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Skill reallocation Option needs to finally be added and why
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Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#1 - 2013-01-12 15:45:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
Reading these forums for years and watching the game develop has been fun and interesting, however, it has also been a serious pain in the ass when they change certain aspect which force the player to spend months and sometimes years retraining, such as the nerfs they are giving the BC's in the upcoming patch will cause. (Among other things), and while perhaps not necessarily for the smaller items in game, when you start editing changing and nerfing the very functionality of ships which take years of training to fly properly, it is entirely inappropriate and unfair not to give the player some way to continue to play the game without the need for cross training or retraining of another ship.

Battleships are next on their chopping block from what I have read by the devs, and I suspect if this post is not given credit and this idea implemented, when they overhaul the battleships, demand for it will grow exponentially.

My proposal However does not deal solely with Nerfs and Game changes either.

It also deals with:

* New player opportunities and the Learning Curve

* Unused skills which are years old.

* Streamlining the skillsystem so it is less complicated.

* Making Eve more about the game play, then about What You have trained and what you don't. Right now because of the limited structure of the Skill System, you get in Eve and your only focus is to "Train skills".

I want to shift this focus from "Train Skills" to "Play Game". Allowing people to respec their skills lets them focus more on having Fun, then worrying about how they fapped up by training Mining when they figured out they wanted to pvp instead, and now have to worry about training basic pvp skills rather then simply transferring the SP and then going off to have fun while training other skills they need for pvp..

In leu of this, I believe it is high time the Developers finally added the Skill Reallocation feature to EvE.

* With this feature the player will no longer need to spend months training for another ship, item or whatever, simply because the devs decided to change something critical on a ship, item, weapon, whatever, which then made it useless for your play style, or ability.

* You will simply be able to open your skill chart, hit Respect and select the skills you wish to refund the SP for and then realocate it to another skill.

* This function already is setup and exists in EvE, the Devs have used it numerous times over the years. Its time they made it Optional and public for the player base itself.

* Restrictions of one or two respects per year could be implemented, such as with the attribute respects.
Kaikka Carel
Ziea
#2 - 2013-01-12 16:09:12 UTC
Should cost at least 1 PLEX.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-01-12 17:53:47 UTC
Sure, but I would also need to completely shut off your ability to gain Skill Points and would need compounding costs each time you do it. 1 plex first time, 2 plex second time, 4 plex third time, 8 plex fourth time, 16 plex fifth time, ect...

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#4 - 2013-01-12 18:05:20 UTC
I think this is a great idea.

Skills points should be able to be converted to unassigned skillpoints at some fair ratio, perhaps 6:1?
Noriko Mai
#5 - 2013-01-12 18:28:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Noriko Mai
I don't like it because the skill progress is a "progress". Not reasign skills like in Diablo 3. If you want skills, learn them.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-01-12 18:31:05 UTC  |  Edited by: De'Veldrin
This has been brought up before. My stance hasn't changed.

Not just no, but hell no.

Here's a thought - how about adapting your playstyle to fit changes in the game instead of adapting the game to your playstyle?

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-01-12 18:35:15 UTC
Randomly nerfing stuff that people spent years training into is the only way to keep the bittervets "interested" and give the noobs a chance to "catch up"; it's how they make sure that every once in a while everyone goes back to square zero and has to start over on something new. Reskilling would defeat the entire purpose of the "just adapt" approach to game development.

EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#8 - 2013-01-12 19:26:50 UTC  |  Edited by: sYnc Vir
I'm for a skill remap option, but only under a couple of terms.

Its a 1 toon 1 time thing.
its only once the re-balance has been finished.
It gives you all you skill points back.
It destroys all your extra clones due to skill loss.
You're required to re-buy all your skill books,
It cost a plex to start.
its only available for 30 days after the re-balance then is gone forever.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-01-12 19:28:16 UTC
Freighdee Katt wrote:
Randomly nerfing stuff that people spent years training into is the only way to keep the bittervets "interested" and give the noobs a chance to "catch up"; it's how they make sure that every once in a while everyone goes back to square zero and has to start over on something new. Reskilling would defeat the entire purpose of the "just adapt" approach to game development.


