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Allow injecting skills and putting them on the queue without prerequisites met
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Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-12-19 18:54:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Crimeo Khamsi
pretty self explanatory. Being in a queue means that you intend to train it in the FUTURE. Thus, you shouldn't need prerequisites to line it up in the queue. You should only need them met prior to actually accumulating SP in the skill.

I don't need to hold any degrees to merely plan on studying astrophysics a year from now... But that's how the system works now. It acts as if you are incapable of conceiving of the idea of training a skill until you can actually train it.
Dave Stark
#2 - 2012-12-19 19:04:25 UTC
indeed, it's irritating that you can't add a skill to the skillqueue after the prerequisite until the prerequisite is fully trained.

for example, i want my alt to fly an orca, but the final prerequisite finishes at 3am, however i can't add the industrial command ship skill to the queue after that so i'll have to add astrogeology to the queue so my queue doesn't run out, and then train industrial command ship to the queue afterwards when really i could be already part way rank 2 or 3 of industrial command ship by the time i get to log in if i could just add it to the queue.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-12-19 19:30:26 UTC
This comes up every now and then. I'm still not sure why the queue doesn't already work this way. it's irritating.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#4 - 2012-12-19 19:52:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Darenthul
I just made this post last week.

I had to cram about 8 hours of skills into a character (at least it was something he'd finish training later) solely because of having to go to work right before it finished. Science-Astrogeology is the big one for miners since the final level of Science is such a big skill you have to plot its level precisely to follow up with Astrogeo. I'm not looking forward to my Battleships V -> Marauders.

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#5 - 2012-12-19 20:07:34 UTC
First world problems
Somatic Neuron
Masterwork Productions Inc
#6 - 2013-01-10 18:38:08 UTC
Hmm, I was going to post this too...I guess it isn't just me and everyone I know that hate that you can't do this yet...

Please CCP, add it to your quick fix list....
Eliniale
Co-operative Resource Extraction
#7 - 2013-01-10 19:28:20 UTC
It's a minor fix, and as stated a first world problem.

But it would be a welcome little thing nonetheless.

System ideas: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=191928&find=unread
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#8 - 2013-01-10 19:41:05 UTC
This is one of the frustrating leftovers the queue did not clear up when it was first put in.

If you are not online at the time you finally complete the last prerequisite of a skill, you are forced to choose training some alternate which you may care nothing about, or letting the queue completely expire.

Neither is a satisfying choice. Especially considering in many cases the prereq's for a skill feel like obstacles, regardless of whether you accept and train them. You can't even inject the desired skill till they are completed.

It is definitely a flaw.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#9 - 2013-01-10 19:46:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
The ONLY way I support this, is if you lose your POD before you begin training that skill... you LOSE that skill.....

There is Risk associated with owning a skillbook, and I think that allowing people to just inject all skills before they train the prereqs removes too much of the risk associated with "owning" a skillbook.


P.S. This has been posted several times before.... It's usually a good idea to do a forum search before posting a new topic!
Mag's
Azn Empire
#10 - 2013-01-10 23:20:55 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
The ONLY way I support this, is if you lose your POD before you begin training that skill... you LOSE that skill.....

There is Risk associated with owning a skillbook, and I think that allowing people to just inject all skills before they train the prereqs removes too much of the risk associated with "owning" a skillbook.


P.S. This has been posted several times before.... It's usually a good idea to do a forum search before posting a new topic!
I'd agree with this. Sounds like a fair trade.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-01-10 23:57:46 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
The ONLY way I support this, is if you lose your POD before you begin training that skill... you LOSE that skill.....

There is Risk associated with owning a skillbook, and I think that allowing people to just inject all skills before they train the prereqs removes too much of the risk associated with "owning" a skillbook.


P.S. This has been posted several times before.... It's usually a good idea to do a forum search before posting a new topic!

I don't understand the lore/in-character explanation for why that solution would make any sense. It feels very odd.

I have an alternative suggestion. Slightly more complicated to write out, but more intuitive:

We make it so that if you don't have the prereqs yet, you can click "Add at end of queue," and it will add the skill in question into the queue if there is space (you can also move it around to the middle if you want afterward), but it will NOT inject the skill at first. Only add it on the queue (book still exists as an item).

Then, the actual injecting would only happen if:
1) the final prerequisite is finished being trained, AND
2) the skill book is in the hold of your current ship, or in the item inventory of a station you are docked at.

If the above two constraints are not met at the moment of the last prereq finishing, then the queue continues on, and re-checks both constraints every time another skill is finished, until it gets to the skill in question. If not injected by the time it is scheduled to be run, the skill in question cancels, and you are left with the book still as an item and the skill not trained at all.



