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Flu reaches epidemic levels

Author
Frank Millar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-01-13 11:59:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Frank Millar
Being asthmatic, I'm supposed to get flu shots every year, or I might be in trouble (i.e. get pneumonia and die).

Problem was, I'd still get the flu (or the symptoms thereof, but I don't see the difference) and be sick for two weeks.

Once I started exercising and eating reasonably healthy, I stopped taking these flu shots, and hey presto, no flu for the third year in a row now.

* knocks on wood *

Edit: I might also add: I avoid people like the plague. P
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#22 - 2013-01-13 16:12:51 UTC
Frank Millar wrote:
I might also add: I avoid people like the plague. P

Pretty difficult to get infected if you have next to no contact with the pathogen Lol
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#23 - 2013-01-13 17:14:27 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
There are studies showing flu shots make people sicker, but none showing they help in any way.

We're just supposed to take the manufacturers opinion that flu shots make you safer. I think i'll pass. Haven't been sick in like 15 years anyway. No injections needed.



It seems like I got the flu about every 5 years when I was younger, but I have not had one in at least 20 years now. No shots either.

Really really strange.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-01-13 19:09:02 UTC
Sodium Canine wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
[quote=Akita T].

In the absolute worst case 'pandemic' scenario you would just have everyone else calling in sick for a couple days. Not dropping dead in the streets like media outlets and drug companies would have people believe. So people should weigh that against the price of a flu vaccine.



Google "Spanish Flu".


you mean the pig flu we had a few years ago? the one that, pound-per-pound, killed even less than seasonal flu in that year? the one that the media went "OMFGSUPERFLU! BETTER GET INDOORS CUZ EEEEVERYONE'S DYING OUT HERE!"

truth is, the spanish (aka pig) flu did kill quite a number of people back then, when we didn't had anti-biotics and we pretty much revelled in crap. Boats were the only trans-continental way to travel, but due to how many people were stuffed in there, it was actually quite easy to transmit it over seas.

so, you have a high lack of hygiene in the general populace, a lack of anything close to modern medicine, and a general lack of knowledge. no wonder that flu killed millions. Look how many killed when it resurfaced.


anyways the reason why the flu vaccine doesn't work that well is because you're basically being inocculated against the previous year's common strain. there are a really huge number of flu strains, and every year a new one resurfaces. so yeah of course it's infective, but we still take it, because it's at least one strain you don't have to worry about.
You *could* receive a vaccine with a flu cocktail for example, but it's too expensive, hard to maintain, and it's still not 100% effective.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#25 - 2013-01-13 19:17:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Grimpak wrote:
anyways the reason why the flu vaccine doesn't work that well is because you're basically being inocculated against the previous year's common strain.


And you'd already be immune to it if you encountered it.

The way some of these people talk you'd think vaccines are our only hope. Aside from our own immune systems becoming immune to every strain we encounter, even ones that don't manage to make us sick, we also gain the immunities our mother has through breast milk.

It's almost as if we've evolved to handle it. P

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-01-13 19:42:38 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
And you'd already be immune to it if you encountered it.

IF.

in all honesty, any common flu strain can be fought off by your own body. Thing is, you'll feel terrible for a few weeks, but you'll survive, if you don't have any previous condition, or your body's defenses are too weak. this is why young and elderly ones are vaccined, because they don't have their body at 100%
and these guys were the main target of the H1N1 strain (AKA pig/spanish flu) "outbreak" if you want to call it, a few years ago. healthy people went over a nasty case of flu, but bounced back after a few weeks stuck in their houses, and they gained spanish flu antibodies.

seasonal flu ALSO kills the same people and in quite a large number btw, and that's why it is important to give the flu shot to the risk groups and people in important occupations where they can't leave work for extended periods of time, because it's either 60% chance of getting it, or 40% chance of getting it, for example.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#27 - 2013-01-13 20:52:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Grimpak wrote:
H1N1 strain (AKA pig/spanish flu) "outbreak" if you want to call it


What i remember most about the so-called Swine Flu epidemic is doctors professionally diagnosing everyone on the spot with 'probably swine flu'. All the other influenza virus' took that year off i guess.

