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How does dust 514 benifit CCP if its F2P?
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#41 - 2013-01-10 17:36:19 UTC
What incentive does a player in Eve have to stay among other players who have a head start?

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2013-01-10 17:37:31 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
I imagine it will be about as "pay to win" as Eve is, which is not at all.

When a game relies enough on actual player skill and coordination between players, being able to buy your ingame currency is far from game-breaking and barely affects the overall game at all. It's a clever and so far successful business model for games.


fair enough. it sounded a little convoluted to me, too tbh. you're saying Dust will not be pay-to-win, but based on skill as much as EVE. looking at this claim again, I see three things wrong with that statement which implies:

Purchased items will not significantly augment the player's ability to win <- a meritocracy
Success is mostly determined by player skill <- a gerontocracy

this would alienate newcomers. and the correct answer is... although ^ is a nice thought, Dust is a more appropriate environment than EVE to throw money at success.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#43 - 2013-01-10 17:43:00 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
What incentive does a player in Eve have to stay among other players who have a head start?

You can blob !

All the skillless noobs can blob up, then magic happens Shocked

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2013-01-10 17:43:58 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
What incentive does a player in Eve have to stay among other players who have a head start?

You can blob !

All the skillless noobs can blob up, then magic happens Shocked


that too, and there is more to EVE than putting someone on the other side of a crosshair
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#45 - 2013-01-10 17:43:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Varius Xeral
Because player skill and cooperation aren't simple grind formulas like currency and items generally are.

Why compete in any game where everyone does not start perfectly equal every time? Because it can still be fun.

Now, if that inequality is simply a matter of real-life wealth, that does not generally make for a very entertaining game to play (maybe to watch though). However, in Eve, and hopefully Dust, real-life wealth really doesn't mean that much in most cases, and inequality based on player skill and inter-player coordination is far more palatable.

That said, this whole line of conversations is pointless and off-topic in my mind. Asking if a persistent skill-to-win game can work is ridiculous, as obviously it does.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#46 - 2013-01-10 17:48:32 UTC
Free to play is the future, and CCP knows this. Allowing free access and only charging people for convenience or vanity items can often make more income than a subscription model.

I guarantee CCP already have plans to make EVE itself free to play if subs drop enough.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Thomas Hurt
Future Ventures
#47 - 2013-01-10 17:48:43 UTC
Ioci wrote:
Thomas Hurt wrote:
Ioci wrote:
Facebook shares are worth billions and Facebook has never made a dime.

Get it?


Facebook makes a ton of money on ad revenue, and frequently oscillates between net profit and net loss. thats not a very good comparison


They have no profit. They are in the hole. It's a fashion stock. Public knowledge, don't even go there.

Disclaimer: CCP aren't the broken aspect of this, I'm not saying they are being shady.
They are one of the few companies making MMO's that have the revenue to support their investment needs. They have the unfortunate problem of low subs and any time they try and get support, the rhetorical reaction would be, "get more subs" because popularity takes president over profitable for some inexplicable reason.


Facebook is a company on the verge of profitability with a potentially massive upside if they can find a way to further monetize their huge customer base. I hope some day you are capable of factoring in the risk/reward of probabilities along with the magnitude of said probabilities, but it looks like youve got some growing up to do...
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#48 - 2013-01-10 17:52:59 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Because player skill and cooperation aren't simple grind formulas like currency and items generally are.

Why compete in any game where everyone does start perfectly equal every time? Because it can still be fun. Now, if that inequality is simply a matter of real-life wealth, that does not generally make for a very entertaining game to play (maybe to watch though). However, in Eve, and hopefully Dust, real-life wealth really doesn't mean that much in most cases, and inequality based on player skill and inter-player coordination is far more palatable.

That said, this whole line of conversations is pointless of off-topic in my mind. Asking if a persistent skill-to-win game can work is ridiculous, as obviously it does.


to remain on-topic, while Dust is Free-to-play, it benefits CCP because unlike EVE, Dust is a fast-twitch combat system that generates 1v1 pvp around every corner and Dust's pace of gameplay is 'drop in, start shooting.' improved weapon damage and defense available through microtransactions has a greater, immediate impact on pvp success than EVE.

