These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Jita Park Speakers Corner

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

In Response to DNSBlack "Letter to the CMS 7"

Author
Oddsodz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-12-01 16:34:40 UTC
Some of you may have seen this.

http://evenews24.com/2012/11/29/a-letter-to-csm-7-back-to-the-gates/

Now I wish to reply to it, and here is the best place I can think off.

I Will not be speaking of Moon goo issues. I have no idea of how that sort of thing should work. So I will not go into it. but I will talk about "Force Projection". When an entity can transverse the whole of the Eve universe in a matter of minutes (yes I know it can take some time and effort set up), Then what hope has a small/new corp of establishing it's self when any and every big power block can hit them from anywhere at any time? Some will say. Start up in Low sec and grow from there. some will say start in NPC 0.0 and grow from that. All are good and valid augments. But the issue is still the same. Any sizeable fleet will get hit hard and fast if it is deemed big and easy enough to crush. It's one of the reasons that low sec and 0.0 incursions don't get run often (PvE, I know right!! What has that got to do with anything?).

Let me say up front, I am all for the removal of the "Titan Bridge" (kind of funny when you look at who I fly for). Now I have read quite a few posts/comments about how silly the idea is to remove titan bridges. How would any PvP get done when you can't cyno into target systems. What use is there for Titans if you remove the bridge? Well here is the answer.

Make the cone vat on a titan super big. Let it hold 250 clones in it's vat. Then make it ship hanger big enough to carry 250 battle ships. (This might already be possible and I am too noob to know it). That's should be big enough for one whole fleet. If you want more numbers for your fleet. You have to bring more Titans. I Am sure that is not an issue for some ;-) Now if you want to drop a fleet on a target system, you have to bring your Titan to do it. Of Course if you don't want to risk your titan in combat. You could just cyno in a few jumps away from the target system and deploy your fleet from there. The up shot is Titans will be even more valuable for big fleet combat. They will be needed just to get to the combat. More Titans will die. Defending fleets can then still have home advantage by knowing what gates the enemy will be coming and adjust accordingly (scouts and bubbles are epic). Or if the big boys do drop with the Titan directly into the target system. Then there is a super cap on grid for all to start shooting at. I call this the "True Hot Drop". Only the brave will do this I think.

Now I am sure some will say I am talking out of my ass. And for the most part. I am sure that I am. But how epic would it be I wonder? Now I am sure there is all sorts of issue with my idea. Session change timers and boarding ships in combat. Bubbles around the cyno/Titan and pilots in pods trying to board ships in the Titan and so on. All things that could be solved if the idea was to be looked into more.

oh and DNSBLACK, Is this your way of a secret buff to BlackOp covert ships? ;-)

Anyway. That's my response Don't hate me to much (a little is Ok).
vladhammerfall
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-12-02 04:07:57 UTC
Nice, intelligent response. What a surprise on these forums.
Kalissis
#3 - 2012-12-02 04:13:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalissis
I actually don't think the purposed solution with the titan working as a "mothership" will work, since the obvious problem you can just bridge in some systems away (case nowadays with cyno jammed systems ANYWAY). On top of that big entities will still be able to "blob" and force project "them" across the universe in no time (as it is right now) or do you think titans out there are so rare? I got one..
Tinkerbel Ducttape
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-12-02 10:58:28 UTC
To counter the projection of power from enemy titans, alliances have claimed large areas of space they have little use for, just to prevent their enemies from using it as a base of operation.
Oddsodz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-12-02 23:04:50 UTC
Kalissis wrote:
I actually don't think the purposed solution with the titan working as a "mothership" will work, since the obvious problem you can just bridge in some systems away (case nowadays with cyno jammed systems ANYWAY). On top of that big entities will still be able to "blob" and force project "them" across the universe in no time (as it is right now) or do you think titans out there are so rare? I got one..



I Agree with you to a point. If the "Blob" is determined enough. They can get anywhere in a small amount of time anyway. What my idea does do is slow the amount of times the "blob" will be willing to bring out the Titan from it's PoS of safety. Also remember, It would have to be a very coordinated effort as all pilots needed to be in the fleet would also need jump clones ready at the right time (24 hour cool down on jump clones remember). The idea I am driving at is that the Blob would have to travel by gates if they don't want to bring the Titan. And then that leaves them open to sniping fleets on gates from defenders. There was a battle report from some weeks ago about how a CSAA PoS was coming out of re-enforce and it was in a dead end system that was cyno jammed. The Blob had to use 1 gate to get in to the system, And they got hammered getting in (from what I read the blob won the fight if I remember rightly). Now at that point., It was all down to a numbers game and who was willing to lose more ships on the objective.