Grimpak wrote:
it is important to give the flu shot to the risk groups and people in important occupations where they can't leave work for extended periods of time


Grimpak wrote:
in all honesty, any common flu strain can be fought off by your own body. Thing is, you'll feel terrible for a few weeks


Maybe i just haven't been sick in so long i've forgotten, but that seems a little long. Even chickenpox wasn't nearly that bad.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#28 - 2013-01-13 21:05:22 UTC
flu shot news is -so- daytime tv.

Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-01-13 21:12:55 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
in all honesty, any common flu strain can be fought off by your own body. Thing is, you'll feel terrible for a few weeks


Maybe i just haven't been sick in so long i've forgotten, but that seems a little long. Even chickenpox wasn't nearly that bad.

1-2 weeks. 3 at most, the 3rd being mostly your body recovering and not the actual flu. Normally it's 1 week for one of the common strains and you bounce back.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

Sodium Canine
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-01-14 01:37:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Sodium Canine
Grimpak wrote:
[quote=Sodium Canine].

truth is, the spanish (aka pig) flu did kill quite a number of people back then, when we didn't had anti-biotics and we pretty much revelled in crap. .



OK, I'll bite. Please explain how access to antibiotics is in anyway related to the lethality of a particular strain of flu?

Edit: never mind, answered my own question- they help fight off secondary infections like pneumonia.

My dad was a sailor on the ocean. He knows all about the ocean. What he doesn't know is why he quit being a sailor and married my mom.

Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#31 - 2013-01-14 09:14:04 UTC
Sodium Canine wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
[quote=Sodium Canine].

truth is, the spanish (aka pig) flu did kill quite a number of people back then, when we didn't had anti-biotics and we pretty much revelled in crap. .



OK, I'll bite. Please explain how access to antibiotics is in anyway related to the lethality of a particular strain of flu?

Edit: never mind, answered my own question- they help fight off secondary infections like pneumonia.


..or, the use of anti-biotics is related to them because they actually ssist viral strains in becoming stronger, and potentially more lethal. Just like people, virus and bacteria adapt to their environments, and if you make that environment hostile to them, they will become stronger for it, and eventually completely resistant to it.

Once that happens, there is very little to stop them, which is why scientists have developed even stronger anti-biotics to fight off superbugs like this. Unending cycle really, unless people just stop using them.

They aren't necessary in 90% of the cases, and often enough, are only prescribed to make the Doctor a bit more money. Certainly not because there is any great need for them. Many Doctors have actually come to realize this and warn against using them.

Personally, I last took antibiotics some 10-15 years ago, haven't taken any sort of medication in nearly as long, and if I get the flu I certainly don't notice it enough to recognize it for what it is. I've probably had pneumonia half a dozen times in that period, and I can't say as that really slowed me down either.

The issue is that many people don't naturally develop immunities these days because many Doctors recommend that parents stop breastfeeding their children, and feed them baby formula instead. There was some claim that a woman can make her child ill with breastfeeding and some other nonsense some time ago. Can't recall what exactly.

Fact is, the child is far better feeding with breast milk instead, provided the mother isn't a drug addict or alcoholic or some such, in which case it's presumably better if they don't. There are also apparently alternative means of providing immunity but I can't recall exactly what they are.

Coddling makes people weak. Trying to control every factor in our existence and prevent exposure makes people weak. Exposure and affliction make us strong, provided we survive it. Genetic adaption goes both ways; evolution can result in a species shedding that which it no longer seems to need. It can be expected that resistance to disease, tolerance for pain, ability to heal and resist injury may all become recessive genes given a lack of exposure to anything that would require them.

Even in our lifetime, we can expect to gain or lose bone density based on our exposure to injury or lack of it. Even so simple as a lessening of gravity such as the Astronauts experience is enough to cause bone density loss, and is a prime example of it.

tl;dr: Don't shelter your children and stop using drugs; who knows what they'll do to them or even you.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#32 - 2013-01-14 12:53:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Mars Theran wrote:
the use of anti-biotics is related to them because they actually ssist viral strains in becoming stronger, and potentially more lethal.

