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Capital Hull Sized Mining Barge
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Dave stark
#41 - 2013-01-11 12:08:27 UTC
Fanatic Row wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
doesn't matter if they revamp industry, you're still going to mine the most lucrative ore, and sell it to buy what you need. industry revamps aren't guaranteed to change market prices to make mining low end ores more lucrative (and, why should it?).

as far as mining and industry goes, there are far more important things that need to happen than a "capital waste of space" ship like this.
I think you should stop looking at industry and 0.0 conflict as 2 separate ecosystems. You're a bit too focused on the individual ISK/h part of the equation. Which is exactly the opposite of what everyone in 0.0 is asking for in regards to this.


i have no idea what point you're trying to make with that post.
Fanatic Row
Neo T.E.C.H.
#42 - 2013-01-11 12:24:54 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Fanatic Row wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
doesn't matter if they revamp industry, you're still going to mine the most lucrative ore, and sell it to buy what you need. industry revamps aren't guaranteed to change market prices to make mining low end ores more lucrative (and, why should it?).

as far as mining and industry goes, there are far more important things that need to happen than a "capital waste of space" ship like this.
I think you should stop looking at industry and 0.0 conflict as 2 separate ecosystems. You're a bit too focused on the individual ISK/h part of the equation. Which is exactly the opposite of what everyone in 0.0 is asking for in regards to this.


i have no idea what point you're trying to make with that post.
I'm talking about large scale industrial operations as conflict drivers and alliance level income in 0.0 – and the possibility of capital mining ships being part of that. Player controlled assets that need to be committed to the activity.

You are continuously talking about mineral prices and ISK per hour income. Hence my jab at you trying to see the bigger picture.

Obviously something like that is going to need appropriate risk vs. reward, but centering the discussion around that is rather counter-productive.

If everything was pure ISK/h there would be 1 activity in EVE and everyone would do just that.
Dave stark
#43 - 2013-01-11 12:29:34 UTC
Fanatic Row wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Fanatic Row wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
doesn't matter if they revamp industry, you're still going to mine the most lucrative ore, and sell it to buy what you need. industry revamps aren't guaranteed to change market prices to make mining low end ores more lucrative (and, why should it?).

as far as mining and industry goes, there are far more important things that need to happen than a "capital waste of space" ship like this.
I think you should stop looking at industry and 0.0 conflict as 2 separate ecosystems. You're a bit too focused on the individual ISK/h part of the equation. Which is exactly the opposite of what everyone in 0.0 is asking for in regards to this.


i have no idea what point you're trying to make with that post.
I'm talking about large scale industrial operations as conflict drivers and alliance level income in 0.0 – and the possibility of capital mining ships being part of that. Player controlled assets that need to be committed to the activity.

You are continuously talking about mineral prices and ISK per hour income. Hence my jab at you trying to see the bigger picture.

Obviously something like that is going to need appropriate risk vs. reward, but centering the discussion around that is rather counter-productive.

If everything was pure ISK/h there would be 1 activity in EVE and everyone would do just that.


oh right yeah, sorry, still half asleep.

*shrug* to be fair, people mine for isk, or so they can be afk (so you still want good isk/hour, really). never really heard any one say "i'm going to go and mine because it's so fun!". i, as a miner, do it because i can do other stuff while i do it. so isk/hour is a pretty big part of it.

i don't think we really need capital mining ships to drive conflict, surely the ogb changes could address that quite easily without the hideous side affect of devaluing minerals? it also still has risk vs reward. better boosts, bring your rorq on grid. standard boosts, use an orca. not to mention the orca is still a fairly nice target, just shy of 1bn isk for an orca + fittings. close to 2bn if you get the pod, too since they'll no doubt have a foreman implant.

i simply don't think a capital mining ship is needed, or would add anything to the game, other than a crash in high end mineral prices [assuming it's subject to the same restrictions as the rorqual in terms of stargates etc].
Fanatic Row
Neo T.E.C.H.
#44 - 2013-01-11 12:55:18 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
*shrug* to be fair, people mine for isk, or so they can be afk (so you still want good isk/hour, really).
Individuals in hi-sec do this.

OGB changes wont do anything for 0.0 conflicts. In its current form industry in 0.0 rarely goes above the individual level, and even corp level is too small to drive conflict on a steady basis.

0.0 industry needs to move from singleplayer moon-goo activities to something that can create content on alliance level ( besides timers on towers belonging to huge coalitions).

Catching a few mining barges isn't alliance level content, and doesn't really happen because 0.0 industry boils down to producing caps with imported minerals, which equates to the conflict around these activities being structure shoots.

