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The proposed new Brutix
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Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#41 - 2013-01-14 15:56:58 UTC
after years of nerfbats comes the years of boost pills ....

Frigs boosted > cruisers boosted > BCs going to receive love .... hmmm and who will use BSs or HACs?
Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#42 - 2013-01-14 16:01:58 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:
after years of nerfbats comes the years of boost pills ....

Frigs boosted > cruisers boosted > BCs going to receive love .... hmmm and who will use BSs or HACs?

everything's gonna get boosted
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#43 - 2013-01-14 18:36:53 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Nah, you totally missed the point if you think that the Binger is getting a DPS boost. The bonus is going up, sure, but it's getting a nerf to it's already tight fittings. Most Binger fittings were already split HPL/FMP and that trend is going to be made a bit worse. The tank nerf was pretty significant (~15-20%) and the massive mobility nerf was nothing to sneeze at. I'm having some trouble believing that anyone would claim the newly rebalanced Binger is in shouting distance of any of the other BCs.

Mobility nerf? its speed is still 150 m/s, as it always has, no? was the change to agility really that massive?
As far as DPS, I didn't look at fitting, I simply took he new bonus vs old bonuse at lvl 5 and the turret number: 1.5/1.25 *6/7 = 1.0286 -> nearly 3% more, before factoring in turret size.


I suppose you can try to spin the Harbinger changes via an illusory damage buff, but I don't know anyone who flies Amarr that thinks the change is an actual boost to the ship. As I said: there are a number of completely unnecessary nerfs to the Binger coming up - which is really funny considering the recent resurgence and success of ASB Cyclones/Feroxes. Even the Brutix has remained popular due to OMGDPS. At the current rate, the Harbinger is destined to go from exceedingly uncommon to simply non-existent.


Quote:

Quote:
A web would work better than a TC if you have the extra mid to spare. Unfortunately, what would work even better than that is moar tank. There's a reason that people are shield tanking everything in sight. Asking to remove the armor bonus for a "more useful one" and begging for another mid slot... who do you think you're fooling hear?

Well, the TC can help range... but yea, a 2nd web would be nice: 2x web, point, AB/MWD, and a cap booster- > 5 mids
As the the reason that people are shield tanking.... because armor tanking vs shield tank for sub caps is broken, and active tanking is broken (partially fixed for shields with the ASB) and until they fix that, any ship forced to active armor tank will be broken too.


I don't understand why you would try to armor tank a 5 low slot Brutix. If you're armor tanking the extra low slot lets you fit a mag stab, which would be a tremendous improvement over a second web *or* a TC.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#44 - 2013-01-14 18:46:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerick Ludhowe
Liang Nuren wrote:


I don't understand why you would try to armor tank a 5 low slot Brutix. If you're armor tanking the extra low slot lets you fit a mag stab, which would be a tremendous improvement over a second web *or* a TC.

-Liang


To be fair, a second web does open up the whole "pwn status" against any close range frig. Something that a single web brutix has trouble with, especially if drop boosters are not being used. A second web is tactically far superior to a TC as it allows for much better relative tracking, and allows for a significant advantage in dictating range.

Overall I do agree tho. 6th low probably does have a larger positive impact on an armor brutix than a 5th medslot.
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#45 - 2013-01-14 19:34:29 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
The rep/resist bonus should be selectable. If you want to buffer tank, then choose the resist bonus. If you want to active tank, then choose the rep bonus.

Selectable bonuses? The ship you're looking for is called the Proteus.
chris elliot
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#46 - 2013-01-14 22:48:29 UTC
4 slot tank and two damage modifiers to boot? Yes please!

Wish it was a teeny bit faster/more agile though since armor boats are really sluggish naturally.
General Foom
Foomonopoly
#47 - 2013-01-15 02:08:32 UTC  |  Edited by: General Foom
Ares Desideratus wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
after years of nerfbats comes the years of boost pills ....

Frigs boosted > cruisers boosted > BCs going to receive love .... hmmm and who will use BSs or HACs?

everything's gonna get boosted


Everything is going to get balanced!

NOT boosted or nerfed.

the obsession that people have with getting there favorite ship buffed
completely misses the point of providing more game-play options by Balancing ship tiers and classes
so there are no clearly superior options

if that means some more popular ships get nerfed or "not buffed as much as we want!!!!111eleven1"
then that is a successful outcome.

obviously were are only part way through the Balancing process so put your blah blah blah tech 2 ships in the hanger till summer and use tech 1 cruisers till then.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#48 - 2013-01-15 02:59:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerick Ludhowe
General Foom wrote:


Everything is going to get balanced!

