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Crime & Punishment

 
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James315 isnt going far enough

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Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#181 - 2013-01-11 13:36:38 UTC
Zol Interbottom wrote:
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Kestrix wrote:
So what your saying is, I'll just have to wait my turn... Ok so I got my ticket, how long is the que?

Still about 90% of highsec to do :D

Less if you live in an ice system.


But can you break my tank in the time it takes me to WARP THE **** AWAY 10 CATALYSTS ON DSCAN WARP WARP WARP

If you're properly tanked, aligned to a safe spot and watching dscan closely enough to pick us up in the 5 or so seconds we spend in space before shooting, then you're clearly already redeemed enough that we should focus our efforts on greater criminals.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#182 - 2013-01-11 13:46:03 UTC
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Wait, AFK miners don't contribute? So your telling me all those minerals on the market just auto-magically appear there? Who would have thunk it?

/sarcasm

Flooding the market with minerals is not necessarily a great thing.



Awww.....is it cutting into your profit margin?
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#183 - 2013-01-11 13:47:16 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Unit CA108AF wrote:
Isn't miner bumping in any form not to be discussed?

Requesting lock Smile


Ganking, however, has not been clarified. We are talkign about ganking, and podkills.

And how disgusting it is.


"disgusting"? lmao you're playing the wrong game
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#184 - 2013-01-11 13:48:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kainotomiu Ronuken
Estella Osoka wrote:
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Wait, AFK miners don't contribute? So your telling me all those minerals on the market just auto-magically appear there? Who would have thunk it?

/sarcasm

Flooding the market with minerals is not necessarily a great thing.



Awww.....is it cutting into your profit margin?

It would be if I were a decent, alert, interacting miner. I'm not though, so no.

The fact that it may be cutting into valuable players' profit margin, though, means that AFK miners are not contributing.
Complex Potential
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#185 - 2013-01-11 13:49:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Complex Potential
Comment removed. Too much risk of being misinterpreted.
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#186 - 2013-01-11 13:50:53 UTC
Complex Potential wrote:
The choice of the name "New Order" is interesting. I am assuming it has something to do with the expanded Star Wars universe, however, there is another "New Order" which has a far more sinister background and is unfortunately rooted in real life.

Can ya guess what it is yet?

Here's some clues:

First word: Mr Andersons's real world alter ego in the matrix.
Second word: starts with "N" ends in "i".

We've heard of both. The New Order of Halaima is not related to either.
Complex Potential
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#187 - 2013-01-11 13:54:10 UTC
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Complex Potential wrote:
The choice of the name "New Order" is interesting. I am assuming it has something to do with the expanded Star Wars universe, however, there is another "New Order" which has a far more sinister background and is unfortunately rooted in real life.

Can ya guess what it is yet?

Here's some clues:

First word: Mr Andersons's real world alter ego in the matrix.
Second word: starts with "N" ends in "i".

We've heard of both. The New Order of Halaima is not related to either.


So was the name inspire from anything or is the origin lost in the mists of time?
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#188 - 2013-01-11 13:54:34 UTC
Complex Potential wrote:
The choice of the name "New Order" is interesting. I am assuming it has something to do with the expanded Star Wars universe, however, there is another "New Order" which has a far more sinister background and is unfortunately rooted in real life.

Can ya guess what it is yet?

Here's some clues:

First word: Mr Andersons's real world alter ego in the matrix.
Second word: starts with "N" ends in "i".


You must be a thoroughly disgusting human being if you compare being mildly inconvenienced in a video game to the persecution the jews faced during world war 2.

Just saying
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#189 - 2013-01-11 13:57:03 UTC
Complex Potential wrote:
So was the name inspire from anything or is the origin lost in the mists of time?

James' own original idea, I believe. Any other New Orders are coincidental.
Complex Potential
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#190 - 2013-01-11 14:00:51 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Complex Potential wrote:
The choice of the name "New Order" is interesting. I am assuming it has something to do with the expanded Star Wars universe, however, there is another "New Order" which has a far more sinister background and is unfortunately rooted in real life.

