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People who sell frigates below cost.

Author
Count of MonteCylon
New Destiny Kingdom
#1 - 2013-01-13 01:04:01 UTC
Example: I calculate a Punisher costs 480,000 ISK reasonably speaking to build, and I see them for sale in high-sec for at low at 350,000.

Really, what's the deal with this? Are they trying to help out newbies? If so then I understand it in a way, but a researched frigate BPO was the holy grail for me as an industrial newbie, until I realized that I couldn't turn a profit on the things Ugh

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. -- Ephesians 6:12

Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-01-13 01:11:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Varius Xeral
Hisec industry is borked.

People pay for the privilege of building ****** t1 items because the requisite effort is so low.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

Debra Tao
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-01-13 01:18:28 UTC
It maybe be the aftermath of Retribution where some frigates cost have been increased. And generally speaking T1 items aren't really profitable to make but you can definitely make profit if you research the market enough. Ammos are usually profitable to make.

If you want to make more profit sell ships/ammos/whatever in missions hub, margins are higher usually.
Jamyl Khanid
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-01-13 01:31:18 UTC
Career agents give them away so you will invariably always see one or two that are being sold based on reproc cost.

Run through the Career agent missions, see what ships are there as rewards. From Punisher to Sigil to Venture. They will never be profitable to make.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#5 - 2013-01-13 02:10:00 UTC
I have met hundreds of players who will tell you, "they get the minerals for free". You can't really compete with that mentality...

Sorry to say, the same mentality happens all the way up through BS and expensive items as well.
Similar pattern for invention items.

Manufacturing is a hard career indeed.
ZX 185
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-01-13 02:48:45 UTC
They increased the mineral cost of producing tech 1 frigs and cruisers by almost 96% for the latter infact.
Lots of people were producing said ships on mass for months prior to patch, untill stockpiles are depleted you won't be able to even break even producing them.
Arronicus
The Untraceable
M A R A K U G A
#7 - 2013-01-13 06:07:32 UTC
there's a dev blog detailing the change. buildcost jumped by 2-10X as much (the 96% figure, my calculations do not support)
A number of players like myself built TONS of frigates at the old cost. according to the blogs figures, something like 500k were built, at the old price?
leoplusma
Delfus Inc.
#8 - 2013-01-13 11:08:03 UTC
Count of MonteCylon wrote:
Example: I calculate a Punisher costs 480,000 ISK reasonably speaking to build, and I see them for sale in high-sec for at low at 350,000.

Really, what's the deal with this? Are they trying to help out newbies? If so then I understand it in a way, but a researched frigate BPO was the holy grail for me as an industrial newbie, until I realized that I couldn't turn a profit on the things Ugh


lol hell yeah

t1 frigates manufacturing DIED and we will have to wait until settles again.
(bantams for example, they sell under 100k while the minerals cost 400k+
but you cant reprocess them because god invented extra materials lol)
still, people make fortunes piling up those ships in their hangars for
later selling.

cheers

leo
Alain Colcer
Nadire Security Consultants
#9 - 2013-01-13 12:52:48 UTC
Just buy the items if they are under reprocessing cost, melt them, and build new stuff.
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#10 - 2013-01-13 12:53:18 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
I have met hundreds of players who will tell you, "they get the minerals for free". You can't really compete with that mentality...


This is main reason, every other explanation is noise.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#11 - 2013-01-14 05:36:16 UTC
First it was mining ships, then it was frigates now its cruisers

dont ask why, just find something else to do and buy out the cheep stuff while the going is good.

P.S.

Free minerals is not about mining free minerals.
Rammes lol
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-01-14 09:25:17 UTC
Maybe people are tired of high prices and are trying to stop the inflation. They care less about turning a profit but it just to bring prices down so people can have more fun and will risk more during PVP, as far as the frigates go got to start somewhere.

If you find yourself in a fair fight in EvE your tactics suck!!!

Bydlo Moneymaker
Celestial Machines
#13 - 2013-01-14 11:46:09 UTC
Rammes lol wrote:
Maybe people are tired of high prices and are trying to stop the inflation. They care less about turning a profit but it just to bring prices down so people can have more fun and will risk more during PVP, as far as the frigates go got to start somewhere.



Yeah ... right ... and that's why communism worked.

Oh ... wait.
Kristoffon vonDrake
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
#14 - 2013-01-14 13:29:16 UTC
There are plenty of T1 ships that are profitable to produce - including destroyers both old and new for example. You do need Prod .Eff V though or you're just wasting you money. Without PE V you can stick to small rigs and other items with low numeric requirements on the BOM.

