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We Are Responsible....

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March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2013-01-10 10:25:53 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
CFC and the HBC have done more for new players than highsec ever will.

- 90% of trolling posts in Eve Online forums
- lots of fun on FanFest 2012
- killed sov in 0.0
- hate to miners
- hate to high-seccers
- what did i miss here?

yea, sure. Lots of help to the game.
high-sec can't achieve the same Cool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Fuddan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2013-01-10 10:29:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Fuddan
I don't get where they are getting that from, Im a returning player , I quit the game 3 years ago, I had played for 72 days and each day there was only around 15,000 to 20,000 playing, Now that ive come back, the past 2 weeks ive seen around 44,000 on at the time I get on.. So if the game was failing, it would have failed 3 years ago because obviously something has changed for the population to be up from where it used to be as mentioned in my story. Seems more are playing now days than 3 years ago, so its not failing..
NL Nataku
Manson Family
Advent of Fate
#103 - 2013-01-10 12:09:54 UTC
Fuddan wrote:
I don't get where they are getting that from, Im a returning player , I quit the game 3 years ago, I had played for 72 days and each day there was only around 15,000 to 20,000 playing, Now that ive come back, the past 2 weeks ive seen around 44,000 on at the time I get on.. So if the game was failing, it would have failed 3 years ago because obviously something has changed for the population to be up from where it used to be as mentioned in my story. Seems more are playing now days than 3 years ago, so its not failing..


Take away the people that are flying with two or more accounts and I am pretty sure you will be left with a substantial lower number then what you see online on any given time.

However the rudeness and troll behavior in eve knows no bounds and allthough i get what the op is getting at its also a part of eve. Though i am pretty sure alot of people have left eve because of this I think it would impossible to change it at this point. Now eve becomes alot easier and more tolerable once someone finds a corp/alliance and can get along with the people in it. However here in lies another problem seeing as the existing corps/alliance are a bit paranoid and can be very picky who they let in and for good reasons. Its not uncommon for people to make alts get in a corp and completely destroy it even if it takes them a few months, since if eve teaches one thing its patience.

So all in all eve is a very hard place for new players to find their place in. And its not just players being complete assholes to one another, eve itself isn't the most exciting game in existence and for people that don't have any patience what so ever its a no show in any case.

Could ccp do something about it, maybe. But all the suggestions that have been made over the years usually got shot down by people with the reason that can be summed up as "I had to do it so new players have to aswell". Thats just terrible the gab between the older players and newer players in eve is enormous.
waltari
State War Academy
Caldari State
#104 - 2013-01-10 12:54:03 UTC
Funny to see how next to every thread on forums goes off topic and turns into blaming CFC and HBC for destroying the game. I feel like in constant dejavu everytime i read no matter what (excluding the trade sections)
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#105 - 2013-01-10 12:59:39 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
CFC and the HBC have done more for new players than highsec ever will.

This is truly the real reason why highsec should be nerfed, highseccers just chase new players away with their misguided elitism. In highsec you're either in a pimped out marauder or T3, or you're in a hulk or mackinaw or you're worthless, whereas in nullsec t1 frigates and new players who are willing to take risks are actually useful and are rewarded by those who remember the difficulties they had as a new player.

When's the last time you sent someone who's been in the game for less than a month isk for helping you? Or are you too busy racking up the amount on your wallet screen to care?

This is the real reason why we hate you, because you're all sociopaths.


This post is correct. Both TEST and Goonswarm have done more to recruit new players into the game and give them the tools to succeed than anybody in hisec. Both groups form their entire identities around newbies. Meanwhile, hisec groups such as incursion gangs are extremely exclusive of anybody who does not have an officer fit Nightmare and will belittle them as useless poors.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#106 - 2013-01-10 13:01:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Oh and before any elitist hisec player uses the "well we don't have 90 tech moons to help newbies with" excuse I'm just going to say that we did the same exact stuff long before we had any significant, nationalized source of income

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Ildryn
IDLE INTENTIONS
#107 - 2013-01-10 20:38:02 UTC
Max Doobie wrote:
Ildryn wrote:
Max Doobie wrote:


Stuff...sounds important...totally not...



How is that Test/Goon Scamming of new players going?
Did Hulkageddon work out favorably for your corp?
How many noobs did your corp destroy in the burn Jita event?
Is your corp the botter corp? Or are you in a corp that just benefits from it?

I'll bet new players would stay longer over some guy complaining than one of the above events.
If you are legit, start on your own alliance first. Spread through your blues...then feel free to whine more about elitists
and the like.


Irony = Test/Goons coming in and telling others about morals....



Why would anyone scam a noob??? They have nothing to take. ANY scammers I know in nullsec don't even talk to you unless they see you have at least 2-3 bill dude...