More intuitive, and also puts an even heavier burden on keeping your book safe than the quoted solution (need a hold, not just a pod, to be kept safe). It also allows you the possibility of losing your ship and recovering an expensive book from the wreckage.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#12 - 2013-01-11 00:19:48 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
The ONLY way I support this, is if you lose your POD before you begin training that skill... you LOSE that skill.....

There is Risk associated with owning a skillbook, and I think that allowing people to just inject all skills before they train the prereqs removes too much of the risk associated with "owning" a skillbook.


P.S. This has been posted several times before.... It's usually a good idea to do a forum search before posting a new topic!

I don't understand the lore/in-character explanation for why that solution would make any sense. It feels very odd.

I have an alternative suggestion. Slightly more complicated to write out, but more intuitive:

We make it so that if you don't have the prereqs yet, you can click "Add at end of queue," and it will add the skill in question into the queue if there is space (you can also move it around to the middle if you want afterward), but it will NOT inject the skill at first. Only add it on the queue (book still exists as an item).

Then, the actual injecting would only happen if:
1) the final prerequisite is finished being trained, AND
2) the skill book is in the hold of your current ship, or in the item inventory of a station you are docked at.

If the above two constraints are not met at the moment of the last prereq finishing, then the queue continues on, and re-checks both constraints every time another skill is finished, until it gets to the skill in question. If not injected by the time it is scheduled to be run, the skill in question cancels, and you are left with the book still as an item and the skill not trained at all.



More intuitive, and also puts an even heavier burden on keeping your book safe than the quoted solution (need a hold, not just a pod, to be kept safe). It also allows you the possibility of losing your ship and recovering an expensive book from the wreckage.


I actually like this a bit more.... especially if it forces you to carry the skillbook in your ship cargo hold until it is "used"....
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#13 - 2013-01-11 02:48:51 UTC
That last solution, where it plugs in the skill so long as you have immediate access to the skill book, sounds perfect.

It would be wrong to avoid risk, and it would not be satisfying to achieve something just by being handed it.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-01-11 03:21:19 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
That last solution, where it plugs in the skill so long as you have immediate access to the skill book, sounds perfect.

It would be wrong to avoid risk, and it would not be satisfying to achieve something just by being handed it.

I can get behind this.
Istvann
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-01-11 17:55:28 UTC
Liked and in agreement on this.
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-01-12 02:14:44 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:

removed to prevent clutter

More intuitive, and also puts an even heavier burden on keeping your book safe than the quoted solution (need a hold, not just a pod, to be kept safe). It also allows you the possibility of losing your ship and recovering an expensive book from the wreckage.


yes, this would be an excelent method of doing it, as you have the risk side, but it would probably be easier to program a check then to have to modify the skill system to have to check all the prerequisites every time you try to train something that you already have injected.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#17 - 2013-01-12 11:39:32 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
This is one of the frustrating leftovers the queue did not clear up when it was first put in.

If you are not online at the time you finally complete the last prerequisite of a skill, you are forced to choose training some alternate which you may care nothing about, or letting the queue completely expire.



You make it sound like this skill is the last skill you will ever train.

Seriously, "forced to train some alternate which you may care nothing about"...... Just train the next skill in your training plan and come back to the one with prerequisites next time you log in.


As for injecting untrainable skills, I would have to say NO. If this were allowed, there would be no risk in the need to transport skills you buy early.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#18 - 2013-01-12 14:31:05 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
This is one of the frustrating leftovers the queue did not clear up when it was first put in.

If you are not online at the time you finally complete the last prerequisite of a skill, you are forced to choose training some alternate which you may care nothing about, or letting the queue completely expire.



You make it sound like this skill is the last skill you will ever train.

Seriously, "forced to train some alternate which you may care nothing about"...... Just train the next skill in your training plan and come back to the one with prerequisites next time you log in.


As for injecting untrainable skills, I would have to say NO. If this were allowed, there would be no risk in the need to transport skills you buy early.

If you have specific goals, and not just a generalized direction, then you want to achieve them. Every day you need to wait, is a day you cannot play with that skill.

It can mean the difference between flying a compromised fit, to not being able to fly a desired ship at all.

If your queue ends 8 hours before you can change it, and your next play session is the only opportunity for a few days, then you are wanting that skill ASAP.
Sure, we can slot general desired skills for that few days, but the queue was also intended to not make us log in at odd hours simply to advance our training.

It fails under these circumstances.

Yes, of course I don't want to manually slot all skills like I did before, but it can be improved with this simple means, and potentially make everyone's play experience smoother.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...