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The proposed new Brutix
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Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-01-13 14:12:00 UTC
Seems to mee it sucks... I was looking forward to another mid slot, and an EHP buff, and a change ot its crappy 7.5% repair bonus which is wholly inferior to a resist bonus. (I was hoping for a falloff/traking bonus to take its place, or for it to be buffer to 10% like the incursus)....
Instead it got its EHP nerfed, retains the crap bonus, and all it gets in return is 1 low slot

I'd rather have a more even mix of mediums and lows, to allow it to do both tank types. An extra slot to put a TE in the lows is as good as a midslot to put a TC in, or a cap booster, or a 2nd web/prop mod, etc.

I think the Gallente BCs are getting screwed over.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#2 - 2013-01-13 14:52:06 UTC
Fozzie is open for changing the Brutix, like the other ships. Current stats are just the first version.

General consensus seems to be that having two rep bonused Gal BCs is a bit lame.

Resists and tracking bonuses have been suggested.

I personally like the idea that Brutix could be a solid armor tanking brawler to offer something for newer players in logi-backed small fleets, those bonuses would help there, but sig radius should be reduced then.

Talos and Thorax can be the shield/speed options.

.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-01-13 15:09:08 UTC
Even if they change the rep bonus on the Brutix, the one that remains (myrm) needs a buff to at least 10%, right now I see the Prophecy outdoing the Myrm.... much better armor tank, not that much lost drone DPS
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#4 - 2013-01-13 15:45:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Dato Koppla
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Even if they change the rep bonus on the Brutix, the one that remains (myrm) needs a buff to at least 10%, right now I see the Prophecy outdoing the Myrm.... much better armor tank, not that much lost drone DPS


This absolutely, I feel 7 lows + resist bonus is really going to make the Prophecy punch above the Myrm, sure you get the extra 25m3 bandwith but with better tanking bonus, option for additional lowslot damage mod, better base tank, more bay etc, the Prophecy is going to give more mileage.
stoicfaux
#5 - 2013-01-13 16:25:59 UTC
The rep/resist bonus should be selectable. If you want to buffer tank, then choose the resist bonus. If you want to active tank, then choose the rep bonus.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#6 - 2013-01-13 16:28:43 UTC
A 5 mid brutix will most likely just outperform the Ferox and the Cane.

Shield brutix shouldn't be the norm, armor ones should. A shield brutix is supposed to be a pure gank boat where you sacrifice tank and tackle.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Meta Reloaded
#7 - 2013-01-13 16:39:06 UTC
I still push 45k EHP out of my shield Brutix and 625dps with 3 magstabs. It can only get better Twisted

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-01-13 16:45:48 UTC
How do you figure that, losing a significant amount of EHP for 1 more low slot?
You think thats going to help your shield tank Brutix?

Minmatar often shield or armor tank... but why does CCP seem to hate the idea of a gallente boat shield tanking so much?
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#9 - 2013-01-13 16:48:59 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
The rep/resist bonus should be selectable. If you want to buffer tank, then choose the resist bonus. If you want to active tank, then choose the rep bonus.


Going to agree with this however... 7.5% rep compared to 5% resistance is not even remotely balanced...

There are a couple solution that I currently see...

1. Simply buff armor rep bonus on all hulls to 10% per level

2. Nerf resistance bonus to 4% (both shield and armor bonuses) per level and buff the armor repairers themselves.



The first solution addresses the weakness of the bonus and the disparity in tanking between resistance and active however It does nothing to alleviate the problem of armor reppers sucking on unbonused hulls.

Second solution achieves the same overall goal of balancing the two bonuses while also making the reppers more attractive on hulls with no bonus. In all honesty... 5% resistance per level is an OP bonus.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-01-13 17:06:31 UTC
Myrm needs its 5 heavy/sentry back. The drone bandwidth nerf was way too harsh and unbalancing. Nowhere else does the equivalent HAC (Ishtar) get more gank in its specialized racial weapon than its BC counterpart (Myrm).
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-01-13 17:31:38 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Myrm needs its 5 heavy/sentry back. The drone bandwidth nerf was way too harsh and unbalancing. Nowhere else does the equivalent HAC (Ishtar) get more gank in its specialized racial weapon than its BC counterpart (Myrm).



I'd be happy in just getting a big @$$ drone bay. I never understood how the dedicated drone boats have such small drone bays. The Myrm is the perfect example, considering it does not even get a turret bonus.

I should be able to field a metric ton of drones in a drone ship. Take for example a missile boat. They can easily fit some ammo for all 4 damage types. I'd love to see more drone bay in my myrm to carry a larger variety of drones. It doesn't have to be crazy big like a carrier, but larger than it is now.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#12 - 2013-01-13 17:33:50 UTC
Imo an active tank bonus needs to be 10% to be on par with a res bonus..

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2013-01-13 17:35:49 UTC
Drone bay size balances the massive amount of gank Gallente drone ships have.

