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Ganky Pilgrims still doing OK?

Author
Doctorkaba
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-01-11 15:46:21 UTC
With the new changes to the whole aggro mechanics and with the old sleeper mechanics, are cloaky pilgrims still good at ganking unsuspecting WHers?

Another question, sleepers hate jammers, but what if you jam a ship that isnt a sleeper (aka another ship that warped into the plex)? Will the sleepers still attack the source of jams regardless of the target?


thanks in advance!

Want some pvp help? Like to fly small and fast frigates? Then join the in game channel Tenori_Tigers!

Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#2 - 2013-01-11 15:56:47 UTC
Doctorkaba wrote:
With the new changes to the whole aggro mechanics and with the old sleeper mechanics, are cloaky pilgrims still good at ganking unsuspecting WHers?

Another question, sleepers hate jammers, but what if you jam a ship that isnt a sleeper (aka another ship that warped into the plex)? Will the sleepers still attack the source of jams regardless of the target?


thanks in advance!


I'm not sure they're good for ganking site runners. Sleepers do dislike ECM, but I find they like to switch to newly arrived ships. They're fantastic for ganking anywhere else, though. Even missile boats (soon?).
Spheranzinne
Color of Violence
#3 - 2013-01-11 17:08:14 UTC
pilgrim shines on hisec mission runners but aggro mechanics makes that fishy now. in sleeper sites its even harder i suppose, but can be handled if you properly count the waves and choose targets carefully. i would avoid missiles ships and highend wormholes.
Malception
Dutch Rudder Trading Company
#4 - 2013-01-11 17:33:32 UTC
Sleepers hate ECM no matter who you're using it on. But as has been said, they also hate newcomers.
Doctorkaba
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-01-12 12:37:17 UTC
hopes and dreams of ganking in WHs solo crushed now, time to get a SB alt....

Want some pvp help? Like to fly small and fast frigates? Then join the in game channel Tenori_Tigers!

Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
The Bastion
#6 - 2013-01-13 23:03:24 UTC
Pilgrims are not really fantastic ships, they do not have the range bonus of their other-race counterparts, and everything they do can be done better by another ship. The pilgrim is also a bit of a pig when it comes to fitting then effectively. However they **are** pretty good for taking down PvE ships, usually by holding them (point / scram / ?web), relieving them of their capacitor charge (neuts), and then either slowly picking away at their residual inactive shield / armor / structure or allowing the remaining fat-red-cross NPCs to do this while you hold them there. They are also not-too-bad as a bait cyno ship.

That approach works pretty well for PvE ships running empire sites (missions, anoms, sigs, belts, gates etc) and that has not (I understand) changed an awful lot with the recent alterations to NPC dynamics. It’s not such an effective approach to killing w-space PvE ships … because sleepers are wont to quickly swap to your pilgrim and are usually capable of easily ruining the day of even a well tanked pilgrim.

So, yes you can use a solo pilgrim for hassling w-space PvE folk, but you would probably be best to make your tackle just as the last BS dies. If you’re truly solo that can be difficult, because any half-a-brain wormholer will already be aligned out as they kill the last few BSs and because you have the usual target-lock-after-decloak delay. You may also have some difficulty break the passive tank of those neuted sleeper-fighters, depending on your DPS-delivery chocies.
The other general approach to w-space ganking is to have enough tank to survive whatever sleepers remain in the site when you tackle the PvE dood, or / and to kill those remaining sleepers … but that requires more than a solo or semi-solo pilgrim can provide.

Stealth bombers are a helluva lot of fun for this sort of operation but, again, you are relying on the PvE-dood clearing the sleepers first. The stealth bombers are not subject to the post-cloak target lock delay and so are much more effective in getting them locked and pointed. The downside is that stealth bombers have no tank to speak of and a flight of warrior IIs (or EC-300s) can quickly undo your brave attack. Even without drones the ubiquitous tengu (even the drake) is not always a great target for the solo stealth bomber.

Now, a stealth bomber flying alongside a pilgrim offers a potentially viable alternative. The stealth bomber can relatively easily make the initial tackle, as soon as they finish the site. The pilgrim can then lock-on a few seconds later to relieve them of all that unhelpful capacitor charge, and perhaps to EC-drone jam them or do whatever other drone evil takes your fancy. The stealth bomber’s torpedoes then put out enough damage to kill most everything (neuted) likely to be running a w-space site solo.
OFC that’s a semi-solo (pair of alts) scenario rather than true solo and, IMO, the falcon-plus-bomber combo is a more effective choice for this.

Good luck out there, I will look forward to hearing how it goes.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

Sir John Halsey
#7 - 2013-01-14 14:47:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir John Halsey
Doctorkaba wrote:
hopes and dreams of ganking in WHs solo crushed now, time to get a SB alt....


I tried that :)
Sleepers hate them too (and failed miserably) ...

Make sure you wait until there is only one sleeper alive (or none) before you uncloak and launch your bomb.
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#8 - 2013-01-16 15:51:50 UTC
Doctorkaba wrote:
With the new changes to the whole aggro mechanics and with the old sleeper mechanics, are cloaky pilgrims still good at ganking unsuspecting WHers?

Another question, sleepers hate jammers, but what if you jam a ship that isnt a sleeper (aka another ship that warped into the plex)? Will the sleepers still attack the source of jams regardless of the target?


thanks in advance!


Bit late in the day but here is the view of a lo-sec Pilgrim lover.

Retribution has totally shafted my chosen piloting style. After my Hulk was nerfed I've dedicated myself to skilling up everything that a Pilgrim can do to 5.

Now its stuffed because the wormhole mechanics apply to lo-sec. I was starting to get T3 PVE kills with rat assistance - the first time I went for a Drake in a Radar (after Retribution) I sploded in record time because the rats hated my EWAR more than the Drake.

Doesnt look good for us Pilgrim pilots does it.

With my limited play time and AMARR skills, the legion looks like an option - am I wasting my time hoping to do decent PVE and some PVP in null sec with a LEGION?

Hope this is on-topic enough for a reply.
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#9 - 2013-01-17 12:43:26 UTC
The Pilgrim (and Curse) is the most beautiful ship in EVE and has great abilities. I would fly it a lot if it wasn't for that fatal flaw: Its horribly bad agility and speed. A plated Pilgrim is just a pain to fly.

And for all that clunkiness its tank is still too weak...

.

Doctorkaba
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-01-17 14:56:36 UTC
Zen Dad wrote:


Bit late in the day but here is the view of a lo-sec Pilgrim lover.

Retribution has totally shafted my chosen piloting style. After my Hulk was nerfed I've dedicated myself to skilling up everything that a Pilgrim can do to 5.

Now its stuffed because the wormhole mechanics apply to lo-sec. I was starting to get T3 PVE kills with rat assistance - the first time I went for a Drake in a Radar (after Retribution) I sploded in record time because the rats hated my EWAR more than the Drake.

Doesnt look good for us Pilgrim pilots does it.

With my limited play time and AMARR skills, the legion looks like an option - am I wasting my time hoping to do decent PVE and some PVP in null sec with a LEGION?

Hope this is on-topic enough for a reply.


From what i have heard, in general, unlike other t3s, all the t2 amarr ships can so what the legion tries to do but do it better. That being said for something like null sec where you can roam bubble proof, t3 might be better. Bubbles arent that prevalent in WH space (or rather in the care bear lower level WHs :D ). I have the skills for a legion, might as well train for it too.

Want some pvp help? Like to fly small and fast frigates? Then join the in game channel Tenori_Tigers!