NOT boosted or nerfed.



Uhhh, just in... Balance is usually achieved by "boosting and nerfing" ships.

Perfect example... Compared to the Brutix on live, the new changes most certainly "boost it" beyond it's current level of effectiveness.


Claiming that ships "are not boosted or nerfed" when it comes to balancing, is exceedingly short sighted.
General Foom
Foomonopoly
#49 - 2013-01-15 03:38:23 UTC  |  Edited by: General Foom
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
General Foom wrote:


Everything is going to get balanced!

NOT boosted or nerfed.



Uhhh, just in... Balance is usually achieved by "boosting and nerfing" ships.

Perfect example... Compared to the Brutix on the live, the new changes most certainly "boost it" beyond it's current level of effectiveness.


Claiming that ships "are not boosted or nerfed" when it comes to balancing, is exceedingly short sighted.


No.

what is short sighted is thinking/talking about the Boost/nerf aspect of ship changes in a vacuum
instead of objectively considering the changes in the context of the Attempted to Balance them across all tiers and classes.
which is the stated objective of the whole exercise and the reason we are having this discussion.

Yes changes made to ships will make them better or worse (subjectively)
but the end(balance) justifies the means(ship changes)

what is "exceedingly short sighted" is taking changes meant to achieve balance out of context
and viewing them, simply put, as just "Buff of nerfs". to you favorite ship,
which is unhelpful at best and and a complete waste of time and effort at worst

add to that the making of many forums posts about how your awesome ship has been broken by CCP because they hate Minmitar or some other equally absurd Proposition.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#50 - 2013-01-15 03:53:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerick Ludhowe
General Foom wrote:

No.

what is short sighted is thinking/talking about the Boost/nerf aspect of ship changes in a vacuum
instead of objectively considering the changes in the context of the Attempted to Balance them across all tiers and classes.
which is the stated objective of the whole exercise and the reason we are having this discussion.

Yes changes made to ships will make them better or worse (subjectively)
but the end(balance) justifies the means(ship changes)

what is "exceedingly short sighted" is taking changes meant to achieve balance out of context
and viewing them, simply put, as just "Buff of nerfs". to you favorite ship,
which is unhelpful at best and and a complete waste of time and effort at worst

add to that the making of many forums posts about how your awesome ship has been broken by CCP because they hate Minmitar or some other equally absurd Proposition.

but I'm guessing you think that kind of thing is worthwhile?


So, explain to me this. Is the brutix gaining more grid, loosing mass, gaining cargo and gaining a low a buff? Is the cane loosing a high slot, gaining mass, gaining sig, loosing cargo and loosing grid a nerf?

If you're claiming that these specific changes are anything else you're simply incorrect.

As for the tid bit about "but i'm guessing you think that kind of thing is worthwhile"... Please keep the strawmans to yourself... I've never supported the cries related to justified nerfs.
General Foom
Foomonopoly
#51 - 2013-01-15 04:46:06 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
General Foom wrote:

No.

what is short sighted is thinking/talking about the Boost/nerf aspect of ship changes in a vacuum
instead of objectively considering the changes in the context of the Attempted to Balance them across all tiers and classes.
which is the stated objective of the whole exercise and the reason we are having this discussion.

Yes changes made to ships will make them better or worse (subjectively)
but the end(balance) justifies the means(ship changes)

what is "exceedingly short sighted" is taking changes meant to achieve balance out of context
and viewing them, simply put, as just "Buff of nerfs". to you favorite ship,
which is unhelpful at best and and a complete waste of time and effort at worst

add to that the making of many forums posts about how your awesome ship has been broken by CCP because they hate Minmitar or some other equally absurd Proposition.

but I'm guessing you think that kind of thing is worthwhile?


So, explain to me this. Is the brutix gaining more, grid, loosing mass, and gaining a low a buff? Is the cane loosing a high slot and grid a nerf?

If you're claiming that these specific changes are anything else you're simply incorrect.

As for the tid bit about "but i'm guessing you think that kind of thing is worthwhile"... Please keep the strawmans to yourself... I've never supported the cries related to justified nerfs.


listen guy

What i am saying is very clearly written in my preceding post.
if you had read it you would know exactly what I'm claiming and you wouldn't have to ask to clarify your understanding
I sincerely hope you do go back and read it again and try to understand

yes the changes to ships can be categorized as buffs or nerfs
why you think i disagree with this is beyond me?

my point being that we should always view the changes in context
and not get to attached to our special pwnmobile ..or expect CCP should make our PWNmobile even better
if that isn't inline with the overarching balance directive
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