I can't see why or how else it would be free-to-play.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#49 - 2013-01-10 17:54:33 UTC
Quote:
its actually a miracle that eve isnt f2p micro yet


They have no clue how to do it, and not make "Burn Jita" a permanent feature.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#50 - 2013-01-10 17:55:48 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
That said, this whole line of conversations is pointless and off-topic in my mind. Asking if a persistent skill-to-win game can work is ridiculous, as obviously it does.

EVE is dying, though.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#51 - 2013-01-10 17:56:42 UTC
I think EVE, in contrast to Dust, should return to completely irl money subscription based.

also, I'm pretty sure I'm buying a 500GB Assassin's Creed III PS3 bundle today. all this talk has me... wound-up.
Hedion's oracle
Naari LLC
#52 - 2013-01-10 17:57:31 UTC
Another small benefit is Crossover Marketing, ..........some Dustplayers will cross over to EvEonline itself.

Error: Working As intended
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#53 - 2013-01-10 17:58:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Thomas Hurt wrote:
Facebook makes a ton of money on ad revenue


Facebook didn't make 100 billion with a banner ad. Lol

Their business is selling your info, and business is good.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#54 - 2013-01-10 17:59:26 UTC
Hedion's oracle wrote:
Another small benefit is Crossover Marketing, ..........some Dustplayers will cross over to EvEonline itself.


yah, that might be a benefit, and I thought of that, too. but it's not enough to have launched... Dust...
Lexmana
#55 - 2013-01-10 18:01:22 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Free to play is the future, and CCP knows this. Allowing free access and only charging people for convenience or vanity items can often make more income than a subscription model.

I guarantee CCP already have plans to make EVE itself free to play if subs drop enough.

Free to play needs about 10 to 100 times more players than a subscription game to generate the same level of income. It might be the future for many games but not for games like EVE.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#56 - 2013-01-10 18:06:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Lexmana wrote:
Free to play needs about 10 to 100 times more players than a subscription game to generate the same level of income. It might be the future for many games but not for games like EVE.


The number of people playing EVE now is tiny compared to how many would if it were free.

EVE no longer holds the record for concurrent players on one MMO server. They were soundly beaten by a free to play game. The times they are a'changin'.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2013-01-10 18:06:37 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
Free to play is the future, and CCP knows this. Allowing free access and only charging people for convenience or vanity items can often make more income than a subscription model.

I guarantee CCP already have plans to make EVE itself free to play if subs drop enough.

Free to play needs about 10 to 100 times more players than a subscription game to generate the same level of income. It might be the future for many games but not for games like EVE.


well it would be nice if they would stop double-dipping, and make up their mind Twisted
Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#58 - 2013-01-10 18:15:35 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
Free-to-play is actually the most profitable payment model the games industry has ever produced.

Are you sure about that or is it just a 'feeling' that you have: http://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-the-top-10-highest-grossing-video-games-of-all-time-2012-6?op=1


Honestly profitability and popularity come hand in hand when it comes to gross income.

Whether F2P is more profitable than subscription based or like most console/computer games store bought comes down to the game's popularity also. The more who play the game, the more you make. Youre also comparing the top 10 highest grossing games of all time to F2P models which, so far, have lacked in TV advertisements and/or video advertisements. All of the games listed in that top 10 were well known by the general public, well made, and properly launched. Put it this way, ask a guy on the street if he's heard of CoD MW and if he's heard of WoT or Dust514 or even EVE Online, the guy will most likely say yes to the former and no to all 3 latters...

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."
Amun Doshu
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-01-10 18:23:43 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
What incentive does a player in Eve have to stay among other players who have a head start?

You can blob !

All the skillless noobs can blob up, then magic happens Shocked


yep, thats called gooneffect
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#60 - 2013-01-10 18:55:33 UTC
its really F2PBBIUPYDB

Free to play badly but if you pay you do better

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.