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CCP a response to how you think the drone change has gone down?

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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#81 - 2013-01-11 14:27:21 UTC
warps in, drops sentries, kill dmg-dealers,-frigs?-no fucks are given
proceed with Battlecruisers
scoop sentries
Turrets/small drones (hell even medium work) for cruiser - frigs?-no fucks are given
last to attack are the frigs.
I tried it with an ishtar. no probs

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#82 - 2013-01-11 14:50:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
TriadSte wrote:
The Dominix Ishtar and Ishkur are now useless for PVE.


Your an idiot.

All drones boats got a massive buff when the drone damage aug mod got boosted. The Rattlesnake is now almost definitely the MOST effective ship you could possibly run level 4s with.

If your going to afk and lose your drones, then you deserve to be crap at PvE.

Sorry for the blunt response, but this has been talked over many many times since Retribution. You have a search function for a reason, use it.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
MainDrain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2013-01-11 14:53:38 UTC
CCP have posted a response to this discussion in another thread today. Go check it out
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#84 - 2013-01-11 14:54:26 UTC
MainDrain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2013-01-11 14:55:15 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Oink!



Creeping!!
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#86 - 2013-01-11 15:05:06 UTC
MainDrain wrote:
CCP have posted a response to this discussion in another thread today. Go check it out


They still don't even acknowledge that drone problem exists. Like I said, all T2 drones having the same T1 resist profile, Sentries not affected by racial drone specializations, crappy drone AI (they still split damage with focus fire enabled, a bug 9 years old and counting, still no fix of even acknowledgment that it is an issue), crappy drone UI (never seen anyone even remotely sane claim drone UI is good or even decent), still no compensation for lack of features (like overheating to boost drone effectiveness), few drone rigs and zero drone implants, etc., etc.

Most of these are half a decade old or older. Nothing's been done.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#87 - 2013-01-11 15:08:56 UTC
Jame read a few posts up, they have the drone UI on list

.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#88 - 2013-01-11 15:09:11 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
They still don't even acknowledge that drone problem exists. Like I said, all T2 drones having the same T1 resist profile, Sentries not affected by racial drone specializations, crappy drone AI (they still split damage with focus fire enabled, a bug 9 years old and counting, still no fix of even acknowledgment that it is an issue), crappy drone UI (never seen anyone even remotely sane claim drone UI is good or even decent), still no compensation for lack of features (like overheating to boost drone effectiveness), few drone rigs and zero drone implants, etc., etc.

Most of these are half a decade old or older. Nothing's been done.
…quite possible because some of them aren't problems to begin with, most notably the resist profiles or the sentry bonuses. The UI has been acknowledged, as has the AI, but they're tricky things to fix.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#89 - 2013-01-11 16:11:49 UTC
When I mission I usually do L4 missions in a Domi with sentries.

I have lost a grand total of *one* sentry drone to rats (because I stupidly moved away from them so couldn't retrieve when I needed to).

Yes, I do need to pull them in a bit more often than I needed to before the AI change, but with the actual drone change I'm doing so much more DPS with them that it is totally worth the (minimal) extra effort.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#90 - 2013-01-11 16:32:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jame Jarl Retief
Tippia wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
They still don't even acknowledge that drone problem exists. Like I said, all T2 drones having the same T1 resist profile, Sentries not affected by racial drone specializations, crappy drone AI (they still split damage with focus fire enabled, a bug 9 years old and counting, still no fix of even acknowledgment that it is an issue), crappy drone UI (never seen anyone even remotely sane claim drone UI is good or even decent), still no compensation for lack of features (like overheating to boost drone effectiveness), few drone rigs and zero drone implants, etc., etc.

Most of these are half a decade old or older. Nothing's been done.
…quite possible because some of them aren't problems to begin with, most notably the resist profiles or the sentry bonuses. The UI has been acknowledged, as has the AI, but they're tricky things to fix.


