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SuperCapital and Force projection is way too easy in EvE
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Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#121 - 2013-01-14 21:22:52 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
fukier wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
So you enjoy travelling 30 jumps?

I don't, nor does it make anything feel "bigger" to me.

When I want to feel how big EVE is, I look at the map an the thousands of points I can visit.

Nor are titans used for general purpose travel through EVE, and when I gotta go 5 jumps through null, that **** feels huge.


but did you not say you can undock from vfk and find a fight? is it not your own fault for creating mega coalitions that causes the need to move 30 plus jumps to get a fight?

you could if you wanted reset someone like i dunno FA or SMA and fight them or even Razor... its your choice not to...

So according to you he said he can undock and find a fight right away, and then he said he can't find a fight without going 30 jumps.
Make up your mind already.

I was so confused when i read that.

Apparently I'm so good I write **** I wasn't even aware of.

Nerf my subconsious already, it's not intended!
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#122 - 2013-01-14 21:23:26 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
[quote=fukier]

A titan and a cyno can move you from one side of EVE to the other in a single jump?


No, but certainly in a single night, which is far to quick.

Yes, I used to fly in null and ride the titan bridge roads a few years back.

Okay, let's just arbitrarily pick an amount of time it should take, since you're obviously not going to be happy until everything fits with your preconceived notion of how things should be.



Ah yes, an excellent counter.

It doesn't have to fit my "ideal" time. What I'm looking for is a particular somewhat vague end state.
Large orgs can't power project as nearly far as they can now. Which will open up space to a lot more holders, which means more pilots in null, for even more battles.

It would prbably take several tries to get anything close to right. Which is probably why CCP hasn't decided to tackle this one yet.
Yes, it was recognized as a problem. Welcome to several years ago. Blink
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#123 - 2013-01-14 21:24:10 UTC
fukier wrote:

i am sure ifyou actually had to jump 40+ jumps to find a real fight with out Titan brdiges and stuff 0.0 would be alot more intersting...

lol
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#124 - 2013-01-14 21:26:49 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
- Ahm i moved few times from vale to Omist. And took for my ex Corp (with no so good experience) about not even 30 mins to get there with all our stuff. (5 bridges)

Let's take a really southern system in Vale, a northern system in Omist, and see how many titan bridges it takes to go from one to the other, assuming the titan pilot has JDC 5.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/jump/Avatar,554/C-J7CR:9MWZ-B
Oh look, 10 jumps.
Something tells me you're either exaggerating or fabricating.

Zloco Crendraven wrote:
- Even if the Timer is 30 mins they d be in time. Keeping that assets that easy should be a at least a bit of a hassle.

So maybe your quarrel has more to do with reinforcement timers than force projection?

Zloco Crendraven wrote:
- I live in lowsec for already 1 year and we did those 3 jumps billion of times cos of our nomad style of life, and guess what, it takes 5-10 mins.

Yeah, okay. Roll

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#125 - 2013-01-14 21:26:55 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
fukier wrote:

i am sure ifyou actually had to jump 40+ jumps to find a real fight with out Titan brdiges and stuff 0.0 would be alot more intersting...

lol


And there would be less blues around 0.0 which would do nth but good.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#126 - 2013-01-14 21:27:07 UTC
fukier wrote:

i am sure ifyou actually had to jump 40+ jumps to find a real fight with out Titan brdiges and stuff 0.0 would be alot more intersting...


Actually, null was a lot more fun in many ways before the Titan bridge.

I still have fond memories of long frieghter escorts before all these bridges and jump capable frieghters.
Some very interesting and exciting times.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#127 - 2013-01-14 21:29:55 UTC
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
fukier wrote:

i am sure ifyou actually had to jump 40+ jumps to find a real fight with out Titan brdiges and stuff 0.0 would be alot more intersting...


Actually, null was a lot more fun in many ways before the Titan bridge.

I still have fond memories of long frieghter escorts before all these bridges and jump capable frieghters.
Some very interesting and exciting times.

Funny thing.

More poeple are playing EVE now, and more people are playing in null.

The game you guys keep asking for, was one that very few people wanted to play.

