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Rattlesnake fit
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Rain Morbius
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-10-21 16:18:12 UTC
Looking for a good fit for a Rattlesnake PVE lvl 4 missions and ratting.Question Currently training cruise missiles 5
Goose99
#2 - 2011-10-21 16:28:53 UTC
[Rattlesnake, New Setup 1]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Core Defence Field Purger II
Large Core Defence Field Purger II


Garde II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Warden II x5
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2011-10-21 19:27:23 UTC
Drop some relays for a damage control and at least 2 BCU's.
Goose99
#4 - 2011-10-21 19:33:11 UTC
Dorian Wylde wrote:
Drop some relays for a damage control and at least 2 BCU's.


DC does basically nothing for shield, serves only to decrease your tank. Bcs adds very little to 4 launcher with no dmg bonus.

For gank fit, active tank it. But then you're better off with other boats.
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2011-10-21 20:01:08 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Dorian Wylde wrote:
Drop some relays for a damage control and at least 2 BCU's.


DC does basically nothing for shield, serves only to decrease your tank. Bcs adds very little to 4 launcher with no dmg bonus.

For gank fit, active tank it. But then you're better off with other boats.



It adds shield resists, which don't get a stacking penalty, and hull resists for emergencies. Mission fits are generally designed for absolute safety, especially for an expensive ship.

Why waste money on anything more than tech 1 launchers in the first place on a rattler? A BCU will help finish the missions faster, especially 2. Relays just kill your cap recharge, making you unstable even with just a couple hardeners. If you're going to use launchers at all, use damage mods and finish the missions quicker.
Lojak 2501
Unitum Investigationis et Progressus
#6 - 2011-10-22 07:47:57 UTC
my fit (all tech 2)

lows
cap flux coils x6

mids
invul x2
photon hardener
heat hardener
XL booster
boost amp
omni tracking link

highs
cruise launcher x4
drone link aug

rigs
CCC t1 x2
CCC t2 x1

drones
mission specific

*please note i have full high grade crystals so i get a better tank with a active than a passive
blitz warrior
Zynod Heavy Industry
#7 - 2011-10-22 10:17:36 UTC

Rattlesnake is the king of passive tanking and is one of the few battleships that can solo level 5 missions even with a T2 fit. Will prob need to warp out if you trigger the spawns wrong.

[Rattlesnake, Missions]

4x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile)
2x Drone Link Augmentor I

2x Large Shield Extender II
2x Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
2x Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II

6x Shield Power Relay II

3x Large Core Defence Field Purger I

5x Wasp II
5x Warden II
5x Hobgoblin II
5x Garde II


If isk is not an issue then try this


[Rattlesnake, I has STD's]

2x Black Eagle Drone Link Augmentor
4x Cruise Missile Launcher II

2x Large Shield Extender II
2x Pithum A-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Pithum A-Type Heat Dissipation Amplifier
2x Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

6x Shield Power Relay II

3x Large Core Defence Field Purger II

5x Wasp II
5x Warden II
5x Garde II
5x Hobgoblin II
Kesshisan
#8 - 2011-10-22 10:54:03 UTC
Dorian Wylde,

Your post is so full of inaccuracies and misnomers that I feel I need to address it piece by piece. Please don't feel this is a personal attack upon you, I just dislike to see misinformation being spread.

Dorian Wylde wrote:
It adds shield resists, which don't get a stacking penalty, and hull resists for emergencies. Mission fits are generally designed for absolute safety, especially for an expensive ship.


On the subject of Damage Control units, you are correct that they do not suffer from stacking penalties but they aren't always that useful. They only provide you with a % of the bonus missing from 100%. If you have 90% EM Shield Resists, a DCII will only give you 12.5% of 100-90%. Which means the DCII will only give you 1.3% EM Resists.

For missioning you can almost always find a better unit than a DCII to fit in a low slot.

For active shield, a Cap Flux Coil will usually increase your shield regen more than a DCII will.
For passive shield, a Shield Power Relay or Power Diagnostic Unit will usually fair you better than a DCII.
For armor tanking, an EANM will almost always be better than a DCII.

*note* This is for missioning only.

Regarding "Mission fits are generally designed for absolute safety, especially for an expensive ship."

This is false. You only need "enough" tank. Quite often "enough" tank is much less than you need to sustain your tank indefinitely vs the entire room. Instead what people do is fit minimal tank and then as much gank onto their ships. The idea behind this setup is that if you do more damage faster then there is less incoming damage. This mindset leads to the phrase "gank is my tank."

Dorian Wylde wrote:
Why waste money on anything more than tech 1 launchers in the first place on a rattler?


Are you advocating that spending an extra 5-10million isk on a ship worth the better part of a billion isk is "wasted money?" This is bad advice. Especially when you follow it up with:

Dorian Wylde wrote:
A BCU will help finish the missions faster, especially 2.


You tell them not to get T2 missile launchers, then tell them to do damage with their missiles.

Furthermore the Rattler is a drone boat, not a missile boat. Missiles are an afterthought. With that said, I still believe that you should get BCUs on the Rattler because you don't need a lot of modules for tank.

Fill up with the tank you need, then add on as much gank as you can fit.

Dorian Wylde wrote:
Relays just kill your cap recharge, making you unstable even with just a couple hardeners.


A Rattlesnake only needs a few hardeners to do L4s due to the outrageous tank is has. Furthermore it doesn't use cap to fire its weapons (Drones and Missiles.) You can easily be cap stable with Shield Power Relays. In fact, the Rattlesnake is one of the few Battleships which can sport an awesome passive tank.

Dorian Wylde wrote:
If you're going to use launchers at all, use damage mods and finish the missions quicker.