I could copy and paste a link to our forums where HBC are told specifically to NOT scam new players, as they are our bread and butter. I personally wouldn't bother with an Alliance that scammed New players or even returning players for that matter as, again, I take the issue of EVE's growth VERY seriously. I CANNOT control what someone else does dude. You will find scammers in EVERY SINGLE alliance in EVE, excluding Ivy League. That's a FACT< whether it's permitted or not, it's happening in some form.

I can also tell you first hand that TEST does NOT allow botting in any shape or form. Thousands of people in TEST, don't you think someone would snitch??? Montolio crawled up my ass personally once for admitting to AFK mining, so I know damned well he won't stand for botters in his alliance as that **** could get us shut down completely. Years of hard work for some easy isk when we already make tons from our LEGIT sources??? Nah dude...stop reading EN24.




Conveniently left out the Jita Interdiction and Hulkageddon where newer players did die.
You must not realize that many new players buy accounts using the real money > plex > isk > Character bazaar.
These players then get scammed and suicide ganked like everyone else by test/goons.
Just because the character is 3-6 years old does not mean the player is.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#108 - 2013-01-10 21:21:29 UTC
Ildryn wrote:
Conveniently left out the Jita Interdiction and Hulkageddon where newer players did die.
You must not realize that many new players buy accounts using the real money > plex > isk > Character bazaar.
These players then get scammed and suicide ganked like everyone else by test/goons.
Just because the character is 3-6 years old does not mean the player is.


You don't buy accounts through the character sale forum. EVE isn't a pay to win game - buying timecodes/PLEX and trading them for ISK doesn't exempt you from the "cold, harsh" part of the game just like you're not exempt from it if you get there through playing the game.

Suicide ganking and scams are what separates this game from ~grind4epix~ themepark MMOs.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#109 - 2013-01-11 18:40:46 UTC
rswfire wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
As far i know almost every new player knows what he or she is getting into when they first subscribe into EvE
EvE has that reputation , to be harsh , and unforgivable to the new unsuspected player, just look atother game forums , when ever they mention EvE everybody shivers and get scared


I wholeheartedly disagree with this.

Reason 1:
When I started Eve, all I knew about it was it was "a space game." I was ganked the second I joined my first corp and left the station I applied in. I didn't know what had happened to me or why. Look at my employment history. Eve lost me for several years after that. Who the hell wants to learn a new game where they are constantly being harassed by jackasses? Sorry, but there are a lot of them here. They aren't what make Eve great; they're what ruin the fun for a lot of people. I get it, those guys are perfectly happy with the status quo; they don't mind low subscription numbers so they are quick to say, "If you don't like it, don't play it...or this game isn't for you." My response, "How about you give me a moment to decide if I even like this game enough to want to put up with your crap?" If you're one of them and you want to respond to me with "cry some more" all I have to say is "sorry, but this is my game too! And wanting to enjoy my free time isn't crying. There's room for both of us here; fail to understand your actions, and neither of us will be forever."

Reason 2:
When I tell people I play Eve, most have never even heard of it. Sorry, but that's a fact, and that is why CCP to this day buys advertising on Google AdWords. Do other MMOs do this? Ten years later? I can't think of one. Not ever. In the history of MMOs. And you know what I tell my friends? "Don't even bother trying it." I'm not going to support this game or tell my friends to play it when I know they won't enjoy it. Why am I here? Because, for the moment, I'm willing to deal with the parasites that make up the Eve ecosystem for the parts of the game I actually do enjoy. Yeah, I'm shivering and shaking in my boots, all right. Eve has no reputation; it's not known. And that's actually a good thing.



Avid gamers do know about Eve. Frequent flyers of "flavor of the month" blockbusters do not. The reason is because Eve has been around for quite sometime. It also applies to a different caliber of players. If you want instant gratification, Eve is real hard to get around (I learned this when I first tried Eve when I was playing EQ back in it's prime).

The hardest part about Eve, is trying to imply anyone needs to let anyone do anything. That's the biggest thing to get over. Eve is about learning from your mistakes, not having the inside track. Shortcuts end up biting you in the ass.


It's just simply a frame of mind from people who used to play games that had sustance and content. Not games trying to appease those who have an attention span shorter than 3 minutes.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
rswfire
#110 - 2013-01-11 18:57:30 UTC  |  Edited by: rswfire
Murk Paradox wrote:
Avid gamers do know about Eve. Frequent flyers of "flavor of the month" blockbusters do not. The reason is because Eve has been around for quite sometime. It also applies to a different caliber of players. If you want instant gratification, Eve is real hard to get around (I learned this when I first tried Eve when I was playing EQ back in it's prime).