Jeez, I wonder if that's a coinsidence.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#128 - 2013-01-14 21:30:27 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
- Ahm i moved few times from vale to Omist. And took for my ex Corp (with no so good experience) about not even 30 mins to get there with all our stuff. (5 bridges)

Let's take a really southern system in Vale, a northern system in Omist, and see how many titan bridges it takes to go from one to the other, assuming the titan pilot has JDC 5.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/jump/Avatar,554/C-J7CR:9MWZ-B
Oh look, 10 jumps.
Something tells me you're either exaggerating or fabricating.

Zloco Crendraven wrote:
- Even if the Timer is 30 mins they d be in time. Keeping that assets that easy should be a at least a bit of a hassle.

So maybe your quarrel has more to do with reinforcement timers than force projection?

Zloco Crendraven wrote:
- I live in lowsec for already 1 year and we did those 3 jumps billion of times cos of our nomad style of life, and guess what, it takes 5-10 mins.

Yeah, okay. Roll


- Might be but it was still less than 30 mins :D
- Nah it is about force projection. Timers are just fine.
- See, too easy.

Also Nullsec alliances keeping moon all around lowsec, why? because they can defend it whenever they want without any big hassle.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#129 - 2013-01-14 21:31:14 UTC
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
fukier wrote:

i am sure ifyou actually had to jump 40+ jumps to find a real fight with out Titan brdiges and stuff 0.0 would be alot more intersting...


Actually, null was a lot more fun in many ways before the Titan bridge.

I still have fond memories of long frieghter escorts before all these bridges and jump capable frieghters.
Some very interesting and exciting times.

oh you mean back in the day when smart people just used their non-ship specific 140km3 cargo bay carrier?
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#130 - 2013-01-14 21:32:19 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
- Ahm i moved few times from vale to Omist. And took for my ex Corp (with no so good experience) about not even 30 mins to get there with all our stuff. (5 bridges)

Let's take a really southern system in Vale, a northern system in Omist, and see how many titan bridges it takes to go from one to the other, assuming the titan pilot has JDC 5.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/jump/Avatar,554/C-J7CR:9MWZ-B
Oh look, 10 jumps.
Something tells me you're either exaggerating or fabricating.

Zloco Crendraven wrote:
- Even if the Timer is 30 mins they d be in time. Keeping that assets that easy should be a at least a bit of a hassle.

So maybe your quarrel has more to do with reinforcement timers than force projection?

Zloco Crendraven wrote:
- I live in lowsec for already 1 year and we did those 3 jumps billion of times cos of our nomad style of life, and guess what, it takes 5-10 mins.

Yeah, okay. Roll


- Might be but it was still less than 30 mins :D
- Nah it is about force projection. Timers are just fine.
- See, too easy.

Also Nullsec alliances keeping moon all around lowsec, why? because they can defend it whenever they want without any big hassle.

I'm sure it's nothing to do with capital production. Nah, can't be.
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#131 - 2013-01-14 21:35:12 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
fukier wrote:

i am sure ifyou actually had to jump 40+ jumps to find a real fight with out Titan brdiges and stuff 0.0 would be alot more intersting...


Actually, null was a lot more fun in many ways before the Titan bridge.

I still have fond memories of long frieghter escorts before all these bridges and jump capable frieghters.
Some very interesting and exciting times.

Funny thing.

More poeple are playing EVE now, and more people are playing in null.

The game you guys keep asking for, was one that very few people wanted to play.

Jeez, I wonder if that's a coinsidence.


It must be those who have never experinced null at a time before Titans, JBs, and JFs doen't know what they are missing.
Of course to each their own. You may have and just didn't like it, but many long time players, including myself, miss those times.

I was a lot funner, and fights came rather easy. Yes, there were plenty of fights before jump drivers and jump bridges.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#132 - 2013-01-14 21:36:18 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

I'm sure it's nothing to do with capital production. Nah, can't be.


That could be slowed down too, yep.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#133 - 2013-01-14 21:38:20 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
- Might be but it was still less than 30 mins :D

Less than 3 minutes per jump? Damn, your corp must have been incredibly well organized. Either that or you're pulling convenient numbers out of your ass to suit your argument. Seeing as you were wrong about the distance by a factor of two, I find it rather likely you were wrong about the time required by roughly the same amount.

Zloco Crendraven wrote:
- Nah it is about force projection. Timers are just fine.

So you think that we should be incapable of moving fleets several titan bridges in the amount of time it takes for a reinforcement timer to run down?
Because that's completely absurd.

Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Also Nullsec alliances keeping moon all around lowsec, why? because they can defend it whenever they want without any big hassle.

Even if it took a fleet of supercaps 5 hours to move across New Eden it wouldn't be a big hassle because reinforcement timers are so much longer than that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#134 - 2013-01-14 21:38:25 UTC
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:

It must be those who have never experinced null at a time before Titans, JBs, and JFs doen't know what they are missing.
Of course to each their own. You may have and just didn't like it, but many long time players,
Imperial Academy [IAC] from 2012.11.11 22:40 to this day
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#135 - 2013-01-14 21:39:31 UTC
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
fukier wrote:

i am sure ifyou actually had to jump 40+ jumps to find a real fight with out Titan brdiges and stuff 0.0 would be alot more intersting...


Actually, null was a lot more fun in many ways before the Titan bridge.

I still have fond memories of long frieghter escorts before all these bridges and jump capable frieghters.
Some very interesting and exciting times.

Funny thing.

More poeple are playing EVE now, and more people are playing in null.

The game you guys keep asking for, was one that very few people wanted to play.

Jeez, I wonder if that's a coinsidence.


It must be those who have never experinced null at a time before Titans, JBs, and JFs doen't know what they are missing.
Of course to each their own. You may have and just didn't like it, but many long time players, including myself, miss those times.

I was a lot funner, and fights came rather easy. Yes, there were plenty of fights before jump drivers and jump bridges.

That's understandable.

Some people liked EQ2 as it was when it first released, but devlopers can't really think about those people and still make a living. Sometimes things need to be improved for the greater good, and since there are far more poeple playing today than was even when I started in '05, I'm going to go with the idea that more poeple like EVE this way then they did in '03.

Hell, my brother thinks atari and nintendo was the good old days of gaming. I don't agree with him either.
SegaPhoenix
Chicks on Speed
Weapons Of Mass Production.
#136 - 2013-01-14 21:39:59 UTC
Remove Supers.
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#137 - 2013-01-14 21:43:57 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

That's understandable.

Some people liked EQ2 as it was when it first released, but devlopers can't really think about those people and still make a living. Sometimes things need to be improved for the greater good, and since there are far more poeple playing today than was even when I started in '05, I'm going to go with the idea that more poeple like EVE this way then they did in '03.

Hell, my brother thinks atari and nintendo was the good old days of gaming. I don't agree with him either.


But things can go too far. I think they have. Not everyone does.
We each say what we think, and CCP does what they think is best.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#138 - 2013-01-14 21:46:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

I'm sure it's nothing to do with capital production. Nah, can't be.


That could be slowed down too, yep.

It can be, find the PoS's and ******* blow them up.

Same goes for supers and titans in null. Find them, and then blow up the PoS's.


Why should CCP do the job for you?
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#139 - 2013-01-14 21:49:45 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
- Might be but it was still less than 30 mins :D

Less than 3 minutes per jump? Damn, your corp must have been incredibly well organized. Either that or you're pulling convenient numbers out of your ass to suit your argument. Seeing as you were wrong about the distance by a factor of two, I find it rather likely you were wrong about the time required by roughly the same amount.

Zloco Crendraven wrote:
- Nah it is about force projection. Timers are just fine.

So you think that we should be incapable of moving fleets several titan bridges in the amount of time it takes for a reinforcement timer to run down?
Because that's completely absurd.

Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Also Nullsec alliances keeping moon all around lowsec, why? because they can defend it whenever they want without any big hassle.

Even if it took a fleet of supercaps 5 hours to move across New Eden it wouldn't be a big hassle because reinforcement timers are so much longer than that.


- Klick jump > warp or approach (depends) > klick to jump >repeat. If u got any decent network, like most of Alliances/corp do it really dont need more then 3 mins per jump.
- You should be able to move the fleet within the timer ofc, but not while the enemy is still reinforcing it, lol.

- 5 hours would be too much lol. I am more in line like same time as its needed for subcap to reach a point trough gates.


BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#140 - 2013-01-14 21:52:04 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

I'm sure it's nothing to do with capital production. Nah, can't be.


That could be slowed down too, yep.

It can be, find the PoS's and ******* blow them up.

Same goes for supers and titans in null. Find them, and then blow up the PoS's.


Why should CCP do the job for you?


LoL u are funny.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.