Oh please! Vets have all 4 races trained. Noobs are the only ones getting nerfed...Lol
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#10 - 2013-01-12 19:33:42 UTC
Most of the replies against this are Assumptions, Which have never been stated by CCP.


Every Game in existence eventually puts in a way to respec. Eve will also, it's simply a matter of when. One of the reasons so many people stop playing is because they realize theyve spent 3 months putting skills everywhere and that they should have focused their sp.

Not only will this fix problems with the consistently changing ships, weapons, and items, but it will also encourage new players to stay since their time "learning" about the Skill system will not be wasted.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#11 - 2013-01-12 19:38:07 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:
I'm for a skill remap option, but only under a couple of terms.

Its a 1 toon 1 time thing.
its only once the re-balance has been finished.
It gives you all you skill points back.
It destroys all your extra clones due to skill loss.
You're required to re-buy all your skill books,
It cost a plex to start.
its only available for 30 days after the re-balance then is gone forever.



I don't think you should have to re-buy any skill books, Your talking about billions and billions of ISK for some of us. And I am fine with this being set as once a year like the Attribute reskill.

Only once and gone forever will not work because battleships are next. and then capitals, and then something else, and then something else.

So this feature needs to be a repeating one.
Noriko Mai
#12 - 2013-01-12 19:39:56 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Freighdee Katt wrote:
Randomly nerfing stuff that people spent years training into is the only way to keep the bittervets "interested" and give the noobs a chance to "catch up"; it's how they make sure that every once in a while everyone goes back to square zero and has to start over on something new. Reskilling would defeat the entire purpose of the "just adapt" approach to game development.


Oh please! Vets have all 4 races trained. Noobs are the only ones getting nerfed...Lol

So true... But you can't please the instant gratification kids of today...


Freighdee Katt: You got the "STFU" achievement, be proud.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Noriko Mai
#13 - 2013-01-12 19:41:57 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Most of the replies against this are Assumptions, Which have never been stated by CCP.


Every Game in existence eventually puts in a way to respec. Eve will also, it's simply a matter of when. One of the reasons so many people stop playing is because they realize theyve spent 3 months putting skills everywhere and that they should have focused their sp.

Not only will this fix problems with the consistently changing ships, weapons, and items, but it will also encourage new players to stay since their time "learning" about the Skill system will not be wasted.

No! skills are never useless. People just don't get that EvE is not about Level 75 Paladin against lvl 80 Paladin...

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#14 - 2013-01-12 19:43:55 UTC
Freighdee Katt wrote:
Randomly nerfing stuff that people spent years training into is the only way to keep the bittervets "interested" and give the noobs a chance to "catch up"; it's how they make sure that every once in a while everyone goes back to square zero and has to start over on something new. Reskilling would defeat the entire purpose of the "just adapt" approach to game development.


Actually reskilling is part of Adapting, and would be classified as the ultimate adaption. You reskill when you cross train or retrain a new ship. This simply makes it so you can switch SP into those skills rather then spending months and years trying to get into a ship you can fly decently again.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#15 - 2013-01-12 19:46:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
Noriko Mai wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Most of the replies against this are Assumptions, Which have never been stated by CCP.


Every Game in existence eventually puts in a way to respec. Eve will also, it's simply a matter of when. One of the reasons so many people stop playing is because they realize theyve spent 3 months putting skills everywhere and that they should have focused their sp.

Not only will this fix problems with the consistently changing ships, weapons, and items, but it will also encourage new players to stay since their time "learning" about the Skill system will not be wasted.

No! skills are never useless. People just don't get that EvE is not about Level 75 Paladin against lvl 80 Paladin...



Skills for Autocannons are useless if you new fly a Megathron.

Skills for Blasters are now useless if you now fly a Tempest.

Skills for Torpedos are useless if you now fly an Abadon.

Skills for lasers are useless, if you do not fly Amarr.

