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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

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Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2011-10-24 22:54:58 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:


CCP never kept it a secret that they were developing the Incarna tech for both games.


Ranger, I have to point out that if they were developing Incarna for both games then should they still be developing in the absence of WoD? They shelved WoD and now they're not working on Incarna. Sounds a lot like they were developing for WoD, not Eve. We just happened to be a convenient test platform. That fact alone should make most people feel disappointed in how CCP has been operating.

Don't ban me, bro!
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#102 - 2011-10-24 22:57:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
arcca jeth wrote:


CCP should do the smart thing, survey their subscribers/non-subscribers. I wouldn't rely on trolls for my information on what the players want.


Easy question: How to do this and not get the trolls.
They cant even do the CSM like that

Also, again, CCP's history shows (two years on stalled EVE development to focus on Incarna, the side game, releases one room) they CANT do the "both can live why not do that" crap, so what history and fact are you all basing your statements of "they can do both, I didnt say stop work on spaceships" on?

Mr Kidd wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:


CCP never kept it a secret that they were developing the Incarna tech for both games.


Ranger, I have to point out that if they were developing Incarna for both games then should they still be developing in the absence of WoD? They shelved WoD and now they're not working on Incarna. Sounds a lot like they were developing for WoD, not Eve. We just happened to be a convenient test platform. That fact alone should make most people feel disappointed in how CCP has been operating.


Funny thing is I made that point in the post he quoted

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Jenny Spitfire
LoneStar Industries
#103 - 2011-10-24 23:00:01 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Jenny Spitfire wrote:
I support more of doing something with 3D characters. It is a shame to leave things as they are now.


Genuine Jenny...


No, I am serious. It is a good idea that can add an extra dimension to Eve and sadly, it is taken away. It is issues like this sometimes is killing the game.

Players especially old players being too rigid or conservative and cannot accept changes whether it may be good or bad. The bottom line, however, it is played, is just bitter vet syndrome.

If Eve started with 3D characters and micro-transactions, we will not have such conversation today.
Rishard DuMonte
Maelstrom Crew
#104 - 2011-10-24 23:02:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Rishard DuMonte
Just for shitz and grins, lets say WIS is implemented. What, exactly, do you want to do?

Do you think it will be "The Sims in Space"?

Unless there is some grand plan where I can actually bury my GSC full of dead hookers in the sands of some barren sh*thole, or steal tips from the Caldari talent I employ in "Rishard's Skin Emporium", I don't want to WIS.

No offense OP, but you should unsub EVE and give "Suckond Life" a try instead.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#105 - 2011-10-24 23:03:37 UTC
Tristan North wrote:
Kengutsi Akira wrote:


There is no FiS Its called EVE
Get it right at least

Really?
Spaceships&Explosions is EvE? Thought it was a game with a lot of stuffs.


re read what YOU wrote then try it again with the brain cells firing please...

"there is no FiS"

FiS Is a term created by CCP - a company so out of touch with their own game, they thought they could split the game in two pieces in their own minds and that would be great. FiS means (as you seem to equate it somehow to "Spaceships&Explosions" only) Flying in Space.

And again, if youre one of those people that DOESNT think this game is about flying spaceships, yeah, youre free to unsub an move on. We dont need you.

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Khira Kitamatsu
#106 - 2011-10-24 23:12:23 UTC
War Kitten wrote:


I'd rather have something useful to the gameplay like engine trails tbh.


Like ship spinning is all about game play.

I am with the OP on this. They were not the only one looking forward to WiS. Many people do not even post on these forums. SO we'll never know just how many wanted WiS - instead of ship spinning.

Ponies!  We need more ponies!
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#107 - 2011-10-24 23:16:20 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
To the WiS haters, I never suggested stopping work in the FiS content.


Love all the people that think they can do both when we have two years worth of history showing that with 20% more staff they couldnt even do that.

