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Sick of Capsule's and pod pilots.

First post
Author
Alex Triton
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-01-10 03:22:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Alex Triton
I think the whole concept of capsuleers and pod pilots is nonsense on so many levels to be honest. It takes away from the whole concept of commanding a spaceship. Nobody wants to BE a starship, they want to COMMAND one. I would think that most sci-fi fans agree. The logic and lore is all very inconsistent, and all the backstory surrounds THEM like the entire eve populace is a capsuleer. It's as if no fighting goes on outside of the affairs of capsuleers, no military engagments happen between non-capsuleers, and nothing of any relevence goes on in the universe outside of capusleer captain affairs. Am I wrong, or are the vast majority of the space lanes commanded by non-pod pilots with traditional crews? Why does all the back story and lore hammer in this ridiculous demigod concept?

I am reading chronicles to get a feel of the world of eve and every damn backstory chronicle goes on and on about capsuleers. Are there no non-pod captains, non-pod industrialists, miners, corporations, ships, ect? Does the entire world revolve around human starship hybrids? I thought we are supposed to be rare? Why does it feel like everyone is a capsuleer?? I feel in love with the world of eve, the polictics. I am so over this stupid, illogical lore concept.
Maire Gheren
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2013-01-10 03:34:01 UTC
Because capsuleers mostly just care about capsuleers, and permadeath with a gimped character isn't much fun?

There are ships not piloted by capsuleers. A lot of them look like red plusses to us, and we blow through armies of them without a single thought.
Soon we get to deal with corporations and industries and whatnot run by undying mercenaries, too. That'll add a bit of variety at least.
Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-01-10 08:56:06 UTC
Bare in mind this is where player experiance heavily divides from lore. Though the scope of the game, yes it does seem like everything is revolved around capsuleers. Consider that everything NOT involving capsuleers is devoid of actual people interacting with it. There is so much more happening than what we see or that is possible to put forth in games.

Consider the following as things that happen in actuality, but cannot be reasonably expressed in the game, or written lore.

At all stargates there is a line of ships awaiting clearance to go though. They need to wait behind more important ships (us).

At all major ports there are alot of ships going for trade and the like, but like star-gates they need to wait.

There are MANY smaller stations and outposts in any given system. Most of these dealing with the common person and have no value to capsuleers at all.

You can see evidence of these kind of activities in some missions where you see stations and military bases (which the capsuleers prove their vast superiority to by ripping asunder easily). If you want an in game explanation for these things, consider that your ships sensors are designed to ignore insignificant ships and stations... Thats key to keep in mind, the activities of the common man are... Insignificant



CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#4 - 2013-01-10 10:23:35 UTC
The vast majority of our chronicles are about non-pod pilots. And yes, the vast majority of ships in the backstory are not piloted by capsuleers.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents

Eliniale
Co-operative Resource Extraction
#5 - 2013-01-10 11:36:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Eliniale
Alex Triton wrote:
I think the whole concept of capsuleers and pod pilots is nonsense on so many levels to be honest. It takes away from the whole concept of commanding a spaceship. Nobody wants to BE a starship, they want to COMMAND one. I would think that most sci-fi fans agree. The logic and lore is all very inconsistent, and all the backstory surrounds THEM like the entire eve populace is a capsuleer. It's as if no fighting goes on outside of the affairs of capsuleers, no military engagments happen between non-capsuleers, and nothing of any relevence goes on in the universe outside of capusleer captain affairs. Am I wrong, or are the vast majority of the space lanes commanded by non-pod pilots with traditional crews? Why does all the back story and lore hammer in this ridiculous demigod concept?

I am reading chronicles to get a feel of the world of eve and every damn backstory chronicle goes on and on about capsuleers. Are there no non-pod captains, non-pod industrialists, miners, corporations, ships, ect? Does the entire world revolve around human starship hybrids? I thought we are supposed to be rare? Why does it feel like everyone is a capsuleer?? I feel in love with the world of eve, the polictics. I am so over this stupid, illogical lore concept.



Did you actually spend over an hour on dipping into the lore? Because if you have, I have a hard time grasping how you can be blind to so much lore and stories which are all about regular non-eggers. Short of a very few exceptions, every one of the old chronicles is about normal people.

All of the chronicles can be found here: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Category:Chronicles (note: some are no longer canon)

In addition: you do in fact command your entire spaceship from your pod. Some capsuleer vessels also do carry complements of crew (especially the larger ones). So in fact much of your entire post makes no sense at all.

In closing: if you want to physically hop round in your ship I refer you to startrek online, eve may not be for you.

System ideas: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=191928&find=unread

Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#6 - 2013-01-10 13:01:13 UTC
I must admit, it took me a little to get used to the concept of capsuleers. Mostly for the reasons you've listed. I saw the entire concept as a mere game-play justification.

