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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Building and trading

Author
Tisen Tisen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-01-13 18:49:51 UTC
Hi

So im really into market trading, building and then selling on the market. First i was building afterburners, and made a profit of about 2 mill, then im making 1000 antimatter charges for a profit of about 2 mill also. But i mean, it takes about 2-3 days to make it, and the profit is to low. i can make that amount of money by mining and direct selling it in alot shorter time.

ive tried to analyze the market and calculating but apperently not enough, so i was wondering whats better to build, give more profit and general thoughts on how to build and sell.

I understand that it depends on where you trade and prices goes up and down, but general tips you guys have would be highly appreciated.

Best regards.

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-01-13 19:14:24 UTC
Tisen Tisen wrote:
Hi

So im really into market trading, building and then selling on the market. First i was building afterburners, and made a profit of about 2 mill, then im making 1000 antimatter charges for a profit of about 2 mill also. But i mean, it takes about 2-3 days to make it, and the profit is to low. i can make that amount of money by mining and direct selling it in alot shorter time.

ive tried to analyze the market and calculating but apperently not enough, so i was wondering whats better to build, give more profit and general thoughts on how to build and sell.

I understand that it depends on where you trade and prices goes up and down, but general tips you guys have would be highly appreciated.

Best regards.



No real industrial guy will tell you what to build for good profit as it will mean they will cut their own share in the market.

Also, markets are changing every second, markets differ between regions, etc etc. So nobody can tell you to make Item X, you have to look at your own market.

The downside of production as a newer player is that you are competing with bigger, higher skilled and more whealthier guys that have bigger and more efficient production running.

It's like opening a fast food shop in between McDonalds and Burger King. You will get some customers, but the other 2 are big and have their reputation to throw in some extra weight.

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Merouk Baas
#3 - 2013-01-13 19:16:32 UTC
Understand that you're not really asking for general tips, you're asking for specifics (what's most profitable), and manufacturers and traders won't reveal that to you (they don't want you competing with them on the stuff that makes them profit).

You're going to have to think of manufacturing separately from trading.

Manufacturing deals with what blueprints you have and what blueprints you can acquire, whether you can research them to improve materials and time, and where you can find manufacturing facilities that are available right away. The decision of what to build is determined by what you need and what you have blueprints for.

Trading, on the other hand, deals with profits. In general, you have trade hubs, where stuff sells a lot but you're competing with other traders, and they 0.01 isk you; you have mission hubs where ammo and T2 modules sell well; you have entry-points to lowsec, where you can sell ships, ammo, and modules, and generally buy minerals and loot for transport to the trade hub; and you have null-sec where it's possible to have monopoly by virtue of the fact that your alliance will shoot everyone else who tries to set up shop.

You also have variations over time; whenever a blueprint is introduced, such as the recent Venture ship and micro jump drive module, if you can get the blueprint you can probably sell at huge profit for a while, until the masses of other manufacturers also start making the things in bulk.

I'd say that everything is pretty much researched and the profits aren't that big no matter where you look. Because there are a lot of manufacturers out there. But diligence and searching may find you something.

Tech 2 modules and ships require you to find blueprint copies on Contracts from the invention people. T1 ships and modules are easy to find blueprints for, but may not sell in bulk in high-sec because people don't lose ships in high-sec all that much (sometimes they do - check the market for retrievers and other mining barges during a Hulkageddon period). Same for rigs - rigs cost a lot, but in high sec they don't blow up all that much. Ammo does get used, but you're talking harsh competition where 0.01 isk matters.
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#4 - 2013-01-13 23:54:42 UTC
1.find good volume items
2.filter the most profitable items
3.???
4.profit

max your industry and trading skills asap,get high standings with owner of your selling station (if you refine also with refining station),go to youtube to watch some market guides,buy researched BPCs...

Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-01-14 19:01:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Telegram Sam
I've had good luck building and selling consumables like ammo and drones. They tend to sell quick, which is good. As a primitive example, getting 1mil profit per day in quick turnover items is better than getting 5mil profit on a bigger item that takes a week to sell. That's 7mil per week as opposed to 5mil per week.

This site will give you a rough idea on the cost of building something vs. the current sell price. http://www.eve-markets.net/ But I don't think it takes into account the Material Efficiency of your BP, i.e. how much it personally costs you to build the item. And I think the data is from the whole EVE world, so it doesn't reflect your local costs and market prices. Or maybe there's a way to make it do that. I haven't thoroughly dug through the site, I just use it for rough estimates.
Bud Austrene
Secure Haven
#6 - 2013-01-14 21:06:00 UTC
You are operating at a distinct disadvantage.

To be an effective trader, you need experience and deep pockets.
On the experience side, you need to be able to develop a plan that deals with the "one-centers"
(if you can not figure out from market buy and sell orders what i mean by "one-centers", maybe trading is not for you.)
I assume you know that trading is about buying low and selling high.
For the deep pockets side, you can always buy Plex for that.
Although, I would suggest that earning the isk would be wiser as you gain experience in the process.
You should be able to find small, profitable trading that do not require deep pockets, and then of course reinvest those profits back into the trading and see your pockets deepen.
There are a lot of scams in trading, you need to recognize and understand them.

On the manufacturing side, you are right, mining would be more profitable in the beginning.
Manufacturing is very competitive.
You are competing against players that have streamlined their manufacturing to a point that you will have difficulty keeping pace with.
At least until, you can train the skills needed.
And until you can access the same tools they have (POS arrays), cheap materials and efficient blueprints.
While you work on that, you need to gain the knowledge of product demand and turnover.
That is, why would anyone want the afterburner or ammo that you can build?
Ammo is generally an good way to get started because it keeps getting used up and needs to be replaced.
But you need to know what are the most popular types of ammo in your area of operation.
The demand is not equal and you need to keep merchandize moving.