Good advice here. The Snake doesn't need a lot of tanking modules to be L4 prepared. So fill out the gank after your tank is done.

Here is my proposed L4 missioning fit for the OP:

[Rattlesnake, L4s]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Core Defence Field Purger II
Large Core Defence Field Purger II
Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I


Garde II x5
Ogre II x5
Bouncer II x5
Hobgoblin II x5


This achieves the ability to snipe (Bouncers), deal high damage (Gardes), kill things inside of your optimal (Ogres) and kill frigates (Hobs.) This ship is also not a loot pinata, as it should be because your EHP vs EM damage is very low with the Invuln field off (think about when you undock.) If you want to fit faction gear on your ship, you may want to change the purger rigs for extenders, and fit on a passive EM resistance amplifier somewhere to plug your EM hole. Furthermore this ship will fair just fine in L4 missions with only IV in both battleship skills, of course level V helps, but IV is plenty.
Rain Morbius
Doomheim
#9 - 2011-10-24 14:22:30 UTC
Thanks for the reply Kess, very helpful Smile
Puss in Boots
Naked Moon Industries
#10 - 2011-10-24 15:51:56 UTC
Dorian Wylde wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
Dorian Wylde wrote:
Drop some relays for a damage control and at least 2 BCU's.


DC does basically nothing for shield, serves only to decrease your tank. Bcs adds very little to 4 launcher with no dmg bonus.

For gank fit, active tank it. But then you're better off with other boats.



It adds shield resists, which don't get a stacking penalty, and hull resists for emergencies. Mission fits are generally designed for absolute safety, especially for an expensive ship.

Why waste money on anything more than tech 1 launchers in the first place on a rattler? A BCU will help finish the missions faster, especially 2. Relays just kill your cap recharge, making you unstable even with just a couple hardeners. If you're going to use launchers at all, use damage mods and finish the missions quicker.



First, there are far better ships to mission in than this. Secondly, if you are worried about Hull resist, you are doing it wrong. I will agree that if you are going to fit launchers, might as well give them a bcu or 2.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2011-10-24 17:11:33 UTC
Kesshisan wrote:
On the subject of Damage Control units, you are correct that they do not suffer from stacking penalties but they aren't always that useful. They only provide you with a % of the bonus missing from 100%. If you have 90% EM Shield Resists, a DCII will only give you 12.5% of 100-90%. Which means the DCII will only give you 1.3% EM Resists.


A 12.5% bonus is a 12.5% bonus, no matter what with DC II. To say it is insignificant because the total resist number change is rather small, is misleading.
Hypothetically, going from 99.5% resists to 100% resists is only getting 0.5% Resists by your logic.
Yet the result is huge.... the amount of damage of that type you can tank has skyrocketed - you are now invulnerable to that damage type.
The DC II increases the amount of incoming fire you can tank by 100/87.5 = 1.1428 , ie you can tank 14.3% more incoming damage.
Its essentially the same as adding a Invulnrability Field I if you already have 2 Invulns (or 1 Invuln and a type hardener, for a given damage type), due to the stacking penalty a third resist module will suffer.


On the subject of lows, I like to use Power Diagnostic systems. The powergrid boost is completely irrelevant here.
It increases your passive shield rechage (in terms of HP/sec) by 14.75%
It increases your energy recharge (in terms of GJ/sec) by 14.75%

By comparison, a capacitor flux coil increases energy recharge (in GJ/sec) by 21.6% and reduces your reserves.
A shield flux coil increases shield regen by 21.4%, and reduces buffer
A shield power relay increases shield regen (Hp/sec) by 31%.

I haven't mentioned the Cap relay, because presumably you'd use it for active tanking - running a booster, but it will decrease the booster effectiveness.

Power diagnostics give useful bonuses to passive tanking/buffer, and will allow you to run an active tank better.
Kesshisan
#12 - 2011-10-24 18:38:40 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
A 12.5% bonus is a 12.5% bonus, no matter what with DC II. To say it is insignificant because the total resist number change is rather small, is misleading.


I understand your math, and you are absolutely correct. It's always 12.5% damage reduction of incoming damage for shields.

However, when you already have a high resists, other modules will be more effective. From an opportunity cost standpoint (with your opportunity cost being module slots) another module will [almost] always be more effective. This amplifies as your resists increase. When your resists get extremely high the usefulness of a DC II wanes off. Given how high the Rattlesnake's resists get when fitting out any extra tank at all, I can conclude that a DC II will much less useful than other modules.

My main point still stands; there is almost always a better module to use other than a DC II for a missioning ship.

And I should reiterate that you are correct, a DC is a 12.5% reduction to shield damage after all other damage has been calculated. I could have been more clear in my explanation.
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2011-10-24 19:32:33 UTC
Kesshisan wrote:


You tell them not to get T2 missile launchers, then tell them to do damage with their missiles.

Furthermore the Rattler is a drone boat, not a missile boat. Missiles are an afterthought. With that said, I still believe that you should get BCUs on the Rattler because you don't need a lot of modules for tank.

Fill up with the tank you need, then add on as much gank as you can fit.
.



I never said not to get the launchers. If you actually bothered to read the posts you're dissecting, you'd see that I'm telling him to get both, so he can finish the missions faster. I also never disputed that drones are the primary source of damage.

Not bothering to nitpick the rest, I really don't care as much as you seem to.
Potato IQ
Doomheim
#14 - 2011-10-25 08:09:01 UTC
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Gistum A-Type Medium Shield Booster

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Drone Scope Chip I

Bouncer II x 5
Garde II x 5
Hammerhead II x 5
Hobgoblin II x 5