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Pulling the Plug on WiS

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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#741 - 2013-01-09 17:18:20 UTC
Thomas Gore wrote:
God I thought I hated EVE resources being taken for DUST development, but it seems I was very conservative after all.

oldbutfeelingyoung you are one bitter man.



Only when i am butthurt and my old butt is hurting

R.S.I2014
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#742 - 2013-01-09 21:09:28 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Same here. Honest. WiS and WiS gameplay is the future of this game, and I'm amazed after a decade CCP still doesn't see it. Look guys, it's very simple. Ten years, give or take, of FiS stuff. Say it with me, TEN YEARS! And the game still hasn't busted through 500k subs. Out of which at least 1/3rd (very conservatively estimated, probably closer to 2/3rds in reality) is alt accounts. You think another 10 years of FiS will improve the situation? Because it's the very definition of insanity - doing something over and over and expecting a different result. Look at the last 18 months. Wall-to-wall FiS stuff, with some very heavy changes (ship rebalance, crimewatch, FW, etc.) Did population go up in any significant way? Nope! Try to figure out why.

Is this the MMO development version of 'you're losing because you're not winning fast enough'?

Here's another way of looking at it: spaceships have given CCP a decade of steady growth, whereas virtually every MMO where you appear as a humanoid avatar and walk around has trailed off into obscurity and failure after a few months. Or, you know, you could consider that what matters isn't "my character looks like a spaceship" versus "my character looks like a person with feet and arms and things", but the gameplay and content?

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Rawk Chick
#743 - 2013-01-10 14:20:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Rawk Chick
Thomas Gore wrote:
Rawk Chick wrote:
WIS is a stupid waste of time and resources...


Thanks for your valuable input. Now back into your cave!

I left the cave cause I saw you crawling out from under a rock... Big sissy...

Sura Sadiva wrote:
Rawk Chick wrote:
WIS is a stupid waste of time and resources...


thank you for the evaluable analysis and bright contribute to the discussion. Your knowledge of the game is evident and your opinion will be surely taken in count by other players.


Another whiner. LOTS of people agree with me including CCP it seems since they have apparently abandoned it for other things. So rage on Sissy #2...
The Legendary Soldier
United.
#744 - 2013-01-10 16:17:37 UTC
Rawk Chick wrote:
WIS is a stupid waste of time and resources...



QFT

Need to place a high-sec POS? Premade corps for sale, or your corps standings boosted. Trading since January 2012. Many corps sold/boosted - see my thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63128&find=unread
OkaskiKali
Aussie Carebear OverLords
#745 - 2013-01-10 16:22:16 UTC
what is WIS and world of darkness?
Keav
Imperial Space Corporation
#746 - 2013-01-10 18:23:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Keav
World of Darkness is a completely separate vampire game that CCP are developing.

See here YouTube CCP WOD Playlist

WIS is "Walking in Stations" which currently just means your Captains Quarters but was supposed to be so much more. Also known in the past as Incarna and Ambulation.

Another demo video here and there are more if you just search YouTube for them Big smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41s1Iox18A

Edit:

Searching around reminded me of this Carbon demo which shows the potential of what they were trying to develop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmOW4eICmT0

All the more reason it's a shame they haven't followed through with implementing it - although in my experience a full scale roll out of this would melt many graphics cards Roll

...AND... I'd been looking for this one for a while and just found it. A proper demo of some of the WIS spaces and "mini" games you could play in a bar Lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia4HwgrpGjQ
Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#747 - 2013-01-10 20:30:34 UTC
Dang nabbit! I want my SecWars table.

Tactical destroyers... I'll take a dozen Gallente, please.
Celly Smunt
Neutin Local LLC
#748 - 2013-01-11 03:46:48 UTC
Keav wrote:
World of Darkness is a completely separate vampire game that CCP are developing.

See here YouTube CCP WOD Playlist

WIS is "Walking in Stations" which currently just means your Captains Quarters but was supposed to be so much more. Also known in the past as Incarna and Ambulation.

Another demo video here and there are more if you just search YouTube for them Big smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41s1Iox18A

Edit:

Searching around reminded me of this Carbon demo which shows the potential of what they were trying to develop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmOW4eICmT0

All the more reason it's a shame they haven't followed through with implementing it - although in my experience a full scale roll out of this would melt many graphics cards Roll

...AND... I'd been looking for this one for a while and just found it. A proper demo of some of the WIS spaces and "mini" games you could play in a bar Lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia4HwgrpGjQ


Tanks?, did I see Tanks????????