Etc

Galente skillsets are useless, if you fly caldari.

Caldari Skillsets are useless, if you fly Amarr.

Etc

Oh yes, many many skills are USELESS, if you "never" USE THEM., so why not put those unused skillpoints into something more usefull foir you as a player?
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#16 - 2013-01-12 19:52:00 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
I'm for a skill remap option, but only under a couple of terms.

Its a 1 toon 1 time thing.
its only once the re-balance has been finished.
It gives you all you skill points back.
It destroys all your extra clones due to skill loss.
You're required to re-buy all your skill books,
It cost a plex to start.
its only available for 30 days after the re-balance then is gone forever.



I don't think you should have to re-buy any skill books, Your talking about billions and billions of ISK for some of us. And I am fine with this being set as once a year like the Attribute reskill.

Only once and gone forever will not work because battleships are next. and then capitals, and then something else, and then something else.

So this feature needs to be a repeating one.


Its called balance, wanna re-skill, fine. Cost you X amount to do.

It should maybe also insta put you -10 and give you a free open to all Kill Right for 30 Days from concord for using dirty dirty black market stuff.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#17 - 2013-01-12 19:59:00 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Oh yes, many many skills are USELESS, if you "never" USE THEM., so why not put those unused skillpoints into something more usefull foir you as a player?

Because decisions should have consequences.

Remove standings and insurance.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#18 - 2013-01-12 20:09:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
Sure decisions should have consequences, but training a skill is something you usualy do on the fly as needed, it is not a "Consequence" scenario, like me suicideing your hulk or wardecing you whatever.

There not even remotely the same kinds of decisions nor are they made for the same reasons.


You train skills for a BC for example because you like the BC. Its not your fault CCP decides to change the ship entirely thus making it pointless to fly it because of "your" "Playstyle".


Example: You fly Megathrons you've spent months training up your t2 blasters and perfecting your armor skills to fly it correctly.

- CCP goes, Ok people next patch the Megathron will become a Missile boat and be a shield tanker.

This effectively makes the Megathron useless to you and your Blaster/Armor playstyle.


That's a decision made by CCP, not YOU, a decision which you have 0 control over and can not in any way shape or form prevent.

Therefore you should not suffer because of it. And should have the option to reallocate your skills into missiles and shields, or hell, some other ship or whatever.
Noriko Mai
#19 - 2013-01-12 20:11:37 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Noriko Mai wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Most of the replies against this are Assumptions, Which have never been stated by CCP.


Every Game in existence eventually puts in a way to respec. Eve will also, it's simply a matter of when. One of the reasons so many people stop playing is because they realize theyve spent 3 months putting skills everywhere and that they should have focused their sp.

Not only will this fix problems with the consistently changing ships, weapons, and items, but it will also encourage new players to stay since their time "learning" about the Skill system will not be wasted.

No! skills are never useless. People just don't get that EvE is not about Level 75 Paladin against lvl 80 Paladin...



Skills for Autocannons are useless if you new fly a Megathron.

Skills for Blasters are now useless if you now fly a Tempest.

Skills for Torpedos are useless if you now fly an Abadon.

Skills for lasers are useless, if you do not fly Amarr.

Etc

Galente skillsets are useless, if you fly caldari.

Caldari Skillsets are useless, if you fly Amarr.

Etc

Oh yes, many many skills are USELESS, if you "never" USE THEM., so why not put those unused skillpoints into something more usefull foir you as a player?

I think about it in coherence with the lore. And the fact is that you (in rea and ingame) know a lot of things you think you never use. But in a certain situation you are happy to know something.

Skills for Autocannons are never useless because you don't know how to fit...

Skills for Blasters are now never useless because you WILL fly a respective ship some day

Skills for Torpedos are usnever useless. Maybe you join FW... (speed tank stealh bomber)

Skills for lasers are never useless, because someday you wil fil Amarr!

Etc

stupid argument is stupid.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#20 - 2013-01-12 20:14:03 UTC
Read the last post I made, I clarify quite nicely.
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