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Death of a capsuleer.

First post
Author
kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-01-11 01:53:46 UTC
The way I see it, untill dust all capsuleers could easily die and loose time. The pod was the gate to immortality, whenever they were notin the pod their neural pathways could not be scanned and as such, if they were to die outside the pod they would die , or atleast that instance of them would be permanently dead. (Assuming a copy was stored from the last time they were scanned)
My question is, what is CCPs stance on capsuleers dying our of pod, or for example going missing, if they would go missiing they could hardly activate a new clone and risk 2 copies of the same man running about ?
Etherealclams
#2 - 2013-01-11 03:05:58 UTC
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
The way I see it, untill dust all capsuleers could easily die and loose time. The pod was the gate to immortality, whenever they were notin the pod their neural pathways could not be scanned and as such, if they were to die outside the pod they would die , or atleast that instance of them would be permanently dead. (Assuming a copy was stored from the last time they were scanned)
My question is, what is CCPs stance on capsuleers dying our of pod, or for example going missing, if they would go missiing they could hardly activate a new clone and risk 2 copies of the same man running about ?


Capsulers do not go down to the planet. The infantry are just soldiers. Also alot of what you said was incorrect regarding pods, but I'm too lazy to explain..

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Saul Elsyn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-01-11 04:13:01 UTC
I think there's some confusion in the lore even... as Empyrean Age suggests that the death of a capsuleer can only be accomplished by killing all their clones within moments of each other. It really seems as though it doesn't matter whether we're in the Pod or not.

At the same time some of the chronicles suggested that consciousness transference was only possible from within a Pod, which made getting out a highly risky activity. I think that the truth lies somewhere in between... like the early capsuleers couldn't go out and wander around without risking perma-death, but at the very least that problem would have been nullified with improvements in technology similar to that found within the dust troops.

I was writing awhile back, where there was a situation where two capsuleers were caught in a firefight outside their ships, and one of the normals around them asked. "Wait... if you die here, does that mean you die forever?"

The capsuleer stopped, scowled for a moment then answered. "You know... I'm not sure."
Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-01-11 06:27:51 UTC
The capsule is a way to instantly scan the infomorph, but the process kills the meat to do so. However much slower processes can be done to scan the infomorph periodically which do not damage the brain in anyway. Such a thing may be considered routine. So on death outside a pod (accident, assassination, etc) a stable infomorph could be uploaded to a clone. Although every bit of learned information between time of the last brain scan and death would be lost forever.

The dust implants are unique and so special because it functions exactly like a pod... without the pod. It is entirely and completely separate system and unable to work with capsuleer implants. A capsuleer cannot under any circumstances also have dust implants. In addition the technology that makes both Dust implants and capsuleer implants are not very well understood by anyone but the Jove and Sleepers, so it is very unlikely any new technology blending the two together would be discovered for a very long while.
kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-01-11 14:38:49 UTC
Etherealclams wrote:


Capsulers do not go down to the planet. The infantry are just soldiers. Also alot of what you said was incorrect regarding pods, but I'm too lazy to explain..


I know capsuleers usually do not go down to planets, they do unplug however. Whenever they unplug they are vunerable, as in not in reach of their pod. Please do tell me where I am wrong though since I am interested in using this subject in a story.

I know dust implants have been a game changer but i'd not everyone will have access to it yet, serpentis etc have been busy/ have acquired it though.
CCP Falcon
#6 - 2013-01-11 14:51:07 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Falcon
So, Capsuleers aren't as immortal as their ego likes to make them think.

Their immortality is based around the capsule's hardware, combined with the technology of cloning.

Basically, if they're in flight and a breach is detected in the capsule's hull, in a split second, several things happen.

Firstly, the neural scanning hardware is activated. This takes a digital imprint of the entire brain, noting the state of every neuron. This effectively creates a digital copy of the brain, which is burst transmitted back to the capsuleer's selected cloning facility.

This causes massive tissue damage, and pretty much destroys the brain, so once this process is compete, a neurotoxin is injected directly into the brain to euthanize the capsuleer, killing them.

Once the cloning facility receives the burst transmission from the capsule, the data is downloaded directly into the waiting brain of the fresh clone, and the clone awakes with memory up to the point of death.


Before the capsule and the clone were brought together, there were still capsuleers. Some saw action as far back as the end of the first Caldari-Gallente war. These capsuleers however were a one shot deal. The only benefit they had was the near zero reaction time of neural control over their ship, and if they were podded, they died just like any other pilot.

When a capsuleer unplugs, they're basically as much of a bag of meat as any other citizen of New Eden. Some do employ the use of "soft clones" as backups in case they're killed out of pod, but again, there's loss of memory involved that runs back to their last neural backup.

They're branded as immortals because technically, thanks to technology, they are. Stuff can still go wrong though, and it's still VERY possible to kill a Capsuleer with the right resources and dedication.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

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kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-01-11 14:55:28 UTC
Sweet, thats just what I was hoping for. Given me a great idea for a story.
Stormforges
A Syndicate of Unfortunate Events
#8 - 2013-01-11 19:05:55 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
So, Capsuleers aren't as immortal as their ego likes to make them think.

Their immortality is based around the capsule's hardware, combined with the technology of cloning.

Basically, if they're in flight and a breach is detected in the capsule's hull, in a split second, several things happen.

Firstly, the neural scanning hardware is activated. This takes a digital imprint of the entire brain, noting the state of every neuron. This effectively creates a digital copy of the brain, which is burst transmitted back to the capsuleer's selected cloning facility.

This causes massive tissue damage, and pretty much destroys the brain, so once this process is compete, a neurotoxin is injected directly into the brain to euthanize the capsuleer, killing them.