Now I know where WOT came from... an EvE mini Bar game.

:P


Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Zira Sun
Planisphere Salvage
#749 - 2013-01-11 13:02:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Zira Sun
Keav wrote:
World of Darkness is a completely separate vampire game that CCP are developing.

...

Searching around reminded me of this Carbon demo which shows the potential of what they were trying to develop:


Given that from a player side performance perspective the current implementation of WiS, its impact on resource utilization for a mere one small room and one avatar render was significant for high end systems even with low quality settings, that it was brought into Eve under the guise of parallel development borrowing from WoD development and that WoD isn't due to be released until a future as of yet unknown date and you can really only come to 2 conclusions:

1) Carbon was a dismal failure since rendering large scale environments and/or multiple avatars was not possible for the mass market of players and likely for noone with the current and even <5yr availability of hardware.

or

2) CCP never intended for WiS to be anything more than a laboratory experiment, knew the technology was too resource intensive but, needed to get a live demonstration under their belts for whatever nefarious corp purposes (investors?).

If they're WiS Death-blog (see what I did there) is to be believed, CCP stated they were shelving WiS and changing up WoD development, then it was clearly a case of failure.

If not to be wholly believed, then I tend to side with #2 and in typical "See what they do, not listen to what they say" fashion consider WiS as nothing more than a technological concept test. Or hell maybe it was both!
Keav
Imperial Space Corporation
#750 - 2013-01-11 13:19:25 UTC
@Zira Sun No argument from me on the points you make - I did use the word "trying" Blink

Those more cynical of us would agree, never really intended to release or purely a product to licence or a dismal failure... but I'll leave those thoughts alone right now Twisted
John Cant
NEXUS Holdings Inc.
#751 - 2013-01-11 17:01:24 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Anna Karhunen wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:

nice ,now show me where the devs told you ,this would be possible

It is most certainly possible. While I am not programmer, I am familiar with QM/MM (theoretical only - never done it myself). That is simulation method where part of the simulated system (for example an enzyme) is handled with quantum mechanics (in the enzyme that would be the active site) and rest of it is handled with molecular mechanics (rest of the protein, water, ions and whatever else is put in the system). Now, both QM and MM both have different time step lengths and yet the method is able to handle them both quite well. I don't see any reason why EVE could not be programmed to handle different lengths when it has been done elsewhere for years.


i think you put to much trust into CCP


My view is that if you have the Dust 3d environments up and running on the cluster then you have an avatar populatable 3D space which can be accessable in a range of ways. The Maps themselves are all going to follow certain standards and I've no doubt that CCP already have the tools to translate these from Unreal to Carbon. Hell, the CC room (door and all) was probably developed in another engine then ported to Carbon.

Now you have hosted spaces and different ways of accessing them, WiS is very feasible as you change the running and gunning (with it's twitch reflex speed but lower quality graphical style) for the Dust Bunnies (I preffer Mites as they are tiny compared to us :) ) for more heavily populated environments that can be either viewed in Carbon for high quality or scaled down graphics wise to potentially even just use the same Unreal UI the dusties use...

the biggest concern is if the PC you have can render the large sized and heavily populated areas. That's a question of scalability and on-the-fly FPS/quality adjustments as needed.

With WiS environments we'll have less "wide open vistas" and more smaller rooms and corridors so unless the Goons swarm the station en masse, the rendering requirements would be much less than Dust.

JC.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#752 - 2013-01-11 17:22:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
I believe you have seen where is DUST developed. Do you think, that they made it for a cup of rice? That would be ourageous. Time and money, that's what counts. WIS is dead (for now), but can be resuscitated when good wind will blow into CCP sails.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#753 - 2013-01-12 12:45:35 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
I believe you have seen where is DUST developed. Do you think, that they made it for a cup of rice? That would be ourageous. Time and money, that's what counts. WIS is dead (for now), but can be resuscitated when good wind will blow into CCP sails.

What will happen ,if Dust fails?
What will be the general reaction from everybody to such a failure ,if it should happen?

R.S.I2014
Zol Interbottom
Blimp Requisition Services
#754 - 2013-01-12 13:09:04 UTC
If WiS isn't finished soon I'm going to break through the door and post 90 YouTube videos exploring the other side of whatever is there

Although if you gave us customizable Captains Quarters for reasonable ISK prices (tens of millions at the least per thing) I would be encouraged not the explore things that are not yet ready to be explored

"If you're quitting for the 3rd time you clearly ain't quitting" - Chribba
Hugs n Kisses
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#755 - 2013-01-12 13:35:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Hugs n Kisses
WiS should be scrapped. If you wanna fap to your avatar then go play something else. Spaceships or gtfo.