Can ya guess what it is yet?

Here's some clues:

First word: Mr Andersons's real world alter ego in the matrix.
Second word: starts with "N" ends in "i".


You must be a thoroughly disgusting human being if you compare being mildly inconvenienced in a video game to the persecution the jews faced during world war 2.

Just saying


I am certainly NOT comparing those two things. Just pointing out the unfortunate choice of name.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#191 - 2013-01-11 14:07:58 UTC
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Wait, AFK miners don't contribute? So your telling me all those minerals on the market just auto-magically appear there? Who would have thunk it?

/sarcasm

Flooding the market with minerals is not necessarily a great thing.



Awww.....is it cutting into your profit margin?

It would be if I were a decent, alert, interacting miner. I'm not though, so no.

The fact that it may be cutting into valuable players' profit margin, though, means that AFK miners are not contributing.


Or they are using the mats they mine to fuel thier own manufacturing.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#192 - 2013-01-11 18:10:54 UTC
Mira Robinson wrote:
Lin Suizei wrote:
Mira Robinson wrote:
Yep pretty much. Allow extortion or be killed.

The Highsec Mafia, capsuleers and gentlemen.

And just like in real life, by the time the police arrive, the damage is done, and the mayor (CCP) doesn't really care as long as they get re-elected.


Behold, ladies and gentlemen, the bot-aspirant. In his desire to not play EVE (AFK mine), he is unwilling to lift a finger to defend himself and fight back, and would rather cry ~extortion~ on the forums or wait for other people to do the heavy lifting. Fellow capsuleers, we cannot allow New Eden to belong to such machine-creatures.

Mira, with every word, you remind us of why we fight, and why we cannot stop until every highsec miner adheres strictly to the Code, or lies broken at the hands of the Knights.

I never said I was AFK mining.

I have never been successfully ganked in a belt.

The fact that you are not just targeting AFK miners, but also miners who do not buy a worthless permit, you are extorting them. That's not open for debate, that's the definition of the word, sweetheart.

I enjoy looking at the drama not only on here, but also over on MinerBumping. I would certainly be pro New Order if they were only targeting bots, but they are not. They are merely bored gankers who have nothing better to do than to shoot at players who cannot fight back. Whichever side wins, so do I, because I'm here for the drama.



If you wish to be an Agent, you decide how you want to help fight the bot aspirant way of Eve Life. You do not have to gank. You yourself can patrol ice fields bumping bots out and would be equally helpful.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#193 - 2013-01-11 18:14:03 UTC
Zol Interbottom wrote:
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Kestrix wrote:
So what your saying is, I'll just have to wait my turn... Ok so I got my ticket, how long is the que?

Still about 90% of highsec to do :D

Less if you live in an ice system.


But can you break my tank in the time it takes me to WARP THE **** AWAY 10 CATALYSTS ON DSCAN WARP WARP WARP



If we can't, and you do, then mission objective is still achieved. That's the point.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Mira Robinson
#194 - 2013-01-11 19:13:19 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Mira Robinson wrote:
Lin Suizei wrote:
Mira Robinson wrote:
Yep pretty much. Allow extortion or be killed.

The Highsec Mafia, capsuleers and gentlemen.

And just like in real life, by the time the police arrive, the damage is done, and the mayor (CCP) doesn't really care as long as they get re-elected.


Behold, ladies and gentlemen, the bot-aspirant. In his desire to not play EVE (AFK mine), he is unwilling to lift a finger to defend himself and fight back, and would rather cry ~extortion~ on the forums or wait for other people to do the heavy lifting. Fellow capsuleers, we cannot allow New Eden to belong to such machine-creatures.

Mira, with every word, you remind us of why we fight, and why we cannot stop until every highsec miner adheres strictly to the Code, or lies broken at the hands of the Knights.