Myrm is sort of a bad example, I flew a Myrm yesterday that does 994 dps before heat (that's a lot for a BC, btw) Running out of drones hasn't been an issue in any fight I've been.

.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-01-13 18:01:05 UTC
Roime wrote:
Drone bay size balances the massive amount of gank Gallente drone ships have.

Myrm is sort of a bad example, I flew a Myrm yesterday that does 994 dps before heat (that's a lot for a BC, btw) Running out of drones hasn't been an issue in any fight I've been.




I'm not only thinking in terms of losing drones in battle. Although having a larger bay with replacements would be nice. But it would be nice to have more options. It is a lot harder to fit multiple types of heavy drones into most drone ships if you wanted that damage type option. Granted non-ogre's tend to suck in comparison as well, but it would be nice to have that option IMO.

I'm not sure it would be hugely unbalancing, as it doesn't change how many you can launch at a given time.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#15 - 2013-01-13 18:17:35 UTC
I think you'd always be better off just throwing more utility drone flights in your bay then "heavy drone options". But hey, your ship.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-01-13 18:41:45 UTC
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
I think you'd always be better off just throwing more utility drone flights in your bay then "heavy drone options". But hey, your ship.



That is what happens now, due to the current size of the drone bay. You should be able to carry some more heavy drone options AND utility drone flights.

Look at it this way. I think it is safe to say that the Myrmidon is the quintessential drone BC. And definitely one of the key drone boats for the Gallente race. Yet they are going to give the Prophecy a larger drone bay with the updates than a Myrm? Granted the prophecy doesn't have the same bandwidth, but bandwidth is still tempered by the fact that you can still only field 5 drones at a time.

Basically the prophecy will have the bandwidth that the myrmidon has now. So it could do the 2 heavy 2 medium 1 light drone thing AND will have 75m3 more drone room than the current myrm.

Sure the new myrm will get the bandwidth to field one additional heavy, but the drone bay is only getting adjusted enough to compensate for that one additional heavy. Just seems a little bit bit more drone room would be nice.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-01-13 19:49:03 UTC
100 bandwidth isn't even that good, you could do better with 95
You are better off using 3 heavies and 2 mediums, just like before it was 2 heavy, 2 medium, 1 light.

So, basically, for max DPS, you turn a light into a heavy, which gives you less than 3 light drones worth of a firepower increase.
Its also worth noting that the Proph is faster than the myrm

If you use sentries, it is a bit better...

But the New proph will have more buffer, and a better active tank, because 25% bonus resists is as good as a 33.33% rep bonus, and its got more slots to buff that tank, and their capacitors are the same.

The new proph got +1 mid, +1 low, +50 bandwidth for drones with a 10%/lvl bonus, for the loss of 2 still unbonused turrets.

The brutix.... +0 mids, +1 low... and is still pretty slow - 5 m/s advantage over amarr BCs, while 10 m/s slower than minmatar BCs

I also think its a bit lame that all the BCs have the same cap/second regen...

The harby and brutix should have stronger caps, and so should the myrm, since they are expected to active tank and/or fire energy consuming weapons.
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#18 - 2013-01-13 19:54:24 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
100 bandwidth isn't even that good, you could do better with 95
The harby and brutix should have stronger caps, and so should the myrm, since they are expected to active tank and/or fire energy consuming weapons.


By that logic, the Ferox should also have better capacitor.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#19 - 2013-01-13 19:59:32 UTC
A 6 low slot Brutix is actually quite sexy and I have no idea why people are so pissy over it. Furthermore Fozzie has all but promised a reworking of the rep bonus - not necessarily in the removal of the rep bonus but in the fixing of it.

I think people should chill the **** out and see how this turns out. Gallente has been making out very well indeed in these rebalances. What I don't want to see is another case of the Deimos not getting buffed for 5 years because people were too dumb to think.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-01-13 20:48:57 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
A 6 low slot Brutix is actually quite sexy and I have no idea why people are so pissy over it. Furthermore Fozzie has all but promised a reworking of the rep bonus - not necessarily in the removal of the rep bonus but in the fixing of it.

I think people should chill the **** out and see how this turns out. Gallente has been making out very well indeed in these rebalances. What I don't want to see is another case of the Deimos not getting buffed for 5 years because people were too dumb to think.

-Liang


as for the deimos....

i would think the

the mwd drive bonus is going to go... (increase cap to compensate)

they are going to add a 4th mid slot

i would assume the hp will be either rounded down or up to get rid of random numbers (fozzie likes round numbers)

the only question for the ship is...

what is going to be the 4th ship bonus?

we have falloff already and 2 damage ones...

maybe an agility bonus like on the blops?

or perhaps an mass reduction bonus when fitting armor plates? like 10% per level?

or hell even a tracking bonus... (like on the thorax) infact i would put my bottom dollar on a tracking bonus... that would make either nuetron or 250 rail setups pretty awesome...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
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