Well, let's be reasonable. What T2 ships share the identical resist to their T1 variants? So why should drones? Considering the discrepancy in cost of T1 and T2 drones, one would expect more bang from the T2 variants. Similarly, when faction drones cost what they do (5+ mil each, so a full T1 Tristan with faction drones would cost 40-45 mil in drones alone), you'd expect more out of them.

T2 sentries being unaffected by racial specialization? Again, what sense does that make? As far as I know, all turrets, missiles and drones (except Sentries) at T2 level ARE affected by their respective racial specialization. Why not Sentries? Seems like an oversight rather than intent, considering there's 4 racial variants of Sentry drones. Remember they're splitting Destroyers and BCs into four racial groups because the old system "doesn't make logical sense", but the Sentries are intended? Hard to believe.

And you really can't argue the other stuff, such as lack of damage rigs (for non-sentries), complete and total lack of drone implants, etc., when other weapon systems have theirs. No compensation for lack of overheating mechanic. The -1 slot on all drone boats because of "flexibility and damage projection" despite the fact that most Gallente drone boats don't even have room for 2 full flights (meaning no flexibility), and with NPC aggro now being what it is, damage projection is questionable at best. Etc., etc.

UI and AI have been a problem for approximately 5 years now. At last FanFest they showed a mock-up of the new drone UI, but since then it's been pretty quiet. So, how much longer do drone users have to wait? Another year? Two? Five? I mean, you'd think before adding more drone boats to the game (3 last patch, 1 next patch) they would actually fix the drones they rely on first. Makes certain twisted kind of sense, doesn't it? I mean, do you build a house on a rotten foundation?

I don't know, but as years go by I find it harder and harder to just shrug this stuff off as "normal".
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#91 - 2013-01-11 18:51:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Well, let's be reasonable. What T2 ships share the identical resist to their T1 variants? So why should drones?
Because they're not ships. Because they are already 20% more sturdy than the T1 as part of their overall “20% better in every way” profile.

Quote:
T2 sentries being unaffected by racial specialization? Again, what sense does that make?
What does sense have to do with it? They do inherently better damage so they don't need the bonus. It's called balance it and it trumps irrelevant “sense” every day of the week.

Quote:
As far as I know, all turrets, missiles and drones (except Sentries and Fighters/FBs and ewar and logi drones) at T2 level ARE affected by their respective racial specialization.
There you go. No, it's rather T2 combat drones that are the oddities by having racial skills — there rest just have equipment specialisation skills, and sentries don't particularly need it anyway since it's rolled into the whole “20% better in every way” profile.

Quote:
UI and AI have been a problem for approximately 5 years now. At last FanFest they showed a mock-up of the new drone UI, but since then it's been pretty quiet.
…making it a pretty silly thing to say that it hasn't been acknowledged as an issue, when it has been for a long while now.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#92 - 2013-01-11 19:15:51 UTC
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:
So all those weeks training drone skills as a speciality boil down to:

Yim Sei wrote:
1. Recall drones and just use to get rid of scram frigs etc.

2. Use Turrets more - concentrated on range and tracking.


Awesome!

And I still find elite frigs instapopping my hobgob2s regularly in L3s


When I had weeks of drone training, my drones sucked also.

Now that I have months of drone training, they no longer get popped at all.

Do you need me to get Willy Wonka to ask you a 'Please explain" meme or do you got this?

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2013-01-11 21:47:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
T2 sentries being unaffected by racial specialization? Again, what sense does that make?
What does sense have to do with it? They do inherently better damage so they don't need the bonus. It's called balance it and it trumps irrelevant “sense” every day of the week.

An argument of raw damage advantage for sentries would make more sense if they weren't eclipsed by T2 large drones as soon as you can use them (the base difference is only ~4% and spec 4 gives +8%).

Tippia wrote:
...sentries don't particularly need it anyway since it's rolled into the whole “20% better in every way” profile.

This seems to be common across drone types so I'm not sure how it counts as an argument for the spec skills not applying.

