if siege didn't provide EWar protection) be able to seriously disrupt a small siege with hit and fade tactics, a Curse would have to remain on the field for a long time to do any significant damage and is vulnerable to engagement by your support during that time.
If you've lost the support battle then it seems perfectly reasonable to me that the hostile support is able to mob your capitals.

The Target Spectrum Breaker, particularly with the low max targets and slow lock of dreads does seem like an oversight (which perhaps needs to be bug reported) however.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#22 - 2013-01-13 08:50:26 UTC
When it comes down to it, it is a balance measure. It allows a smaller, but better organized force to take down capital ships if they work together properly.

In the end, capital ships aren't designed to work on their own. They're designed to have a support fleet. And if your support fleet can't kill/counterneut the enemy, then they've lost the fight. The real question becomes why did the support fleet fail (or why did their support fleet succeed).
Bubanni
Primal Instinct Inc.
The Initiative.
#23 - 2013-01-13 10:15:08 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
No, a capital sized cap booster would create more problems than you realise as it effectively means caps can jump around MUCH faster. We need LESS projected power from capitals, not more.



you mean like capitals have already?... two options making you able to jump around as fast as you can get cynos... jumping into a station and docking for cap... or fit a ton of cap recharging modules... the idea of larger cap booster wont change that, specially if you make the charges expensive... people would prefere the older option then

However the cap booster would allow more capitals to remain functional for longer... is this something we really need?

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Dave stark
#24 - 2013-01-13 10:37:57 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
A dread when in siege mode cannot be affected by e-war or assistance mods...

you cannot jam/scram/rsd/ecm or use ET/rr/eccm/rsb...

So why can you use a nuet on them?


because a neut isn't e-war.
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2013-01-13 11:09:34 UTC
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Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#26 - 2013-01-13 13:24:50 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
But how are RNK supposed to fight if they cant neut the dreads?



adapt?

i still would like to see capital neuts and nos plus capital cap injector...

the cap nuet/nos would have a sig radius restriction that would make it so they dont work on sub caps...


I was just joking. But Lady Naween has some good points.


But capacitor warfare is one of the few counters a group of subcap ships has against caps. By allowing a cap blob to do the neuting as well you just end up with 1 less reason to field a subcap support fleet. Caps aren't supposed to be able to do everything on their own.

While neuting is an effective way to counter sieged dreads, it might be a bit too powerful. But as stated before, cap sized capacitor boosters will become too powerful. Maybe cap sized capacitor batteries (with enough neut protection to make it worth it) is the solution.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#27 - 2013-01-13 18:58:14 UTC
Does the ECM Bomb affect sieged/triaged caps too?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#28 - 2013-01-13 20:02:01 UTC
No. Remote ECM Burst used to, but I'm pretty sure it was ruled a bug and removed.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#29 - 2013-01-13 20:18:22 UTC
Mizhir wrote:


While neuting is an effective way to counter sieged dreads, it might be a bit too powerful. But as stated before, cap sized capacitor boosters will become too powerful. Maybe cap sized capacitor batteries (with enough neut protection to make it worth it) is the solution.


hmm i like that idea because they made cap bats somewhat nueting immunity a while ago right?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#30 - 2013-01-13 20:28:09 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
No, a capital sized cap booster would create more problems than you realise as it effectively means caps can jump around MUCH faster. We need LESS projected power from capitals, not more.


Spool up times and mass limits on cynos would do a much better job compared to third row balancing practices like this.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-01-13 20:30:56 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
No, a capital sized cap booster would create more problems than you realise as it effectively means caps can jump around MUCH faster. We need LESS projected power from capitals, not more.


Spool up times and mass limits on cynos would do a much better job compared to third row balancing practices like this.


wow make the cyno like a wh where you have a mass limit?

Brilliant idea there...

no seriously... thats a really really really good idea...

no longer can you jump 40 sc and 20 titans with just one cyno...

you would need like 8 for that or something reasonable... heck i would do the same for titan bridges too...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Vigo Carpath
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-01-14 23:24:06 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
No, a capital sized cap booster would create more problems than you realise as it effectively means caps can jump around MUCH faster. We need LESS projected power from capitals, not more.


Spool up times and mass limits on cynos would do a much better job compared to third row balancing practices like this.


I don't often like posts on EVE-O forums.