The hardest part about Eve, is trying to imply anyone needs to let anyone do anything. That's the biggest thing to get over. Eve is about learning from your mistakes, not having the inside track. Shortcuts end up biting you in the ass.

It's just simply a frame of mind from people who used to play games that had sustance and content. Not games trying to appease those who have an attention span shorter than 3 minutes.


I'm 35, and an avid gamer. I'm also not looking for the flavor of the month. I grew up around games that required time and focus. And I stand by what I said; this game isn't well-known, and that is a good thing. It is a good thing because it can redeem itself without having to get over the hurdle of the stigma it does have with a small population of avid gamers.

Edit: Those Google AdWords campaigns I mentioned? They bring in new people. They just don't stick around, and I think a lot of people know why. If you're okay with that, that's fine. Clearly, they wouldn't still be advertising it if they felt their numbers were so great. Also, why advertise what is allegedly well-known? (Yes, companies like Tide do this, but retail marketing is a different beast.)

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#111 - 2013-01-11 19:08:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Well, back when Everquest was I think around 2 years old, Eve came out and at the time (tinfoil time!) everyone was going on about how that game was going to destroy EQ (plenty of games created the same paranoia, nothing new) and quite a few people played both.

Even back then, there were gasps of awe at how inconceivable it was to hear that someone spent months saving money and time to fly a bigass ship worth millions and millions of currency to have it lost if it got blown up.

Just, gone.

This was 10 years ago.

Back before EQ put out AA points, before their influx of expansions, back when Baldur's Gate still had populated servers.

10 years in a gamer's life is eons. Even now, if someone clicks show info and sees employment info showing from 2004 people get in awe.

Point being, I'm not arguing the fact, I'm just stating how alot of people who thought WoW was the birth of MMOs don't necessarily belong in Eve just because Eve is classified as a MMO. The same people who think they use their subs as hostage negotiations are in for a big suprise.

Not all games cater to those kind of mouth breathers =).

But after awhile, word of mouth marketing dies down because simply, generations die out. It just does.

I personally have never seen Eve in google as an advertisement. But I do on facebook, or torrent sites, or random other places I've visited.

Eve and CCP will want more subscribers, but that doesn't mean the game is for everyone hehe.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#112 - 2013-01-11 20:07:12 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD LackOfFaith
Cleaned up the thread for breaches of the following forum rules:

Quote:

4. Be respectful of others at all times.
The purpose of the forum is to provide a platform for the exchange of ideas. Occasionally, there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Be courteous when disagreeing with others. It is possible to disagree without being insulting.

6. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another. Text of this nature is not beneficial to the community spirit and will not be tolerated. Corporation, faction and alliance members and other players are cautioned to avoid allowing “in character” disputes from becoming "out of character" personal attacks. The game is designed for role-playing and/or portraying a role and it is sometimes easy for tempers to flare when the lines between the virtual world and the real world are crossed. Please keep in-game disputes in the game and off the forum unless it is clearly a mutual, in-character exchange.

7. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is the word used to describe a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting the players. Posts of this nature are disruptive and do not contribute to the sense of community we want for our forums.

19. Avoid using profanity.
Using partial masking (such as asterisks or punctuation marks) to bypass the profanity filter is prohibited and will result in the same action as if the actual word had been typed.


Especially as this is quite a sensitive topic that a lot of you feel strongly on, please try to keep the discussion civil and courteous. If the flaming and trolling continues, the thread may get permanently locked (as it has had two cleanups already).

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
rswfire
#113 - 2013-01-11 21:48:28 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
Especially as this is quite a sensitive topic that a lot of you feel strongly on, please try to keep the discussion civil and courteous. If the flaming and trolling continues, the thread may get permanently locked (as it has had two cleanups already).


I agree, this is a sensitive topic, and hopefully my comments are received in the manner they were intended. I rarely post here for a reason but I felt strongly about what was said. I didn't mention I agree with the op's sentiment, however, and that's because I have a hard time supporting someone who would willingly join or stay in a corp known for so much of what I personally feel is wrong with the ecosystem of this game. That said, I've no doubt this is an endless debate that has existed for years, and really, there is nothing that is going to change it in the end. Eve is what it is.

About Firesworn Nation .|. FB .|. G+ .|. Steam
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#114 - 2013-01-11 21:50:47 UTC
Great, LackofFaith has gotten me curious... what is this thread about now? What?

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2013-01-11 22:05:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Andski wrote:
EI Digin wrote:
CFC and the HBC have done more for new players than highsec ever will.

This is truly the real reason why highsec should be nerfed, highseccers just chase new players away with their misguided elitism. In highsec you're either in a pimped out marauder or T3, or you're in a hulk or mackinaw or you're worthless, whereas in nullsec t1 frigates and new players who are willing to take risks are actually useful and are rewarded by those who remember the difficulties they had as a new player.