P.S for the love of god. Change the panther colours back.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#756 - 2013-01-12 14:39:38 UTC
Hugs n Kisses wrote:
WiS should be scrapped.

The pre-Incarna roadmap for WiS (You can buy monocles! You can pretend to drink beer in a pretend-bar! You can do all the things you do whilst docked already but in a much more clunky and graphically intensive way!) is scrapped already. What we're now waiting for is CCP picking through the wreckage to find things they can use for WiS 2.0, where they go back to work on the gameplay that they should have been working on six years ago as part of the project but inexplicably neglected to bother with until now.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#757 - 2013-01-12 15:38:29 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Same here. Honest. WiS and WiS gameplay is the future of this game, and I'm amazed after a decade CCP still doesn't see it. Look guys, it's very simple. Ten years, give or take, of FiS stuff. Say it with me, TEN YEARS! And the game still hasn't busted through 500k subs. Out of which at least 1/3rd (very conservatively estimated, probably closer to 2/3rds in reality) is alt accounts. You think another 10 years of FiS will improve the situation? Because it's the very definition of insanity - doing something over and over and expecting a different result. Look at the last 18 months. Wall-to-wall FiS stuff, with some very heavy changes (ship rebalance, crimewatch, FW, etc.) Did population go up in any significant way? Nope! Try to figure out why.

Is this the MMO development version of 'you're losing because you're not winning fast enough'?

Here's another way of looking at it: spaceships have given CCP a decade of steady growth, whereas virtually every MMO where you appear as a humanoid avatar and walk around has trailed off into obscurity and failure after a few months. Or, you know, you could consider that what matters isn't "my character looks like a spaceship" versus "my character looks like a person with feet and arms and things", but the gameplay and content?
Mostly agree with the notion that spaceships brings the foreign currency into Iceland's economy.

I believe that there is a place for humanoid avatars in EVE, just not in useless, one-room stations.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
Xoria Krint
The Angelic
#758 - 2013-01-12 15:48:30 UTC
I for one am glad that they scrapped WiS for the time being. There so much else to focus on. Good choice CCP and good work on the latest expansion. Keep em coming.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#759 - 2013-01-12 15:55:54 UTC
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:
]Mostly agree with the notion that spaceships brings the foreign currency into Iceland's economy.


Really, what has bought foreign currency to Iceland for a decade is a player-driven, single shard, open-ended sandbox with a focus on no-holds-barred competition and political skullduggery. Providing they stuck to that underlying theme I'm fairly sure that CCP could have had similar success if they'd decided against spaceships and instead gone with an avatar-based game in a swords-and-magic fantasy setting, or a post-apocalyptic nuclear wasteland*, or any one of a number of alternatives.

What doesn't excite anyone is avatars for avatars' sake like Incarna, where CCP spent two years making a room to walk around in and no content that impacted the game whatsoever.

*good lord I'd love to play a Mad Max-style post apocalyptic MMO with the same underlying principles as Eve.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#760 - 2013-01-12 17:39:26 UTC
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/6gtNI.jpg[/IMG]

That's my EVE, 99% of the time I'm playing.

I don't actually play EVE that much, and there are a lot of people like me playing EVE. We'd really love it if we atually got that other part of the game we were promised many, many years ago.

You can ask me any day, at any time, "show us what you're doing in EVE" and it would look exactly like that screenshot.

Being able to just walk around a station and emote would be a huge firgging deal to people like me, and I"m not as small a minority as people would think. I'm not an RPer, I don't want barbies, I'm just a dude that started EVE in '05. I don't really want to fly spaceships all that much anymore.

I have time I'd love to spend doing things in EVE, but I have nothing to actually do outside of staring at what you see in that screenshot.

I want meaningful, but I would elated to get simple that eventually turns into meaningful.


If you fly in space a lot, and enjoy it, then you probably won't relate.
The only reason I"m still with EVE is because when I got tired of doing one thing, I had other things to do. Once you get tired of running around killing mobs in WoW, you don't have much to move on to.

Unfortunetly a big part of industry and the market doesn't really provide a lot of engaging gameplay. It would be much more enjoyable to do something on a station and look at that screenshot every now and then.

Instead, I only have that screenshot to look at.