Hint as to where you got a few facts wrong : antibiotics do exactly jack squat to VIRUSES directly.
Of course, there are different types of bad side-effects and consequences to taking unnecessary antibiotics, but creating stronger viral strains is hardly one of them.
So, yes, you should NOT want to get unnecessary antibiotics, but for different reasons.

In fact, if anything, unnecessary antibiotics might actually promote WEAKER strains of VIRUSES, since potential bacterial complications are lessened, making the hosts ever so slightly more viable as viral incubators, thus relaxing the adaptive pressures on viruses.
Statistically speaking though, it's most likely inconsequential either way.

Now, if you want to talk about antibiotic resistant bacteria promoted by incorrect overuse of antibiotics, now there you have a point, and it's a pretty bad thing to happen.
But you specifically said viruses, not pathogens, so you kind of excluded bacteria.
Unless you actually meant to say pathogens but used the incorrect word.

Mars Theran wrote:
tl;dr: Don't shelter your children and stop using drugs; who knows what they'll do to them or even you.

I will agree to the sheltering bit, a sterile environment is the best way to screw up an immune system.
But your take on drugs is not so great. Drugs do help, but many people do indeed either overmedicate, undermedicate, or take the wrong medicine to begin with. And sometimes they do it wrong at the urging of overzealous, or bored, or incompetent doctors.
What you should be saying is to USE DRUGS RESPONSIBLY, if you can confirm that they are actually needed, of the proper type needed, in the proper doses for your age/build, for the proper duration. Doing it any other way has a good chance to do more harm than good.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#33 - 2013-01-14 16:34:41 UTC
This summer I had some kind of flu that would have killed an infirm person or a small child. No joke. I've had malaria and dengue fever, and neither was as bad as this. They both went away after a week or so. But this was two full months of minute-by-minute misery. Every possible flu symptom comes, in waves, one after another: fever, aches, stomach crud, sinus infection, bronchitis. My doctor had no clue what it was, and it turned out to be impervious to antibiotics.

My wife got it on a flight that was going from New York to Tokyo and Manila. Sick people on a plane. Who knows whether the virus originated in New York or Asia, but that flight spread it around pretty well.

Anyway, there's some bad stuff out there. If you live in a big city and use public transportation, there's no way to avoid it.
Calico-Jack Daniels
#34 - 2013-01-14 16:49:27 UTC
Rain6639 wrote:
I left the house to buy a PS3, came back with an AR-15 that shoots AK-47 bullets (7.62 x 39mm) and put a pistol version on order with the gunsmith.

what was that about boom headshot?



I'm Jealous, the only AR's left in stock around here are the .22LR

I go well with Quafe...

Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#35 - 2013-01-14 16:56:36 UTC
which is why since that post, I have purchased another 7.62x39 upper by Armalite (their last one), a 5.56 bolt carrier group and ordered a second pistol in 5.56

to turn around and resell in a month or so. for profit
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#36 - 2013-01-14 18:33:05 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Bane Necran wrote:
...none showing they help in any way.

Not
even
remotely
true.
If you must tell lies, tell ones that don't encourage people to risk their health.

And yes, I can cite scores more studies.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-01-14 19:20:41 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
...none showing they help in any way.

Not
even
remotely
true.
If you must tell lies, tell ones that don't encourage people to risk their health.

And yes, I can cite scores more studies.

helping a bit here:

Quote:
Children (< 16 years old) and the elderly (above 65 years old) are the two age groups that appear to have the most complications following an influenza infection. Influenza has a viral origin and often results in an acute respiratory illness affecting the lower or upper parts of the respiratory tract, or both. Viruses are mainly of two subtypes (A or B) and spread periodically during the autumn-winter months. However, many other viruses can also cause respiratory tract illnesses.