I never said I was AFK mining.

I have never been successfully ganked in a belt.

The fact that you are not just targeting AFK miners, but also miners who do not buy a worthless permit, you are extorting them. That's not open for debate, that's the definition of the word, sweetheart.

I enjoy looking at the drama not only on here, but also over on MinerBumping. I would certainly be pro New Order if they were only targeting bots, but they are not. They are merely bored gankers who have nothing better to do than to shoot at players who cannot fight back. Whichever side wins, so do I, because I'm here for the drama.



If you wish to be an Agent, you decide how you want to help fight the bot aspirant way of Eve Life. You do not have to gank. You yourself can patrol ice fields bumping bots out and would be equally helpful.

Sorry to disappoint, but that is the key that ultimately turns me away from the New Order. I draw the line at bots.

Bot aspirants? Even James' blog was a bit vague on what constitutes that.

If a player wants to sit for hours on end staring at mining lasers, as long as they're at the keyboard, then go for it.

The system I was in (up til this morning) had an ice field, and there are several ships that I am absolutely confident are botting. Did I bump them for a few minutes? Yeah, for giggles. But I moved my operation because I felt it was getting a bit too crowded.

Earlier today, the Dixon Mining Guild and the Butz Manufacturing Corporation formed a coalition.

It's hard to tell if there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the Dixon-Butz Alliance.
Lin Suizei
#195 - 2013-01-12 00:40:16 UTC
Mira Robinson wrote:
If a player wants to sit for hours on end staring at mining lasers, as long as they're at the keyboard, then go for it.


There is no difference between such a player and a bot. Let me propose for you the following thought experiment:

Disregarding the fact that botting is against the EULA (i.e. "CCP says so"), why do you disagree with botting? If you disagree with botting, then how can you agree with bot-aspirant gameplay - human gameplay which intends to mimic a bot as much as possible?

Lol I can't delete my forum sig.
Mira Robinson
#196 - 2013-01-12 01:12:05 UTC
Lin Suizei wrote:
Mira Robinson wrote:
If a player wants to sit for hours on end staring at mining lasers, as long as they're at the keyboard, then go for it.


There is no difference between such a player and a bot. Let me propose for you the following thought experiment:

Disregarding the fact that botting is against the EULA (i.e. "CCP says so"), why do you disagree with botting? If you disagree with botting, then how can you agree with bot-aspirant gameplay - human gameplay which intends to mimic a bot as much as possible?

Now you're just being silly.

Obviously, when a ATK miner spends 6 hours mining, that is 6 player hours. All that ore was rightfully gathered.
When a bot mines for 6 hours, that's 0 player hours.

So, if my math is right, one has a player spending 6 hours in Eve. The other has 0.

That's the difference, and that is why I will never criticize a bot aspirant, because they are at the keyboard, and not really a bot, playing however they want.

You're just making an excuse to gank people. Give me a break; this is Eve, you don't NEED an excuse.

I've known about the New Order for 20 out of the 23 days I've been back in Eve. On Day 2 I pretty much surmised that it was ingenious trolling beneath a veil of simply terrible role-playing.

Earlier today, the Dixon Mining Guild and the Butz Manufacturing Corporation formed a coalition.

It's hard to tell if there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the Dixon-Butz Alliance.
Lin Suizei
#197 - 2013-01-12 02:05:55 UTC
Mira Robinson wrote:
That's the difference, and that is why I will never criticize a bot aspirant, because they are at the keyboard, and not really a bot, playing however they want..


Put aside your prejudice, and consider this from a neutral perspective.

Do you dislike bots? Why? If you dislike bots, does it not then make sense to also despise the human player, whose actions so closely mimic that of the bot that one is unable to tell the difference between the two? If the bot-aspirant plays in a way that we cannot tell if it is a bot or a human, then is there effectively no difference between the two?