But after really taking the time to enjoy the chronicles and novels, I've come to appreciate it as more than that. It's a unique setting we don't see in most other sci-fi. If it was simply about ships and crew in space, I'd need only turn to just about any other sci-fi setting.

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind

Etherealclams
#7 - 2013-01-10 13:03:36 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
The vast majority of our chronicles are about non-pod pilots. And yes, the vast majority of ships in the backstory are not piloted by capsuleers.


He said that they were. Theres only maybe.. 2-3? That I've read so far that do have capsuleers even in them.
Love the chronicles btw, write more!!

http://aclamthatrants.blogspot.com/ Read up on my adventures.

Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-01-10 14:12:52 UTC
Actually, the idea of binding man and machine is in most science fiction in one way or another, but specially in cyberpunk. And, to a great amount, EvE is the cyberpunk space opera.

But, that said, there have been in EvE many interactions that haven't had to do with capsuleers. I remember escorting the Speaker of Truths (which wasn't a capsuleer) to meet Articio Kor-Azor (which isn't a capsuleer either) and making the whole Empire turn. Or the war between House Miyan and House Darabi, two Holder Houses centered on their own politics and which cared prety little for us capsuleers. Gallenteans had an election as well, for example.

So, as you see, it's not all only about us. It's just that this is the side of the coin we get to see and play. We don't get to talk with our ship's crew even when they are there, nor interact with the merchants in the streets of any space station or planet we would like to visit. At least, we don't get to do that in game, which doesn't mean our characters don't do that RP wise.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#9 - 2013-01-10 17:12:16 UTC
Alex Triton wrote:
I think the whole concept of capsuleers and pod pilots is nonsense on so many levels to be honest. It takes away from the whole concept of commanding a spaceship. Nobody wants to BE a starship, they want to COMMAND one. I would think that most sci-fi fans agree. The logic and lore is all very inconsistent, and all the backstory surrounds THEM like the entire eve populace is a capsuleer. It's as if no fighting goes on outside of the affairs of capsuleers, no military engagments happen between non-capsuleers, and nothing of any relevence goes on in the universe outside of capusleer captain affairs. Am I wrong, or are the vast majority of the space lanes commanded by non-pod pilots with traditional crews? Why does all the back story and lore hammer in this ridiculous demigod concept?

I am reading chronicles to get a feel of the world of eve and every damn backstory chronicle goes on and on about capsuleers. Are there no non-pod captains, non-pod industrialists, miners, corporations, ships, ect? Does the entire world revolve around human starship hybrids? I thought we are supposed to be rare? Why does it feel like everyone is a capsuleer?? I feel in love with the world of eve, the polictics. I am so over this stupid, illogical lore concept.


I'm going to quote myself: The lore was written to appease game design, not logic.

But you raise an interesting fictional point - how do non-capsuleers perceive capsuleers? And, if someone has a negative opinion of them, how would they enact change? And, who would support such a change, and why? What would the motives be for doing this? political? economical? sociological? theological? ecological?

Would they fight fire with fire? Or use persuasive indoctrination to potential capsuleers, preying on fear or ridicule?

Think more on this, you should.

AK

This space for rent.

AstraPardus
Earthside Mixlabs
#10 - 2013-01-10 23:19:35 UTC
I want to be a starship. :3
Every time I post is Pardy time! :3
kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-01-11 01:20:11 UTC
Weee I am not crazy I am a slicer!

As for fiction I like writing and reading about people. So I like humans most, Capsuleers arent real humans any more, most of them arent very sane either. Check this forum for proof. When i write about hem its in a hush hush way as one would around the psychopath when he is over for dinner. I am most interested in how one goes from being a regular person to a capsuleer. Can you buy your way in, its it by aptitude. How much does it differ between races. Would like to write something about the process at some point.
CCP Falcon
#12 - 2013-01-11 15:58:51 UTC
It sounds to me like you haven't done much reading, and haven't even scratched the surface.

Check out the fiction portal on the EVE Online Wiki, and take a look at some of the player created fiction that's out there.