When's the last time you sent someone who's been in the game for less than a month isk for helping you? Or are you too busy racking up the amount on your wallet screen to care?

This is the real reason why we hate you, because you're all sociopaths.


This post is correct. Both TEST and Goonswarm have done more to recruit new players into the game and give them the tools to succeed than anybody in hisec. Both groups form their entire identities around newbies. Meanwhile, hisec groups such as incursion gangs are extremely exclusive of anybody who does not have an officer fit Nightmare and will belittle them as useless poors.

I haven't run incursions lately but when I did there were plenty of people accepted with T1 BS's and T1 guns with meta fits. At the same time their is a lower limit to what you can take in and what your fitting and skills can be unless you just like inviting noobs to get alpha'd by NPC's. You weren't in the shiny fleets, but then not every nullsec corp/alliance has no SP limit for it's members or tailors it's fleet doctrines around noobs.

In addition while I can't say anything regarding TEST as I've not looked at their recruitment policies, doesn't the GSF discriminate against the larger population of new players by the requirement of being an SA member?
Ildryn
IDLE INTENTIONS
#116 - 2013-01-11 22:17:26 UTC
Andski wrote:
Ildryn wrote:
Conveniently left out the Jita Interdiction and Hulkageddon where newer players did die.
You must not realize that many new players buy accounts using the real money > plex > isk > Character bazaar.
These players then get scammed and suicide ganked like everyone else by test/goons.
Just because the character is 3-6 years old does not mean the player is.


You don't buy accounts through the character sale forum. EVE isn't a pay to win game - buying timecodes/PLEX and trading them for ISK doesn't exempt you from the "cold, harsh" part of the game just like you're not exempt from it if you get there through playing the game.

Suicide ganking and scams are what separates this game from ~grind4epix~ themepark MMOs.


Made my point thank you.

Point was new players get scammed/ganked.
Max Doobie was saying they didn't.
Thank you in helping me with my argument against one of your little bees.
Anndy
The Evocati
#117 - 2013-01-11 22:23:20 UTC
Dreusyla Arashi wrote:
Anndy wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Anndy wrote:
no the problem is theres a lot more asshats now and its become normal, its been accepted and encouraged for a few years now, the only thing thats changed is people are getting sick of it

Actually, it's the other way round.
There are more and more people not understanding what the game stands for.
Look at the advertisements. That's the reality of the game.
They ignore that and whine about things that are perfectly natural within this environment.

The weak die, the strong survive. It's natural, but they can't deal with that,
because they think they are smart. They think they are strong.

We show them that they are wrong ... and that's why they whine, cry and rage.


it is NOW yes but it never used to be, this used to be a good community, sure you had some of the same stuff but it was rare then goons happened


you know this kinda posting irratates me i hate the goons too but you know what? before goons there was BoB... so befoer shooting our mouth off about the big alliances... remember that there will always be another ******* alliance to take over that spot


lol you really want to compare goons to bob? bob was nothing like goons they actually kept the game fun and interesting and without them eve is really empty, the only thing goons and bob have in common is that at some point in their history they were top dog
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#118 - 2013-01-11 22:25:50 UTC
Max Doobie wrote:
I BELIEVE in letting people play as they will..

And you believe in berating people who don't play the way you want them to.

Roll

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#119 - 2013-01-11 22:39:00 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

In addition while I can't say anything regarding TEST as I've not looked at their recruitment policies, doesn't the GSF discriminate against the larger population of new players by the requirement of being an SA member?


The Goonwaffe corp is the only one that does that, and not even strictly.

The other corporations in the GSF alliance set their own recruitment standards. If you expand this to the entire CFC, you can find a wide variety of corporations that recruit publicly on anything from your SP, to your language/nationality, to being members of some completely different non-eve forums.

The newbee friendliness of Goonwaffe spills over into all of them though, as our largess knows no bounds.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2013-01-11 22:45:39 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

In addition while I can't say anything regarding TEST as I've not looked at their recruitment policies, doesn't the GSF discriminate against the larger population of new players by the requirement of being an SA member?


The Goonwaffe corp is the only one that does that, and not even strictly.

The other corporations in the GSF alliance set their own recruitment standards. If you expand this to the entire CFC, you can find a wide variety of corporations that recruit publicly on anything from your SP, to your language/nationality, to being members of some completely different non-eve forums.

The newbee friendliness of Goonwaffe spills over into all of them though, as our largess knows no bounds.

I stand corrected on the larger GSF recruitment policies, my apologies for the incorrect information. That said, the other criteria you mention create the same myriad of barriers to the organizations that employ them as similar groups across security statuses.

There are, have been, and will continue to be friendly help across security bands and the blanket statements aimed at large swaths of players are neither remotely accurate or constructive.