Now an alliance level, ISK-generating activity, that roaming sized fleets can attack and defend is what more and more 0.0 inhabitans are asking for. It can't just be more boring structures and timers tho. Cap-sized industrials however fit the bill, but are currently singleplayer activities found in POS shields and on jump bridges. Generating content for the few, not the masses, and with no incentive for alliances to support.

This has nothing to do with semi-afk miners in hi-sec, and even if a revamp did affect low-end prices? *shrug* They are way too valuable at the moment anyway, compared to what CCP intended when they distributed them across EVE.
Dave stark
#45 - 2013-01-11 13:02:18 UTC
Fanatic Row wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
*shrug* to be fair, people mine for isk, or so they can be afk (so you still want good isk/hour, really).
Individuals in hi-sec do this.

OGB changes wont do anything for 0.0 conflicts. In its current form industry in 0.0 rarely goes above the individual level, and even corp level is too small to drive conflict on a steady basis.

0.0 industry needs to move from singleplayer moon-goo activities to something that can create content on alliance level ( besides timers on towers belonging to huge coalitions).

Catching a few mining barges isn't alliance level content, and doesn't really happen because 0.0 industry boils down to producing caps with imported minerals, which equates to the conflict around these activities being structure shoots.

Now an alliance level, ISK-generating activity, that roaming sized fleets can attack and defend is what more and more 0.0 inhabitans are asking for. It can't just be more boring structures and timers tho. Cap-sized industrials however fit the bill, but are currently singleplayer activities found in POS shields and on jump bridges. Generating content for the few, not the masses, and with no incentive for alliances to support.

This has nothing to do with semi-afk miners in hi-sec, and even if a revamp did affect low-end prices? *shrug* They are way too valuable at the moment anyway, compared to what CCP intended when they distributed them across EVE.


and a capital mining ship won't do anything for 0.0 conflicts either.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#46 - 2013-01-11 13:20:32 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Fanatic Row wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
*shrug* to be fair, people mine for isk, or so they can be afk (so you still want good isk/hour, really).
Individuals in hi-sec do this.

OGB changes wont do anything for 0.0 conflicts. In its current form industry in 0.0 rarely goes above the individual level, and even corp level is too small to drive conflict on a steady basis.

0.0 industry needs to move from singleplayer moon-goo activities to something that can create content on alliance level ( besides timers on towers belonging to huge coalitions).

Catching a few mining barges isn't alliance level content, and doesn't really happen because 0.0 industry boils down to producing caps with imported minerals, which equates to the conflict around these activities being structure shoots.

Now an alliance level, ISK-generating activity, that roaming sized fleets can attack and defend is what more and more 0.0 inhabitans are asking for. It can't just be more boring structures and timers tho. Cap-sized industrials however fit the bill, but are currently singleplayer activities found in POS shields and on jump bridges. Generating content for the few, not the masses, and with no incentive for alliances to support.

This has nothing to do with semi-afk miners in hi-sec, and even if a revamp did affect low-end prices? *shrug* They are way too valuable at the moment anyway, compared to what CCP intended when they distributed them across EVE.


and a capital mining ship won't do anything for 0.0 conflicts either.

Could make some fun km.
Fanatic Row
Neo T.E.C.H.
#47 - 2013-01-11 13:22:08 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
and a capital mining ship won't do anything for 0.0 conflicts either.
If you just drop it in tomorrow, while nothing else changes, no.
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#48 - 2013-01-11 13:24:07 UTC
When you ask for the ability to mine more minerals, you ask for minerals to be devalued.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#49 - 2013-01-11 13:28:18 UTC
... and the wailing in torment would begin anew from Null... since there would never be roids big enough to make a "capital barge" worthwhile... you'd have to mine planets directly... maybe vapourize a few of those tiresome little Dust bunnies along the way for good measure...

Get out and use a Venture... I hear they are all the rage for short-cycling miners in Empire... and they don't make half-bad tacklers, either. See? Everybody "wins". Roll

/sarcasm

Blink


"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Zol Interbottom
Blimp Requisition Services
#50 - 2013-01-11 13:28:42 UTC
Idea

it would have huge structure, low shields because lol refining, low armor because lol cargo space.

