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SuperCapital and Force projection is way too easy in EvE
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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2013-01-14 20:17:02 UTC
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
Didn't you guys know, only Goons can talk about Titans, since they and their pets have the moastest. P

If your alliance don't have one, you don't have a right to talk about how they are used. Blink

Nobody said anything of the sort.
If you actually have any logical points to bring to the table, I suggest you do so.



They most certainly have. Directly and indirectly.

Force projection has been a problem in this game for years and is directly related to how quickly a large force can cross the map.
CCP has ignored this since the most reasonable fixes would upset a significant portion of their most vocal players.

Some players don't want to lose the advantage they have, so they will do anything to deflect, disprove, or dilute any reasonable solution.


I'd like to hear what you consider a "reasonable fix".

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#62 - 2013-01-14 20:19:43 UTC
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
Didn't you guys know, only Goons can talk about Titans, since they and their pets have the moastest. P

If your alliance don't have one, you don't have a right to talk about how they are used. Blink

Nobody said anything of the sort.
If you actually have any logical points to bring to the table, I suggest you do so.



They most certainly have. Directly and indirectly.

Force projection has been a problem in this game for years and is directly related to how quickly a large force can cross the map.
CCP has ignored this since the most reasonable fixes would upset a significant portion of their most vocal players.

Some players don't want to lose the advantage they have, so they will do anything to deflect, disprove, or dilute any reasonable solution.


Obviously when they coded in the ability to do such a thing, it wasn't intended.

What is wrong with you people.
Just say it correctly for crying out loud.

YOU. DON'T. LIKE IT. That's all it is, because CCP INTENDED for us to be able to do this.

Maybe because it helps to facilitate large scale warfare across the ******* map, without the tedious need to travel 50 jumps, or to build a hundre of the damn things.

The mechanics are working as intended, it's your expectations that are wrong.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2013-01-14 20:21:02 UTC
Nullsec isn't stagnant enough, let's make it so things move even slower than they already do!

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-01-14 20:24:52 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Nullsec isn't stagnant enough, let's make it so things move even slower than they already do!

You don't understand!

The more tedious it is, the more people that will come to null, obviously.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#65 - 2013-01-14 20:26:13 UTC
Natsett Amuinn, to much back pedaling for me. I guess this is your technique after you are caught applying half ass'd debate tactics in a discussion . You are not the first and you are surely not the last.


I am just here to let you know that you are transparent to some of us. I hope I made your day spectacular Big smile

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
fukier
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2013-01-14 20:28:13 UTC
ok you guys really dont like the mass limit on cynos (well atleast the cfc peeps dont)

i have yet to read non cfc people complain about the idea (but the one guy posting with his alt sounds like he could be former bob)

but what about a spool up time for jump drives? (that way you cant et or cap recharge your way across the universe)

or do you think you should get from one side of teh universe to the other in under 30 min... ( i myself with my alts can get from stain to syndicate really fast in my thanny its just a matter of how fast i can cap up)

or titans having to be outside of a pos for the bridge to work?

those two ideas must seem reasonable...

the reason why i said mass limts for cyno's is to try to make some sort of restrictions for larger pvp... like you see in WH space... but for capital projection and fleet projection...

if it just ends up being a hassle thats cool... its just a suggestion. ( i know with Tidi and stuff like that that CCP markets Blobs and tahts cool with me)

I'm just looking for ways to spice things up...you know?

but like someone said earlier in the thread they had thier cyno char pop before everyone could jump which lead to them loosing the fight...

this sounds like a good thing and if there had to be multiple cynoes it would make it more interesting. (as from an outside perspective it should take mass amount of coordination to move massive fleets around... though some would argue this already takes place and its more then a resonable argument) 
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#67 - 2013-01-14 20:28:52 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Natsett Amuinn, to much back pedaling for me. I guess this is your technique after you are caught applying half ass'd debate tactics in a discussion . You are not the first and you are surely not the last.