In trading, as well as manufacturing, turnover of product is paramount.
And right after that is profit margin.


Yes I am an alt. I see no reason to make it easy for bullies and greifers

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-01-14 22:07:30 UTC
Bud Austrene wrote:

(if you can not figure out from market buy and sell orders what i mean by "one-centers", maybe trading is not for you.)




You just made that term up Straight

We call them traders Big smile

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Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Bud Austrene
Secure Haven
#8 - 2013-01-14 22:21:02 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Bud Austrene wrote:

(if you can not figure out from market buy and sell orders what i mean by "one-centers", maybe trading is not for you.)




You just made that term up Straight

We call them traders Big smile


No I did not make it up.
I got it from the "Greedy Goblin's" blog.
He refers to them and details how he deals with them.(deep undercutting)

Yes I am an alt. I see no reason to make it easy for bullies and greifers

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-01-14 22:23:26 UTC
That's never stopped me, I'll take the profit loss just on principal... I'll win Straight

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Bud Austrene
Secure Haven
#10 - 2013-01-14 23:45:09 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
That's never stopped me, I'll take the profit loss just on principal... I'll win Straight


You don't win trading by losing money.
Besides i was not indorsing his approach.
But he does say it works for him.
But that is where I first heard about "one-centers"
Since then i do believe i have seen the term "one-centers" in other places but I am not sure.

Yes I am an alt. I see no reason to make it easy for bullies and greifers

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#11 - 2013-01-15 13:46:12 UTC
Set up shop just on the hi-sec edge of a really busy faction warfare low-sec system, like one jump away, and then crank out all the ammunition types you can think of.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#12 - 2013-01-15 13:55:30 UTC
With manufacturing, it's all about isk/hr/line

while 100,000k isk per hour, per line, doesn't sound like a lot, it's 72 million isk per day, for not a huge quantity of effort (3 characters on one account, 10 jobs per character.)
72 million isk per day is 2.16 billion isk per month.


Just make sure you're not just making the same thing with all of them. That leads to market saturation, which leads to no profit.

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Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-01-15 18:14:39 UTC
Its simple. Ask yourself what am I buying right now to run these missions or mine.......there is your answer . Manufacture what you use the most of and branch out from there. If you are using alot of mining crystals and are tired of buying them on the market then make some, actually make alittle extra and sell the extras on the market then you kill two birds with one stone.

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Tisen Tisen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-01-15 19:02:39 UTC
RomeStar wrote:
Its simple. Ask yourself what am I buying right now to run these missions or mine.......there is your answer . Manufacture what you use the most of and branch out from there. If you are using alot of mining crystals and are tired of buying them on the market then make some, actually make alittle extra and sell the extras on the market then you kill two birds with one stone.


Actually this is how im thinking right now, im still learning the game and testing different things so having several characters making stuff is not on my agenda right now, even though i see the point.
Cyis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-01-17 20:03:53 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Tisen Tisen wrote:
Hi

So im really into market trading, building and then selling on the market. First i was building afterburners, and made a profit of about 2 mill, then im making 1000 antimatter charges for a profit of about 2 mill also. But i mean, it takes about 2-3 days to make it, and the profit is to low. i can make that amount of money by mining and direct selling it in alot shorter time.

ive tried to analyze the market and calculating but apperently not enough, so i was wondering whats better to build, give more profit and general thoughts on how to build and sell.

I understand that it depends on where you trade and prices goes up and down, but general tips you guys have would be highly appreciated.

Best regards.



No real industrial guy will tell you what to build for good profit as it will mean they will cut their own share in the market.

Also, markets are changing every second, markets differ between regions, etc etc. So nobody can tell you to make Item X, you have to look at your own market.

The downside of production as a newer player is that you are competing with bigger, higher skilled and more whealthier guys that have bigger and more efficient production running.

It's like opening a fast food shop in between McDonalds and Burger King. You will get some customers, but the other 2 are big and have their reputation to throw in some extra weight.

They also can afford to take a large short term cut in profits to keep you from stealing customers.
Kathern Aurilen
#16 - 2013-01-17 22:23:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Kathern Aurilen
Do what I did... watch the contracts for a decently material researched BPO(the last ship BPO I got cost me 2 billionShocked but was researched up to 85ME, witch I make that in 2-3 weeks mining and playing around). Don't buy one of the market unless you have a good way to research it, like your own POS or something. I been trying to get a Algos BPO researched at a local NPC research station for a month...just 20days of waiting to do the research, it'll be another 30 days research to get to 12Evil, so it'll be atleast 12 months before its worth anything to me...I been trying to get ahold of local research corps that I can hire to do the research for me.... minimal luck... found someone that will CONSIDER it after I when they done doing research to build a rorquial(I'm thinking 6 months :(X

I try not to over flow a market flood a market, 3-5 a day, and I try not to undercut the lowest bid, just try to be lower than the whole sellers, plus I lucked out, I'm 5 jumps off of a trade hub, and nobody is selling what I'm making locally for 5 jumps(or more than likely they just unloading it on the trade hub) so I pretty much got the "2 mill not worth the travel" market.
.......................................
Oh I found a manufacturing tool and profit calculator http://eve.battleclinic.com/manufacturing_tool.php

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