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#108 - 2011-10-24 23:18:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
arcca jeth wrote:
Karadion wrote:
I can say for all goons except Rho Squad that we do not want WiS. That's 4000+ people right there.


so the average login per day of players is somewhere around 20-25k....remember this is down from a steady 40k to near 50-60k players online at any given time a few months ago.

so at the current level of average players online, those 4k+ are still only 1/5 of the regular online population... ONE FIFTH

actually, looking at the server graph, its less than 1/5 lol go figure. people swinging their weight around as if it has some merit


ok try this on for size:
Goons are part of the DCF.
DCF is about 72% of all of null.
Thats more space in null than there is in high.
one in six (give or take) of all the pilots on at any time lol

Thats a sizable number however you look at it

Cyra Mangeiri wrote:

You're not wrong. The current CQ is not what Incarna should've been about. However, bashing the idea of WiS based on that CQ is hardly worth note, because the idea behind it is still good, it's just the realization of the idea that leaves a lot to desire. Abandoning whole WiS as it is just because some people can't see beyond the moment is not a good idea after making the first steps towards it. Delay it if it's not ready, sure, but abandon fully? Not smart.


They didnt abandon it because "some people can't see beyond the moment is not a good idea after making the first steps towards it" they abandoned it because the tech was ONLY a Beta for WoD. Since WoD is gone, theres no reason for a Beta test anymore.

Tristan North wrote:
Karadion wrote:
I can say for all goons except Rho Squad that we do not want WiS. That's 4000+ people right there.

That's the definition of conformism, it's ridiculous.


lol yeah this game is all about being anarchic and rebellious... only you have to do it in massive groups. Just like real life

funny isnt it?

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#109 - 2011-10-24 23:24:21 UTC
Michus Danether wrote:
I think it's been said already but it's worth reiterating:

Walking in Stations is, in of itself, not a bad thing. The idea of a sci fi universe sandbox complete with cantinas, back alleys and poker games you can bet a capital ship on are all awesome and CCP *has* done a cool job developing new avatar tech.

The main rage against WiS has I think been mostly focused on the following two concerns:

1. WiS takes away from FiS development
2. WiS means NEX

as for #1 this is a legitimate concern. Developer A can only work on one thing at a time and that thing would be either WiS or FiS. There's not much getting around this except for the fact that asset-developers (people who make ships for FiS or rooms for WiS) can only work on one thing yes, but balance adjusters (such as who would rejig FW and rebalance ships) don't have much use for developing WiS anyway so there's that.

#2 is an easy fix, just remove NEX.



There's something important to realize here CCP; people aren't buying what you're selling because what you're selling *sucks*. Nobody, NOBODY! not even the WiS fanboys asked you to release ONE EMPTY ROOM and a for-real-cash clothing store. Every-time CCP talked about WiS people thought "Cantina? Cool, can't wait to go hang out in one of those while waiting for an op to start." nobody nobody nobody nobody nobody was craving a captains quarters as the most important thing of WiS.

Just put out the 4 CQ, build a cantina and people might warm up to the idea! And it's not even that huge of a commitment anymore, you've already built all the god-damn avatar and rendering tech! Just slap some bulkheads together and call it a cantina. Hell. You guys can do it, why don't you? It's like walking off the race track when you're a meter from the finish line.

I just hope you don't have sex like you do expansions, where's the happy ending for everybody? Just commit to finish even if everybody looks embarrassed and unsatisfied after but ffs finish!


^^^^^^
Exactly! My point is from now to the end of time we will bein a single person box whenever we dock to remind us CCP couldn't even been bothered to add ANYTHING past the locked door. I'm asking CCP to realize and acknowledge there is something no matter how basic it might be they could commit to deliver that makes WiS seem less abandoned in place and half done.

I think a lot of folks in Eve would want at least that before it gets totally forgotten.

Issler
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#110 - 2011-10-24 23:27:17 UTC
Cyra Mangeiri wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
CCP can't do it. they don't have the finances to fund three development projects at once, and incarna is actually WoD stuff. Before, it was EVE getting the short end of the stick, but that doesn't work because EVE pays the bills. Since DUST is actually close to release, it's WoD, and therefore Incarna, that get shelved until there's more money. You can't get both with CCP's finances


Even so, the point stands. CCP themselves have admitted that it was rushed


CCP themselves also admitted they cant run all the projects they were running at once. I referr you to to the announcement where we leaned all this.

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
SilentSkills
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2011-10-24 23:28:21 UTC
hmm lets see.....

If A is the number of players pre-incarna and B is the number of players that joined because of Incarna, and A>B

Then who will CCP listen to more if both A and B threaten to unsub again?

Basic elementary school word problem.