Big smile

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3

kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-01-11 16:21:40 UTC
Trying to catch up Falcon, there is so much of it! Basically got about 9 years of stuff to read. Lots of it very good. Ive been relying on the eve wiki sites a lot since its hard to find the right info without reading every story. I am still quite new to this though.
Dex Tera
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-01-11 20:00:21 UTC
if you dont like it stfu and gtfoEvil
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-01-12 04:01:02 UTC
I don't think that line is particularly helpful or insightful Dex. Some of us love EvE in ever little detail, but those who don't deserve as much respect as the rest of us. Listening to the voices that are critic with the game (or any thing in general) may make it all as a whole improve and correct mistakes when those voices are right about aproblem, or at least offer another point of view of the common issues of the game. And, specially, when it's a new player talking, which need to be enforced and helped to get to like the lore of the game and the game itself, EvE already is hard enough on them in many ways for the community to be so too.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2013-01-13 03:18:15 UTC
Alex Triton wrote:
I think the whole concept of capsuleers and pod pilots is nonsense on so many levels to be honest. It takes away from the whole concept of commanding a spaceship. Nobody wants to BE a starship, they want to COMMAND one. I would think that most sci-fi fans agree. The logic and lore is all very inconsistent, and all the backstory surrounds THEM like the entire eve populace is a capsuleer. It's as if no fighting goes on outside of the affairs of capsuleers, no military engagments happen between non-capsuleers, and nothing of any relevence goes on in the universe outside of capusleer captain affairs. Am I wrong, or are the vast majority of the space lanes commanded by non-pod pilots with traditional crews? Why does all the back story and lore hammer in this ridiculous demigod concept?

I am reading chronicles to get a feel of the world of eve and every damn backstory chronicle goes on and on about capsuleers. Are there no non-pod captains, non-pod industrialists, miners, corporations, ships, ect? Does the entire world revolve around human starship hybrids? I thought we are supposed to be rare? Why does it feel like everyone is a capsuleer?? I feel in love with the world of eve, the polictics. I am so over this stupid, illogical lore concept.


Wow this thread is new and exciting.

But let's see... So you feel like you are a starship. Well that's odd because I don't, every time I dock at some station (which I don't do often) I get out of the capsule and stretch my legs, thank you very much. Yes, we fans of sci-fi want to command a ship... So what? Should we have our toon looking trough the command bridge window, for you to feel it like real? In Freelancer (a spaceship shoot'em'up game back in the 2003) I never saw my pilot in space either, just when I docked up, and I don't remmeber it like being a spaceship either.

To me, this problem is all in your head and a misunderstanding of the whole 'you see and feel what if sees and feels' concept.

Regarding backstory being about capsuleers... Yeah let's see the books... Empryean age is about a crew of non-capsuleers, and a capsuleer who has become a mortal. The burning life has a corp agent and a belt rat as main characters, where the bad guy is a capsuleer. And Templar One has the same non-capsuleer crew, a dust soldier and a capsuleer of minor importance who cannot get himself killed.

Considering that capsuleers are the most powerful, rich, inmortal and deadly beings of the known universe, that seems a bit underwhelming. As for chronicles, I have yet to see one that features a capsuleer other than Jamyl Sarum.

All in all, sorry if you don't like to concept. We see a number of people around here who for some reason or the other seem to dislike that anybody could find engaging to tell and hear stories about it, or find interesting to speculate about how could it all be put together without breaking apart.
Why do they think that people isn't aware that this is a game and the story has been constructed in a way that it would explain the necessary game mechanics, and feel necesary to remind everybody about it every chance they get, will remain a bigger mistery than what are the joves up to.
Horatius Caul
Kitzless
#17 - 2013-01-13 03:30:39 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
As for chronicles, I have yet to see one that features a capsuleer other than Jamyl Sarum.
Jacus Roden and Malaetu Shakor are also capsuleers. Possibly Foiritan and Blaque as well.
Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-01-13 13:27:31 UTC
Ah well I haven't read those yet, but still, as Sarum, I wouldn't consider them 'capsuleers' as their main trait. They are the governors of their empires, who happen to be capsuleer because it's something that gives added power, but they very seldom pilot any ship this days.
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2013-01-13 16:16:26 UTC
I actually always found it rather strange and silly that most of the governors of all empires were capsuleers. Compared to the real world, you can probably find that far from most of the governors of the different countries are elite airship pilots. :S

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Eliniale
Co-operative Resource Extraction
#20 - 2013-01-13 16:25:07 UTC
Sepherim wrote:
I don't think that line is particularly helpful or insightful Dex. Some of us love EvE in ever little detail, but those who don't deserve as much respect as the rest of us. Listening to the voices that are critic with the game (or any thing in general) may make it all as a whole improve and correct mistakes when those voices are right about aproblem, or at least offer another point of view of the common issues of the game. And, specially, when it's a new player talking, which need to be enforced and helped to get to like the lore of the game and the game itself, EvE already is hard enough on them in many ways for the community to be so too.


Well I agree with your statement, i do not believe Tirton is exactly being critical, more acting like a small child that kicks and screams because something isn't exactly to her liking (although in a somewhat more adult fashion). For this reason I can empathise with the statment made by Dex, even though I do not fully endorse it. Triton could in just a quick hour( or perhaps less) than reading, find many a reason to find the capsuleer and whole eve set-up engaging, but does not seem to want to do so.

I think in all Qvar has about the right of it, and summed up the whole thing very neatly, for which a big +1

System ideas: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=191928&find=unread

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