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Blasters or Autocannons for PVP.
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Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#21 - 2013-01-04 18:20:33 UTC
Idicious Lightbane wrote:
I think you're the person who doesn't understand what falloff range that long entails. Say your Sleip does 800 DPS in optimal (you almost never fight at optimal but that's your base DPS to calculate from) that means that at optimal +1x falloff which is somewhere in the 40's you are still dealing 400 DPS, and that increases as you close range. The only other medium sized ships that gain that DPS at that range with short range weapons is a shield tanked pulse zealot.

Similarly a gank fit Mach will still be doing 600 DPS at 80km using autocannons, with over 1000 at closer ranges. You should plot a DPS graph on those ships for DPS at range, it's impressive.


First: Mad props for knowing how to use your and you're correctly.

On with the rest...

I'm well aware how falloff works. Show your fits please, the numbers you're giving are impossible as far as both EFT and Pyfa tell me. Is this a case of officer mods being used to prove a point?
Idicious Lightbane
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-01-04 20:43:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Idicious Lightbane
Paikis wrote:
Idicious Lightbane wrote:
I think you're the person who doesn't understand what falloff range that long entails. Say your Sleip does 800 DPS in optimal (you almost never fight at optimal but that's your base DPS to calculate from) that means that at optimal +1x falloff which is somewhere in the 40's you are still dealing 400 DPS, and that increases as you close range. The only other medium sized ships that gain that DPS at that range with short range weapons is a shield tanked pulse zealot.

Similarly a gank fit Mach will still be doing 600 DPS at 80km using autocannons, with over 1000 at closer ranges. You should plot a DPS graph on those ships for DPS at range, it's impressive.


First: Mad props for knowing how to use your and you're correctly.

On with the rest...

I'm well aware how falloff works. Show your fits please, the numbers you're giving are impossible as far as both EFT and Pyfa tell me. Is this a case of officer mods being used to prove a point?



Alright I checked it out in pyfa, I was a bit optimistic I'll admit on the sleipnir stats. For the sleip it requires 3 t2 tracking enhancers, 2 t2 gyro's and a 5% rof implant overheated barrage to get those numbers. Considering that leaves no more low slots it's a bit impractical, but it does give 800 DPS close range ammo at 0 and 400 DPS at 40km with barrage.

The machariel I used the stats off of a pve mach I used, how-ever a pvp mach gets very similar numbers, plug this into EFT:

[Machariel, Solo]

Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Republic Fleet 100MN Microwarpdrive
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
Imperial Navy Heavy Energy Neutralizer

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Large Projectile Ambit Extension II


Valkyrie II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Warrior II x5


Inherent Implants 'Lancer' Gunnery RF-905
Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Large Projectile Turret LP-1005

It's pretty normal for a mach cost wise, some people pimp it up a lot more, you can drop a gyro for a DC if you like lowering the DPS at bit. With this barrage hits for 550 turret DPS at 80km not overheating, these implants aren't an issue and you'll most likely have them if you're flying this in pvp, along with LG Crystals.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#23 - 2013-01-06 15:43:49 UTC
TL;DR

Hybrids require cap, projectiles do not. So when you are flying that blaster boat and get neuted out, you won't be shooting anymore.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#24 - 2013-01-07 13:35:57 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
TL;DR

Hybrids require cap, projectiles do not. So when you are flying that blaster boat and get neuted out, you won't be shooting anymore.


That's what cap injectors are for. Minmatar are not immune to neuts either. Neuting will turn off a lot of things that aren't guns. Also, minmatar ships are much easier to neut dry due to their woeful capacitor.
LordSpock
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-01-07 13:59:52 UTC
Eternal Error wrote:
Both are solid weapon systems. Later in your career (15-20m+ sp) you will want to start crosstraining multiple races.

I would start with autocannons. It will serve you better in PvE as you get started and projectiles in general are great. It's called winmatar for a reason.



Eternal Error wrote:
Paikis wrote:
Eternal Error wrote:
It's called winmatar for a reason.


Because most people don't understand falloff mechanics? Because people have it stuck in their head that the Machariel is a minmatar ship (it is in fact a pirate ship combining two races)? Because the number in EFT looks bigger? Because the guns use no capacitor, but there isn't any on those ships anyways?

Seriously, Minmatar is a good race, but it is no better than any other race, its strong point just happens to be popular at the moment.

How many people use blasters or rails on unbonused ships?

I could point out more problems with this post and your other one in this thread but cba. Obviously "winmatar" is a joke and in the end you want all races trained, but projectiles are a very solid first weapon system.


Funny, I'm looking at almost 50mil SP and still am quiet sure I'm never going to crosstrain. (I don't count ORE with that because at one point I might go fly a mining ship).

To OP, it is all very situational. But if you ask me: If you got balls and want to go all the way, fight like a pitbull to the bitter end, go Gallente/Caldari and fly blasterboat. If you want to have more of a gtfo-button and kite your enemies/dictate rangfe, go for AC's and fight deep in falloff.
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2013-01-10 14:17:47 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Eternal Error wrote:
It's called winmatar for a reason.


Because most people don't understand falloff mechanics? Because people have it stuck in their head that the Machariel is a minmatar ship (it is in fact a pirate ship combining two races)? Because the number in EFT looks bigger? Because the guns use no capacitor, but there isn't any on those ships anyways?

Seriously, Minmatar is a good race, but it is no better than any other race, its strong point just happens to be popular at the moment.

If by "at the moment" you mean for the last 7 years, sure!
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#27 - 2013-01-10 19:43:43 UTC
Voith wrote:
Paikis wrote:
Eternal Error wrote:
It's called winmatar for a reason.


Because most people don't understand falloff mechanics? Because people have it stuck in their head that the Machariel is a minmatar ship (it is in fact a pirate ship combining two races)? Because the number in EFT looks bigger? Because the guns use no capacitor, but there isn't any on those ships anyways?

Seriously, Minmatar is a good race, but it is no better than any other race, its strong point just happens to be popular at the moment.

If by "at the moment" you mean for the last 7 years, sure!


If by 7 years, you mean at most 2 years, then sure! When I started playing EVE (2009) it was very much a case of "LOL shields? GTFO!" If you didn't armour tank, you didn't get into fleets. It was armour and lasers online.
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