Clues:
A 's subscription numbers are greater than B's
A - wants FiS content fixed, and more FiS content added.
Some of A doesn't mind WiS, but want FiS to be a priority.
Ranka Mei
TANoshii Incorporated
#112 - 2011-10-24 23:29:32 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:

CCP showed every intention of trying to financially shaft the space barbie WiS supporters, and here you lot are begging CCP not to abandon it. I just love that, CCP wanted you to bend over and take it, without lube whilst rifling though your wallet and now you are all upset because most players told CCP "no thanks" and they put their plans on hold.

Anybody who still supports space barbie and WiS after we saw CCPs pricing policy is a mug.


The idea of Incarna, or WiS rather, is several years old, and has, in and of itself, nothing to do with Hilmar's sudden but inevitable betrayal. Clothing and other vanity items were simply a type of merchandise that lent themselves pretty well for a BiS environment, is all. Had there been no Incarna, Hilmar would have issued other vanity items (Ishukone Scorpion, anyone?). So, people who hate Hilmar's "Greed is Good" policy would do well to separate the issue from the existence, and desirability of Incarna.

Incarna is an awesome concept. It's a technological marvel, for one, in terms of what they pulled off with the character creator. Apart from that, it was going to put the RPG back in MMORPG (remember the part where this is supposed to be a role-playing game?!). And on that note, it's never been WiS vs. FiS -- even though its detractors make it look that way. In large, I reckon, because of the widespread belief, in the FiS camp, that EVE is, and only ever should be, about fighting in space. Which it isn't, and never was. Industrialists/traders would love to trade 'in real person' (Surrogates-style); people would love to rent 'real' corp offices, meet up with 3D agents to get missions, hold in-station corp meetings, etc.

And yes, we Incarnies love to do all the above, sans agreeing per se with having to pay $1,000 for a pair of pants bought in a NeX boutique shop. And there's even people who don't mind doing that.

tl;dr: Don't hate on Incarna because someone got greedy. It was a fantastic concept, and I'd like you to finish it, CCP.

-- "All your monies AUR belong to us!" -- CCP
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#113 - 2011-10-24 23:30:30 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Reading the CCP CEO interview I was taken by this comment.

"but the voice of the community is quite clear. People want more spaceships, and more flying in space features. That's very much what we are responding to. "

I don't agree, we certainly do want FiS but that doesn't mean we don't wasn more WiS. I think a lot of us do! And leaving WiS as single player prison cell CQ is a reminder that CCP can't keep its promises. The interview makes it clear there is no plan in the works or even being discussed to take WiS beyond the prison cell.

So if you wanted WiS please post in this thread because I think a lot of us want CCP to deliver more of what they have promised use for years now.

DO NOT ABANDON WiS!!
LET US OUT THAT DOOR!!!!

Issler


CCP showed every intention of trying to financially shaft the space barbie WiS supporters, and here you lot are begging CCP not to abandon it. I just love that, CCP wanted you to bend over and take it, without lube whilst rifling though your wallet and now you are all upset because most players told CCP "no thanks" and they put their plans on hold.

Anybody who still supports space barbie and WiS after we saw CCPs pricing policy is a mug.


I didn't need to spend a single AUR to to walk in stations. I could have totally ignored the NEX store. The fact that you seemed to so somehow think WiS is a "dress up" game says more about what you secretly want to do than what other folks would have done. I would have been happy in my character creator clothes WiS and would never have spent a cent of RL dollars in the NEX store.

Besides the biggest complaint about the NEX store was special ships and "golden ammo" which are still coming in some form even as WiS is nuked from orbit.

Issler
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#114 - 2011-10-24 23:33:35 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Karadion wrote:
arcca jeth wrote:
in the end, CCP still has not Polled or Surveyed their current and previous subscribers. If they survey people when they cancel (i don't know if they do because I haven't cancelled since a brief moment in 06) then I am sure they would (hopefully) use that feedback to at least really know why people cancelled.

I think they already know when their clients counted how many people turned off in-station environment.


Well, actually, a lot of people turned off the CQ because it caused a frame rate hit and they couldn't run multiple clients easily, or because content was so limited, or because some of the short cut options they were used to were not there any more. Likely all three.

Not all of them turned it off because they wanted Incarna trashed, never to be iterated on again. Perhaps not even a large percentage of them.