My idea also means there is more chance of Titans falling foal to spies and or intercepting fleets (and no I don't mean interceptor ships lol).

End the End. Titans would have to come out of the Po
the more I think about it, the better it would be. But again. I could be just too noob to know better.
Kalissis
#6 - 2012-12-03 00:18:26 UTC
Oddsodz wrote:
Kalissis wrote:
I actually don't think the purposed solution with the titan working as a "mothership" will work, since the obvious problem you can just bridge in some systems away (case nowadays with cyno jammed systems ANYWAY). On top of that big entities will still be able to "blob" and force project "them" across the universe in no time (as it is right now) or do you think titans out there are so rare? I got one..



I Agree with you to a point. If the "Blob" is determined enough. They can get anywhere in a small amount of time anyway. What my idea does do is slow the amount of times the "blob" will be willing to bring out the Titan from it's PoS of safety. Also remember, It would have to be a very coordinated effort as all pilots needed to be in the fleet would also need jump clones ready at the right time (24 hour cool down on jump clones remember). The idea I am driving at is that the Blob would have to travel by gates if they don't want to bring the Titan. And then that leaves them open to sniping fleets on gates from defenders. There was a battle report from some weeks ago about how a CSAA PoS was coming out of re-enforce and it was in a dead end system that was cyno jammed. The Blob had to use 1 gate to get in to the system, And they got hammered getting in (from what I read the blob won the fight if I remember rightly). Now at that point., It was all down to a numbers game and who was willing to lose more ships on the objective.

My idea also means there is more chance of Titans falling foal to spies and or intercepting fleets (and no I don't mean interceptor ships lol).

End the End. Titans would have to come out of the Po
the more I think about it, the better it would be. But again. I could be just too noob to know better.


You say it yourself, your idea is there to make them risk the titan, however there is no risk involved in jumpning in some systems away and then go gate to gate those few jumps, avoiding titan ever being seen by the enemy.
In my opinion, all solutions that involve keeping the titan bridge without making it not sustainable for big transports all over the universe, just a non needed complication in game mechanics, therefore removing it is very simple and is the best solution.
Tiberius Murderhorne
CONTRATTO
#7 - 2013-01-11 09:34:15 UTC
The force projection thing is a pain in the...

if I had my way supercaps would just be removed from the game... but thats not going to happen.

What about a spool up time on a cyno? 1 Min maybe before anyone could jump? I know this has been mentioned before. This would help with the problem of supercap drops where they are in to kill an objective and out again in under 2 mins.

the main problem with supercaps is the owners tend to clump together, these days you very rearly see 1 dropped unless it is getting dropped on....

how about making it that an alliance can only have 5 mother ships and 1 titan as a hard cap? and once this cap is reached members cannot join if sat in one and they cannot build any more??

just ideas....

Disclaimer : My posting does not always reflect my Corps views or my allience views.... Infact sometimes it does not even reflect my views!

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#8 - 2013-01-11 14:33:51 UTC
Tiberius Murderhorne wrote:
how about making it that an alliance can only have 5 mother ships and 1 titan as a hard cap? and once this cap is reached members cannot join if sat in one and they cannot build any more??

just ideas....


Arbitrary limits on player association are (1) bad in principle and (2) easily evaded. All that will happen is that each alliance will spawn a new sub-alliance for every 1 titan and 5 moms they want to be able to field. A small admin burden would be added, and I suppose you're sinking a billion ISK per 6 supers, but apart from that, it would be business as usual.

The correct answer is to give supercaps a role other than "insane EHP and massive DPS".

As it is, supercaps these days are mostly used for structure grinding and for deterring other supercaps. The days of titan fleets dropping on battlecruiser gangs seem to be over, thank god.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Zol Interbottom
Blimp Requisition Services
#9 - 2013-01-13 14:45:46 UTC
Make it so supercaps have actual roles besides show up and lay waste to all they observe

like

i dunno

maybe

meatshield?

"If you're quitting for the 3rd time you clearly ain't quitting" - Chribba