Diffusion and severity of the disease could be very different during different epidemics. Efforts to contain epidemic diffusion rely mainly on widespread vaccination. Recent policy from several internationally-recognised institutions, recommend immunisation of healthy children between 6 and 23 months of age (together with their contacts) as a public health measure.

The review authors found that in children aged from two years, nasal spray vaccines made from weakened influenza viruses were better at preventing illness caused by the influenza virus than injected vaccines made from the killed virus. Neither type was particularly good at preventing 'flu-like illness' caused by other types of viruses. In children under the age of two, the efficacy of inactivated vaccine was similar to placebo. It was not possible to analyse the safety of vaccines from the studies due to the lack of standardisation in the information given, but very little information was found on the safety of inactivated vaccines, the most commonly used vaccine in young children.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2013-01-14 19:34:24 UTC
Sodium Canine wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
[quote=Akita T].

In the absolute worst case 'pandemic' scenario you would just have everyone else calling in sick for a couple days. Not dropping dead in the streets like media outlets and drug companies would have people believe. So people should weigh that against the price of a flu vaccine.



Google "Spanish Flu".



google autocorrect keeps taking me to "Spanish Fly"
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#39 - 2013-01-14 21:19:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
silens vesica wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
...none showing they help in any way.

Not
even
remotely
true.
If you must tell lies, tell ones that don't encourage people to risk their health.


Expected this earlier.

I meant scientific studies, by impartial groups.

You'll notice the majority have no control or placebo group at all. That's not science, that's marketing.

From your first link:

Quote:
Randomized, placebo-controlled trials cannot be performed ethically in populations for which vaccination already is recommended


And since i'm in a quoting mood.

Quote:
"One of the flaws in studies of vaccines is that there are no true placebo groups. The vaccine is tested in one group of immunized children and is compared to another group of immunized children."

Peter Baratosy MD, PhD


In the rare cases where they do pretend they have a placebo group, that's what's really going on. Quality science, there.

Quote:
"Americans naively assume that CDC's vaccine policies are backed by numerous medical studies proving that vaccines always work and are safe. Nothing could be further from the truth. Vaccine recommendations for rubella are a prime example. CDC experts admit there really is no evidence supporting the current requirement that seventh grades receive a second dose of rubella. In February 1996 the director of CDC's National Immunization Program, Dr. Walter Orenstein even commented, “We don't have the data to support a second dose of rubella...To bolster its view that rubella vaccine is harmless, the CDC cites studies funded by rubella vaccine manufacturer Merck & Co."

Kristine M. Severyn RPh, PhD, Director of Vaccine Policy Institute


Reached my quote limit.

"There has never been a single vaccine in this country that has ever been submitted to a controlled scientific study. They never took a group of 100 people who were candidates for a vaccine, gave 50 of them a vaccine and left the other 50 alone, and measured the outcome."

~Robert S. Mendelsohn MD, Professor of Pediatrics, University of Illinois, College of Medicine

And just for fun P

"Whooping Cough infections are common in an immunized population."

~Journal of the American Medical Association, 1998

There's also cases where the big vaccine manufacturers are alleged to have fabricated entire studies.

I could go on for pages. Luckily there's lots of people out there who still put something called the scientific method over corporate profits. Seem to be less and less of them with every day, though.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#40 - 2013-01-14 22:12:36 UTC
Ah, yes, the 'studies aren't scientific' argument. I expected EXACTLY that. It's the standard cry of those who don't understand 1) research ethics and 2) science.
In order to 'placebo trial' a vaccine, you woudl have to deliberately infect people. We know of folks who have done that - they're called monsters. And THAT is your standard of scioence? You clearly know NOTHING about science - or the Ethics of medical research.

Here, have some actual science, packaged in bite-sized chunks that even you should be able to digest:
http://www.cdph.ca.gov/Pages/COMMONMYTHSABOUTVACCINESDEBUNKED.aspx


I can de-bunk you endlessly, but I can easily predict your reaction - more shouting and obfuscation and ignorance. I can poke massive holes through any of your 'vaccines are false' postinbg, but I won't bother: You are appear to be of a certain sort whom cannot be swayed by actual evidence.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

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