It would just fly around, literally eating asteroids whole, when this majestic beast has had it's fill of stationary space rocks it would shut down its power, it's shields, it's jump drive, it's warp core and just start vomiting processed ore, leaving it vulnerable but processing huge amounts of ore with ridiculous efficiency, it wouldn't be able to jump with any asteroids in its hold and wouldn't be able to have any transferred to it or taken out unrefined, it could only trash them to ensure that it doesn't fly around as a botters dream

No highsec

"If you're quitting for the 3rd time you clearly ain't quitting" - Chribba
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#51 - 2013-01-11 13:49:34 UTC
"+1" thread and answers like there is no tomorrow. Because EVE simply need more content - capital mining barges included.

P.S. Mini-carriers for hi-sec: 10 drones (no fighters) + Orca-sized corp hangar, please.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#52 - 2013-01-11 15:51:12 UTC
Felicity Love wrote:
... and the wailing in torment would begin anew from Null... since there would never be roids big enough to make a "capital barge" worthwhile...


Sounds like you've never mined the Spud. Or been in an Industry upgrade hidden belt at all.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
TheLegion
Black Hole Drifters
Drifters.
#53 - 2013-01-11 17:04:42 UTC
Chribba wrote:
I WILL NEVER LOSE HOPE!


that made me lol. I hear ya chribba :)
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#54 - 2013-01-11 17:19:51 UTC
Capital ships can't go into highsec so nobody would use it.
TheLegion
Black Hole Drifters
Drifters.
#55 - 2013-01-11 18:09:23 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Felicity Love wrote:
... and the wailing in torment would begin anew from Null... since there would never be roids big enough to make a "capital barge" worthwhile...


Sounds like you've never mined the Spud. Or been in an Industry upgrade hidden belt at all.


spudzilla will finally be destroyed!!! rawrrrrrrrr
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#56 - 2013-01-11 18:45:27 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Felicity Love wrote:
... and the wailing in torment would begin anew from Null... since there would never be roids big enough to make a "capital barge" worthwhile...


Sounds like you've never mined the Spud. Or been in an Industry upgrade hidden belt at all.

go go Spodzilla!

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Mukuro Gravedigger
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2013-01-11 20:00:15 UTC
Depending on how serious this discussion is suppose to be...

- Have this ship travel around using a combination of the four isotopes in equal parts and / or have it crawl and warp at a speed that would make a freighter look speedy.

- Besides a rack of strip miners of whatever size would be determined (capital or regular), perhaps a smaller rack for gun placement that can not fit anything but offensive weaponry. Perhaps have penalties within the ship so these weapons are not as deadly as battleship (or greater) offense, but a means of defense besides your buddies.

- Have the strip miners work with an extended range, but a depreciating return the further they are used. Perhaps any asteroid closer than 10,000 km from the ship would be instantly destroyed (and possibly damaging the ship) if impacted with this ship's strip miners. Thus a use of mining drones, but not exactly with rocks on top of your ship to decrease their travel times.

- Perhaps allow it to have the rock compression aspect of the Rorqual, but it takes twice as long while penalizing the output from the strip miners (and offensive weaponry).
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#58 - 2013-01-11 20:33:22 UTC
TheLegion wrote:
but are you an industrialist in nullsec?


I was once. And I mined a lot of minerals just with the exhumer alone. And I have been following up on the changes to mining ships and null-sec this whole time so I understand what is going on. Just because I no longer dwell in null-sec doesn't mean I don't keep tabs on what's happening there.

Anyways, if a solo miner in null-sec could make a lot of ISK with just an exhumer alone with modulated strip miners, I can imagine the value of veldspar and other minerals dropping real fast if you introduce capital mining lasers. The need for exhumers would drop real quick just like the value of minerals.

Supply and Demand. That is all.

Adapt or Die
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2013-01-11 20:44:53 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
so long as it can cloak, align in under 5 secs, and fits inside a small POS people will use it, otherwise no one ever will.


joking aside, i like the idea of a heavy duty mining platform that can only fly in null. one of the problems of null/low extraction is that yields are as crap as they are in high, the only advantage is having a roq giving bonuses. yet, i think the real reason mining sucks in null is because of refining yields, and the low yield of low ends, and outposts that suck for pretty much everything but spinning your ship.


i can live with the low yields, since we can hit that spodumain rock forever and it wont die. but whats the point of getting mins if anything smaller than a super is better manufactured in high sec?



the issue is mostly centred on the lo-ends actually. the ammounts needed to keep a fairly sized capital fleet operational is simply mind bogging. granted you get quite the yeld on lo-ends if you strip an entire belt dry, but when you start producing components, those are the the ones that start to bottleneck the entire thing.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#60 - 2013-01-11 20:49:51 UTC
Hmm capital sized fleets of mining bots.... because this will never be a thing right?

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?