Once the cloning facility receives the burst transmission from the capsule, the data is downloaded directly into the waiting brain of the fresh clone, and the clone awakes with memory up to the point of death.


Before the capsule and the clone were brought together, there were still capsuleers. Some saw action as far back as the end of the first Caldari-Gallente war. These capsuleers however were a one shot deal. The only benefit they had was the near zero reaction time of neural control over their ship, and if they were podded, they died just like any other pilot.

When a capsuleer unplugs, they're basically as much of a bag of meat as any other citizen of New Eden. Some do employ the use of "soft clones" as backups in case they're killed out of pod, but again, there's loss of memory involved that runs back to their last neural backup.

They're branded as immortals because technically, thanks to technology, they are. Stuff can still go wrong though, and it's still VERY possible to kill a Capsuleer with the right resources and dedication.



If I remember correctly it is the neurotoxin that enables the scan to be completed quickly by freezing the brain for an instant allowing the scan be completed on a stopped brain making the scan faster. Correct me if I got the lore wrong.

Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-01-12 13:36:05 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:

When a capsuleer unplugs, they're basically as much of a bag of meat as any other citizen of New Eden. Some do employ the use of "soft clones" as backups in case they're killed out of pod, but again, there's loss of memory involved that runs back to their last neural backup.


Attached to life as we all humans are, and paranoid as we all capsuleers are, I highly doubt that given the chance, any capsuleer would not make use of the soft cloning tech, at least once a year.
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-01-12 14:51:16 UTC
As far as cloning, forking, data-brain dumping and such goes, I recommend the read of the Eclipse Phase tabletop RPG core book. It delves pretty deeply into this side of technology, and most of what it sais could very well be applied in EvE Online.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#11 - 2013-01-13 13:57:43 UTC

I think what the OP is asking is...

Does the DUST Cloning technology allow for transfer of the brain without the need for a capsule. And if this is true, does this technology apply to Capsuleers now?

Where I am.

Tykari
The Observatory
#12 - 2013-01-13 14:22:43 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:

I think what the OP is asking is...

Does the DUST Cloning technology allow for transfer of the brain without the need for a capsule. And if this is true, does this technology apply to Capsuleers now?



DUST can transfer without a pod, however those implants are incompatible with Capsuleers implants so they are still very much bound to their pods.

In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness.

San Fransisco
Silver Falcon Survey
#13 - 2013-01-14 21:08:13 UTC
So I think there is another very simple answer to this situation that could be implemented.

The pod transmits the data to the clone using FTL communication. However the Merc implant only transmits data at LS.

This way, when we EVE players finally get interactive station environments, we will be able to kill each other. Death outside the pod uses the DUST implant while pod destruction uses the "old" method.
Zol Interbottom
Blimp Requisition Services
#14 - 2013-01-15 09:47:14 UTC
the chronicles detailing capsualeers on station usually have them guarded by armed escorts and when something happens to them **** usually goes down the story

that being said, a soft backup wouldnt be a copy of the current consciousness, meaning the capsualeer would technically die, leading to some crazy debate about life and cloning

"If you're quitting for the 3rd time you clearly ain't quitting" - Chribba

Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-01-16 20:35:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Telegram Sam
At the end of the chronicle Jita 4-4 there's a little essay about capsuleers being mortal outside of their pods. Or more precisely, it's about how immortality relies on the controlled conditions of the pod and the clone facility. And also about how the capsuleer depends on medical people to both revive the clone and to give it a proper transneural transfer....
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#16 - 2013-01-16 21:23:46 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:

When a capsuleer unplugs, they're basically as much of a bag of meat as any other citizen of New Eden. Some do employ the use of "soft clones" as backups in case they're killed out of pod, but again, there's loss of memory involved that runs back to their last neural backup.


Attached to life as we all humans are, and paranoid as we all capsuleers are, I highly doubt that given the chance, any capsuleer would not make use of the soft cloning tech, at least once a year.

Once a year?
Assuming the capsule can perform a memory slow scan and upload that to the database, I would think it would be something that is regularly scheduled, and any smart capsuleer would start it whenever they anticipate a need to get out.

If it has to be done in a facility, it's still likely it would be done monthly or bimonthly.

Remember, smart capsuleers are paranoid.
Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2013-01-16 23:33:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Qvar Dar'Zanar
It was a conservative opinion since CCP Falcon seems to think that most of the people doesnt soft clone themselves.
In the end, how often it's done will be related directly to how long does the process take. According to what has been told about the process, my guesstimate is between 4 and 12 hours.

San Fransisco wrote:
So I think there is another very simple answer to this situation that could be implemented.

The pod transmits the data to the clone using FTL communication. However the Merc implant only transmits data at LS.

This way, when we EVE players finally get interactive station environments, we will be able to kill each other. Death outside the pod uses the DUST implant while pod destruction uses the "old" method.


Like has been said before, also by CCP themselves, we aren't and will never be able to use dust implants, they are incompatible with ours (not surprising since apparently the implants makes a new lobule to grow inside your head. That probably doesnt give much space for our wiring stuff).
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#18 - 2013-01-19 09:21:12 UTC
Soft clones, and memory back to the previous clones.... this is my hope for fighting in stations and buying guns with Aurum.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Da Dom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-01-23 07:07:18 UTC
You honestly believe that a dead Dust clone can't be harvested for it's implant?

Because Far-que... That's why.

kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-01-24 00:32:59 UTC
Seeing the answers in this thread and the recently started thread regarding the 'offical' fiction, I have decided I am going to write a short regarding the subject using a 'softclone' andmake it something rare even for capsuleers. I will consider it a deviation from the lore however and note it as such.

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