I personally would have no issue with a poll of existing subscribers at logon along the lines of:

1: Incarna and WOD can die in a fire, trash it completely and move on.
2: Incarna and WOD should be on hold for the forseeable future, but not completely forgotten.
3: Incarna and WOD should be on hold for at least a year, and then limited resources should be allocated to it.
4: Incarna and WOD development should continue now, but with a reasonable division of resources.
5: I"m quiting because Incarna and WOD have been so severely cut back.

Followed with a text box entitled:

What Incarna related content and game play features would you like to see eventually, if any?

I think the results would be interesting, especially if it were tied into the login screen, not the forums.


again, how to do this, especially in the case of some of the people in this thread with 4 accounts?
Your results are gonna be skewwed

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#115 - 2011-10-24 23:35:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
arcca jeth wrote:


I would agree to the polling delivery method, but honestly I would leave WoD out of it. Different game and not EVE, I would personally like to see them focus all their resources on EVE and seeking funding for WoD from new investors. Use that funding to rehire WoD staff and separate the two completely. If they want to make the work they've done cross functional to implement, fine no big deal.


WoD and Incarna are linked whether you like it or not so you cant leave it out of it

Flamespar wrote:
Yes a lot of players want walking in stations as was originally proposed. Not the single room that we got. There is a difference.

Incarna haters are unable to fathom this.


WiS Fanbois seem to be unable to realize Incarna and WiS FAILED get over it

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Mograthi
#116 - 2011-10-24 23:37:12 UTC
Montevius Williams wrote:
I think most people DO want walking in stations, just not the way it was implemented.


You sir would be very wrong. Never wanted it, don't want it. This game is about internet spaceships and blowing crap up in space not playing second life in space. The game you are looking for is elsewhere, go to it and don't come back.
Flamespar
WarRavens
#117 - 2011-10-24 23:40:28 UTC
I really wish CCP would just do devblog on whether or not Incarna is dead so we can all move on with out lives (or to other MMOs)
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#118 - 2011-10-24 23:42:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Soulpirate wrote:
+1 to the OP

I just can't get over how some people are so afraid of change and the growth of EVE.


Growth of CCP is why we're worried

Jenny Spitfire wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Jenny Spitfire wrote:
I support more of doing something with 3D characters. It is a shame to leave things as they are now.


Genuine Jenny...


No, I am serious. It is a good idea that can add an extra dimension to Eve and sadly, it is taken away. It is issues like this sometimes is killing the game.

Players especially old players being too rigid or conservative and cannot accept changes whether it may be good or bad. The bottom line, however, it is played, is just bitter vet syndrome.

If Eve started with 3D characters and micro-transactions, we will not have such conversation today.


When the change in the game is the company loses 20% of its employees, youll excuse me if I dont want to continue it...

Flamespar wrote:
I really wish CCP would just do devblog on whether or not Incarna is dead so we can all move on with out lives (or to other MMOs)


Um... they did... the one that told us it was being shelved. If you choose not to listen to it you really cant ask them to re-write it just for you...

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#119 - 2011-10-24 23:50:55 UTC
damn too many posts -.-

Issler wrote:


^^^^^^
Exactly! My point is from now to the end of time we will bein a single person box whenever we dock to remind us CCP couldn't even been bothered to add ANYTHING past the locked door.

Issler


YES they should roll it back and do away with Incarna. I agree

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#120 - 2011-10-24 23:52:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Aidan Brooder
Oh my, this is like some kindergarten with insane mushroom pubbies.

Yes, I and many others want WiS.
No, we are not space barbies.
No, you are not kewl because you limit yourself to a spaceship.
Yes, I have expressed my opinion in a trillion other threads and it gets tiring.
Yes, such threads will continue.
No, you are stupid shooting each other for nuffin cos there is WoT, which I played all day, because I had a rough one. It's so insanely simple.
Yes, EVE is giving you possibilities to play other playstyles.
No, not even The Mittani can change the basics of his avatar again atm and somehow I have the feeling that is why so many are against WiS. Please, Mittens. Make a more beautiful less Christopher Lee-as-Dracula toon sometime so your boys can peacefully shoot miners instead of the forum.

Sometimes on these forums lately I feel like in Groundhog Day...

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x