This one got a like!
Rajere
Vicious Inc
#33 - 2013-01-15 07:31:46 UTC
fukier wrote:
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
No, a capital sized cap booster would create more problems than you realise as it effectively means caps can jump around MUCH faster. We need LESS projected power from capitals, not more.


Spool up times and mass limits on cynos would do a much better job compared to third row balancing practices like this.


wow make the cyno like a wh where you have a mass limit?

Brilliant idea there...

no seriously... thats a really really really good idea...

no longer can you jump 40 sc and 20 titans with just one cyno...

you would need like 8 for that or something reasonable... heck i would do the same for titan bridges too...

mass limit might work for capital ships but would need a different mechanic for bridging. The minimum mass limit would have to be around 2.4bil kg to enable a single erebus to jump to a cyno. Also with a mass limit that low each cyno could only move a single titan or single sc, so realistically you'd need a much higher mass limit to allow something like 5 titans or 8-9 sc's. However for bridging even with the minimum mass limit you'd still be able to bridge a fleet of around 200 zealots/guardians to a single cyno.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#34 - 2013-01-15 14:14:13 UTC
I blaster moros can overpower a carriers tank easily. In a DPS wormhole it can straight up solo logistics fleets. Cap warfare in capital vessels is essential. Changing neuts effect on a dreadnought means changing capital warfare to off-set it.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#35 - 2013-01-15 14:35:12 UTC
Rajere wrote:

mass limit might work for capital ships but would need a different mechanic for bridging. The minimum mass limit would have to be around 2.4bil kg to enable a single erebus to jump to a cyno. Also with a mass limit that low each cyno could only move a single titan or single sc, so realistically you'd need a much higher mass limit to allow something like 5 titans or 8-9 sc's. However for bridging even with the minimum mass limit you'd still be able to bridge a fleet of around 200 zealots/guardians to a single cyno.



Then you have 2 limits, mass, and maximum number of ships. Whichever you hit first, the cyno dies.


The reality is that cyno cap warfare is easily the worst example of pvp I've ever seen, in any mmo and needs to be nerfed asap.
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#36 - 2013-01-15 17:50:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tul Breetai
Technically, neuts are both secondary ewar and a primary weapon system, and at the same time are kinda neither (or just unconventional). No, making the "neut... therefore energy trans isn't remote" yadda yadda isn't a logical connection. I've always just considered neuts exceptions for simplicity's sake.

Speaking of illogical connections...


MeBiatch wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
What's a "nuet"?



please see this


I know what energy neutralizers are. That doesn't have anything to do with "nuet".


ah you are talking about a spelling error please see my sig


Typical.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Vigo Carpath
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-01-15 17:52:47 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Rajere wrote:

mass limit might work for capital ships but would need a different mechanic for bridging. The minimum mass limit would have to be around 2.4bil kg to enable a single erebus to jump to a cyno. Also with a mass limit that low each cyno could only move a single titan or single sc, so realistically you'd need a much higher mass limit to allow something like 5 titans or 8-9 sc's. However for bridging even with the minimum mass limit you'd still be able to bridge a fleet of around 200 zealots/guardians to a single cyno.



Then you have 2 limits, mass, and maximum number of ships. Whichever you hit first, the cyno dies.


The reality is that cyno cap warfare is easily the worst example of pvp I've ever seen, in any mmo and needs to be nerfed asap.



I don't think it would change much though. Everyone would just have to have a cyno fit then swap it out once the fleet lands and the fight begins.
Not a Troll
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-01-15 22:37:36 UTC
From a logical point of view: It make no sense that neuts work and energy xfers dont.
From a balance point of view: It's pretty nice. There is still ways to kinda counter this.

Now, we are talking about internet spaceships, i dont think logic have much to do here.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#39 - 2013-01-15 23:14:59 UTC
Oh god, the Triage Carriers. Brick tanked mega-triage Carriers. If they could energy transfer to each other then that would be ridiculous. Both just run the Triage modules and run the local reps (with a full tank setup since they don't need cap mods) allowing them to tank almost anything, meanwhile giving out remote reps constantly to everyone else while sharing cap between each other.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#40 - 2013-01-16 00:37:03 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Oh god, the Triage Carriers. Brick tanked mega-triage Carriers. If they could energy transfer to each other then that would be ridiculous. Both just run the Triage modules and run the local reps (with a full tank setup since they don't need cap mods) allowing them to tank almost anything, meanwhile giving out remote reps constantly to everyone else while sharing cap between each other.


And with 100+ sens strength :/
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