Quote:
The system I was in (up til this morning) had an ice field, and there are several ships that I am absolutely confident are botting


You mentioned earlier that you identified some ships that you were "absolutely confident" are botting. What if I told you they weren't bots, but bot-aspirant players - would you hate them any less? When bot-aspirants mimic bots so closely that one cannot reliably differentiate between the two, how can you be so confident that these ships are piloted by bots, and not bot-aspirant players?

Lol I can't delete my forum sig.
Mira Robinson
#198 - 2013-01-12 02:17:07 UTC
Lin Suizei wrote:
Mira Robinson wrote:
That's the difference, and that is why I will never criticize a bot aspirant, because they are at the keyboard, and not really a bot, playing however they want..


Put aside your prejudice, and consider this from a neutral perspective.

Do you dislike bots? Why? If you dislike bots, does it not then make sense to also despise the human player, whose actions so closely mimic that of the bot that one is unable to tell the difference between the two? If the bot-aspirant plays in a way that we cannot tell if it is a bot or a human, then is there effectively no difference between the two?

Quote:
The system I was in (up til this morning) had an ice field, and there are several ships that I am absolutely confident are botting


You mentioned earlier that you identified some ships that you were "absolutely confident" are botting. What if I told you they weren't bots, but bot-aspirant players - would you hate them any less? When bot-aspirants mimic bots so closely that one cannot reliably differentiate between the two, how can you be so confident that these ships are piloted by bots, and not bot-aspirant players?

No, I do not hate bot aspirant players. Because they are human players. Man hours is all I need to justify whatever a player is doing. AI hours are the ones that should be purged.

The way I knew they were either bots, or AFK, was they had not moved from their positions in 15 hours in the ice belt. An Orca surrounded by 3 hulks. No response to a PM request was all the proof I needed.

Earlier today, the Dixon Mining Guild and the Butz Manufacturing Corporation formed a coalition.

It's hard to tell if there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the Dixon-Butz Alliance.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#199 - 2013-01-12 02:32:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Sara Arran wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
To put it bluntly, this is a stupid idea.


How so? I enjoy tears as much as anyone but we have an opportunity to persuade new players to do something interesting rather than shoot rocks and then leave cos its dull as **** or become entitled dicks who think they should be able to shoot rocks without anyone bothering them.



If players don't mindlessly afk while shooting rocks for hours on end every day than the price of minerals will go through the roof making ships more expensive to fly ergo decreasing the amount of pew pew pvpers can do on a budget.

Hence without afk mining PVP is not possible at its current rate.

I know ganking is fun and all but lets look at this pragmatically.

If you PVP you want miners to afk to make your ships cheaper otherewise ships will be so expensive everyone will just dock up and ship spin their expensive pretty ships.

On EVE economics....

Missioning creates isk.

Mining does not. It only creates minerals which are traded for isk.

Ergo mining does not cause inflation but rather the deflation of prices of minerals.

And to clarify AFK mining is not botting and botting should result in a ban. AFK mining just means you aren't paying that much attention to what you are doing.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Lin Suizei
#200 - 2013-01-12 05:28:53 UTC
Mira Robinson wrote:
No, I do not hate bot aspirant players. Because they are human players. Man hours is all I need to justify whatever a player is doing. AI hours are the ones that should be purged.

The way I knew they were either bots, or AFK, was they had not moved from their positions in 15 hours in the ice belt. An Orca surrounded by 3 hulks. No response to a PM request was all the proof I needed.


You still haven't answered the question - why do you dislike bots? What's wrong with botting, apart from "CCP said it's bad"?

If your answer is "nothing", and you support botting, that's your choice.

If you do have an answer, and you dislike botting, then it is only logical that you also hate the bot-aspirant, who behaves in almost exactly the same way as a bot, to the point that we cannot tell them apart - as evidenced by your description of the ships you spotted earlier as "either bots, or AFK" - that is, there is no way for a player to tell a bot-aspirant from a bot.

Lol I can't delete my forum sig.