I am just here to let you know that you are transparent to some of us. I hope I made your day spectacular Big smile

Now I'm backpedalling!!! lol, that's awesome.

Or is the obvious sarcasm in my last post not obvious to you? Whit is supposed to take intelligence, but I always considered saracsm the lowest form of whit and not requiring that much intelligence. Maybe I was wrong.
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#68 - 2013-01-14 20:29:55 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I'd like to hear what you consider a "reasonable fix".



To be honest, I don't think it will do any good. I'm still remembering Greyscale's comment at FF a couples years back when he said there are several things he would like to do, but trying to figure out which one he could get away with without getting shot has been the difficulty.
I'm sure he meant that figurtively, not literally.

As for reasonable fix; the problem is how quickly large forces can cross the know galaxy. The quicker you can cross the easier it is to defend large areas. "Power Projection"

The solution is to make it take longer, not make it harder. How long should it take? Well that is the question that is not easlily answered.

Ask twently people and you will get twently different answers, based upon their own interests.

The longer it takes to get from one place to another, the harder it will be for the larger orgs to project power. And many large orgs don't like this, even though it is in the interest of the long term health of the game.

So they will say anything to prevent that from happening, even denying that ther is a problem in the first place.
Hedion's oracle
Naari LLC
#69 - 2013-01-14 20:30:29 UTC
What does any of this matter anymore, since almost all of null is blue, hence nobody left to hot drop......fixed P

Error: Working As intended
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#70 - 2013-01-14 20:30:30 UTC
I have an idea. Big smile

Lets ask CCP to "Reset" EVE. Have everyone (and everything) start all over from scratch again. This way we can verify everyone`s theories.Roll
fukier
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2013-01-14 20:30:37 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Nullsec isn't stagnant enough, let's make it so things move even slower than they already do!


hmm so you are saying if it was harder to do force projection you would not rest your allies but would actually go 40-80 jumps just to find a fight?

and you guys call high sec players risk adverse?
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#72 - 2013-01-14 20:30:49 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Nullsec isn't stagnant enough, let's make it so things move even slower than they already do!

You don't understand!

The more tedious it is, the more people that will come to null, obviously.



No, but there will be a lot more room for others to come out.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#73 - 2013-01-14 20:32:41 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Natsett Amuinn, to much back pedaling for me. I guess this is your technique after you are caught applying half ass'd debate tactics in a discussion . You are not the first and you are surely not the last.


I am just here to let you know that you are transparent to some of us. I hope I made your day spectacular Big smile

Now I'm backpedalling!!! lol, that's awesome.

Or is the obvious sarcasm in my last post not obvious to you? Whit is supposed to take intelligence, but I always considered saracsm the lowest form of whit and not requiring that much intelligence. Maybe I was wrong.




Have you come to understand the meaning of "proliferation" yet or do I need to draw if for you in crayon? Big smile
Trust me it can be arranged.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#74 - 2013-01-14 20:32:57 UTC
fukier wrote:
ok you guys really dont like the mass limit on cynos (well atleast the cfc peeps dont)

i have yet to read non cfc people complain about the idea (but the one guy posting with his alt sounds like he could be former bob)

but what about a spool up time for jump drives? (that way you cant et or cap recharge your way across the universe)

or do you think you should get from one side of teh universe to the other in under 30 min... ( i myself with my alts can get from stain to syndicate really fast in my thanny its just a matter of how fast i can cap up)

or titans having to be outside of a pos for the bridge to work?

those two ideas must seem reasonable...

the reason why i said mass limts for cyno's is to try to make some sort of restrictions for larger pvp... like you see in WH space... but for capital projection and fleet projection...

if it just ends up being a hassle thats cool... its just a suggestion. ( i know with Tidi and stuff like that that CCP markets Blobs and tahts cool with me)

I'm just looking for ways to spice things up...you know?

but like someone said earlier in the thread they had thier cyno char pop before everyone could jump which lead to them loosing the fight...

this sounds like a good thing and if there had to be multiple cynoes it would make it more interesting. (as from an outside perspective it should take mass amount of coordination to move massive fleets around... though some would argue this already takes place and its more then a resonable argument)

....