Those facts aside the drone specs actually do work like the turret specs in that they only bonus the drones that actually need the skill, where T2 sentries do not.
Diabhal Dunmharu
Doomheim
#94 - 2013-01-12 02:19:46 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
This thread again?

Seriously, this is just getting old. Quit EVE. If you're too useless to use the search function or read the forums before posting the same thing already being discussed, then it's no wonder you fail at drones.


Dear Remiel, you seem distraught, step outside, take some deep breaths of fresh air, then come back and post.

If CCP acknowledged that the new drone AI affects drone boats disproportinately, and made a simple clear statement that the issue is been looked at, then most folk would happily await the outcome.

Then I could pay Eve agian in my poor neglected Navy Dominix.



Me? Distraught? My drones are working just fine. I'm not the one posting endless whine threads about how there's something (apparently) wrong with drones now. Also, CCP have addressed the issue. Did you miss it?

Also, as stated earlier, that was posted weeks ago. I've already had my outside time for the month.


You seem like a total spaz actually.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#95 - 2013-01-12 02:50:28 UTC
As a former wormhole resident, I can't help but chuckle at the whining about the new sleeper-like AI.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#96 - 2013-01-12 03:04:20 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Do you need me to get Willy Wonka to ask you a 'Please explain" meme or do you got this?

Do it.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#97 - 2013-01-12 03:22:26 UTC
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/33237424.jpg

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2013-01-12 03:32:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Diabhal Dunmharu wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
This thread again?

Seriously, this is just getting old. Quit EVE. If you're too useless to use the search function or read the forums before posting the same thing already being discussed, then it's no wonder you fail at drones.


Dear Remiel, you seem distraught, step outside, take some deep breaths of fresh air, then come back and post.

If CCP acknowledged that the new drone AI affects drone boats disproportinately, and made a simple clear statement that the issue is been looked at, then most folk would happily await the outcome.

Then I could pay Eve agian in my poor neglected Navy Dominix.



Me? Distraught? My drones are working just fine. I'm not the one posting endless whine threads about how there's something (apparently) wrong with drones now. Also, CCP have addressed the issue. Did you miss it?

Also, as stated earlier, that was posted weeks ago. I've already had my outside time for the month.


You seem like a total spaz actually.


EDIT: Actually, I'll remember that one the next time someone sucks at drones and complains about it on the forums. Cheers.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Red Maiden
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2013-01-12 04:55:53 UTC
I love the drone changes. Makes PVE even more engaging. If you keep losing drones and find it too difficult, then you're doing it wrong.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#100 - 2013-01-12 05:12:18 UTC
Diabhal Dunmharu wrote:
Flakey Foont wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
Drones for PVP is a moot point, but PVE is a different ball game.

The Dominix Ishtar and Ishkur are now useless for PVE. These are dedicated drone boats being placed on the top shelf left to rot.

Doesn't it seem a little stupid to force some of the best boats....to rot?

Its kinda like taking away the rep power bonus from the Archon. What use does it have over any other carrier?

I think the Drone AI needed a push up the backside but i think perhaps CCP have done the usual and perhaps over compensated as normal.

On dedicated drone boats I think they should now give a new bonus of drone hitpoints per level for sentries/combats as well as MWD speed bonus for combat drones [non fighter]







This is completely untrue. I fly drone boats and it works fine in PVE. A little harder yes. If you think they are useless you didn't know how to fly 'em in the first place. This argument is stale and is simply whining. Can you AFK anymore? No.

Plus, why did you feel the need to start yet another thread on this? Are you a special snowflake?


Trollolo. It isn't rocket science to attack a ship with drones ******. You can stare at the screen, attack NPC with same size drones and kill elite NPC first and you will still end up recalling drones 10 times on some missions. This makes for the slowest mission running in the game. That is a fact and nothing can change this truth. I've done everything from ecm to target painters+remotre rep on sentry drones. The people who are most affected by this are those who like to use heavy, medium, and light drones instead of sentries.

Maybe CCP should rethink the whole race weapon systems thing?