It is kind of sad really but without "wasting" two weeks training that up you wont get anywhere.
Samroski
Middle-Earth
#15 - 2013-01-14 18:03:30 UTC
Also consider traders who buy frigates very cheap, using regional orders e.g. 10 ISK each. Once enough ships pile up, they may be sold at any price for a good profit. May be a small segment of the market, with possibly a significant impact on prices.

Any colour you like.

Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-01-15 01:13:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Styth spiting
Count of MonteCylon wrote:
Example: I calculate a Punisher costs 480,000 ISK reasonably speaking to build, and I see them for sale in high-sec for at low at 350,000.

Really, what's the deal with this? Are they trying to help out newbies? If so then I understand it in a way, but a researched frigate BPO was the holy grail for me as an industrial newbie, until I realized that I couldn't turn a profit on the things Ugh


People made thousands (700,000 in the few weeks prior to the frigate patch) which means they were able to manufacture them at considerablly less then their now current material costs to manufacture. This means as long as they make more then the pre-patch costs they will make a profit.

And with a few hundred thousand of these pre-patch manufactured ships on the market trying to be moved as quickly as possible the profit that is possible because of all the competition is currently rather low.

Same thing happened with mining barges and cruisers.


Alain Colcer wrote:
Just buy the items if they are under reprocessing cost, melt them, and build new stuff.


Go ahead and try it. You'll see that because of the frigate changes the bulk of the additional material requirements added are "extra materials" which means they are not reclaimed when reprocessed.
Callduron
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#17 - 2013-01-16 11:02:54 UTC
Count of MonteCylon wrote:
Example: I calculate a Punisher costs 480,000 ISK reasonably speaking to build, and I see them for sale in high-sec for at low at 350,000.

Really, what's the deal with this? Are they trying to help out newbies? If so then I understand it in a way, but a researched frigate BPO was the holy grail for me as an industrial newbie, until I realized that I couldn't turn a profit on the things Ugh


Buy them, reprocess them, sell the minerals. That will fix it.

I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/

I post on reddit as /u/callduron.

Dave Stark
#18 - 2013-01-16 11:06:01 UTC
Wyke Mossari wrote:
RavenPaine wrote:
I have met hundreds of players who will tell you, "they get the minerals for free". You can't really compete with that mentality...


This is main reason, every other explanation is noise.


actually, i think you'll find tiericide is the main reason right now.
when you add minerals overnight, and inform every one you're going to do so, people will scramble to make thousands of them before the change to make profit from it after the change. as has happened with every ship touched by tiericide so far.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#19 - 2013-01-17 14:52:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Count of MonteCylon wrote:
Example: I calculate a Punisher costs 480,000 ISK reasonably speaking to build, and I see them for sale in high-sec for at low at 350,000.

Really, what's the deal with this? Are they trying to help out newbies? If so then I understand it in a way, but a researched frigate BPO was the holy grail for me as an industrial newbie, until I realized that I couldn't turn a profit on the things Ugh

If you do not know the answer to this you should not be building anything.

Try reading the developer blogs when they are posted on the launcher.

All mining ships, frigates, destroyers, and cruisers have been reworked under the teiricide plan. Most of these ships have had there mineral requirements increased. Everyone knew about this way in advance and many many manufacturers built large stock piles of these ships before the patch knowing they would be worth much more after. Most of these ships cost 3-5 times as much to build as they used to. the ships currently selling are those stockpiles. those sellers are making 50% profit or more, even though the ships can not be built any longer for those prices.

Battlecruisers will be done in the May expansion. Followed by battleships, T2 and T3.

By the time teiricide is done there will be no ship that can be built at a profit until the stock piles are gone. I expect that to take at least a year.

For example mining ships were done in October, and there are still massive stockpiles of them selling well below current manufacturing costs.

Sorry you missed the boat, unless you are going to build battlecruisers, or battleships in the next two months you will not be able make isk building ships for at least a year.

CCP was so paranoid about the exploits that would have been created doing this any other way, that they decided to just give all new ship manufacturers who missed the opportunity to stock pile these ships a great big C*** in A**, while once again helping the veterans get richer.
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#20 - 2013-01-19 03:24:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Panhead4411
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:


Sorry you missed the boat, unless you are going to build battlecruisers, or battleships in the next two months you will not be able make isk building ships for at least a year.

The figures i've seen on JUST the Procurers put the estimate of about 3-5 years worth were built in anticipation. I imagine it is roughly the same with most of the other T1 ships that got 'adjusted' this year.

And it will be this way for most of the T1 frigs, and cruisers, sad to say. This means new industrial characters have to invest alot more monies to get into anything even remotely worth while.

The quick and easy way to stabilize the market would be for CCP to adjust the scrap rate to reflect the new build costs. But alas, they refuse b/c 'it would benefit too many ppl making such easy money'....well guess what...thats already happening, you are just drawing it out over a very very long period of time with your current method.

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...

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