I thought there was a spool up time for certian jump drives?

Titans outside a PoS sounds fine.


I don't think you made a particular conection though. It's not that we don't like the idea of improving things, we don't like the idea of nerfing things that facility large scale combat (most of us at least), because that's something unique to EVE.

Making it harder to move, is not better. It's tedious. Tedium doesn't improve things.

Null is intended for large scale player activity, and tools need to facilitate that, including the ability to move around large numbers quickly. No one wants to spend hours on end moving across the mob to engage in war, and CCP wants peopel to engae in large scale fights in null.
Hedion's oracle
Naari LLC
#75 - 2013-01-14 20:35:33 UTC
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Nullsec isn't stagnant enough, let's make it so things move even slower than they already do!

You don't understand!

The more tedious it is, the more people that will come to null, obviously.



No, but there will be a lot more room for others to come out.

Room to come out and do what? Get hotdropped by 100 Sc's or blued which is it? P

Error: Working As intended
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#76 - 2013-01-14 20:36:19 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Null is intended for large scale player activity, and tools need to facilitate that, including the ability to move around large numbers quickly. No one wants to spend hours on end moving across the mob to engage in war, and CCP wants peopel to engae in large scale fights in null.


And nothing says you can't do this in a larger playing environment. You will just have to choose your target more carefully, and make sure you leave forces at home to protect your assests at home.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2013-01-14 20:36:51 UTC
fukier wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Nullsec isn't stagnant enough, let's make it so things move even slower than they already do!


hmm so you are saying if it was harder to do force projection you would not rest your allies but would actually go 40-80 jumps just to find a fight?

and you guys call high sec players risk adverse?

You have yet to demonstrate why force projection and large scale warfare is a bad thing.
Maybe because it's what nullsec was designed for.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#78 - 2013-01-14 20:37:01 UTC
Hedion's oracle wrote:
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Nullsec isn't stagnant enough, let's make it so things move even slower than they already do!

You don't understand!

The more tedious it is, the more people that will come to null, obviously.



No, but there will be a lot more room for others to come out.

Room to come out and do what? Get hotdropped by 100 Sc's or blued which is it? P



They would be less likely to do that if it took longer to get to you. Blink
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2013-01-14 20:37:35 UTC
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Null is intended for large scale player activity, and tools need to facilitate that, including the ability to move around large numbers quickly. No one wants to spend hours on end moving across the mob to engage in war, and CCP wants peopel to engae in large scale fights in null.


And nothing says you can't do this in a larger playing environment. You will just have to choose your target more carefully, and make sure you leave forces at home to protect your assests at home.


Yeah, cause we definitely don't do this now.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-01-14 20:37:55 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Natsett Amuinn, to much back pedaling for me. I guess this is your technique after you are caught applying half ass'd debate tactics in a discussion . You are not the first and you are surely not the last.


I am just here to let you know that you are transparent to some of us. I hope I made your day spectacular Big smile

Now I'm backpedalling!!! lol, that's awesome.

Or is the obvious sarcasm in my last post not obvious to you? Whit is supposed to take intelligence, but I always considered saracsm the lowest form of whit and not requiring that much intelligence. Maybe I was wrong.




Have you come to understand the meaning of "proliferation" yet or do I need to draw if for you in crayon? Big smile
Trust me it can be arranged.

Give it a rest dude. I'm a grade A smartass, your insults are useless.

I embarass myself when I go out.

Oh, did you look at my drawing I posted?
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/kLZyu.jpg[/IMG]

I can give you art lessons if you'd like to improve your crayon drawing. They're really just cheap oil pastel, but you can do some impressive stuff with crayon.

This is proffesional color pencil and commision I'm working on now:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/gF8XD.jpg[/IMG]

If I can teach 6 year olds I'm sure I can eventually get through to you as well.