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Destroyers for orbital bombardment? Really??

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Keno Skir
#21 - 2013-01-10 10:44:28 UTC
Oki Riverson wrote:
I have every confidence CCP will - sort things out.


U new round here? :D

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-01-10 10:44:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Let's not be hasty, here. Don't forget, DUST is still in beta - by limiting OB to small turrets, they are limiting the load on their servers for the moment while they continue to test. I highly doubt that, come the final release of the game, OB will be restricted to smalls. If it is, then in that case, I agree - goodbye EVE. But for now, let's just all kick back and enjoy our new Catalysts.

Here's another fun fact, btw - you can still fit small turrets to your battleships and whatnot. If you REALLY feel the need to rain death from something tougher than a dessie (to increase your survivability against surface-to-space attacks) then you can still do that.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Randy en Namero
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-01-10 10:45:55 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Just read that orbital strikes will be fired from small guns.. Does this seem like a break from "eve reality" to anyone else?

Guesse since they used an Abaddon for the Fanfest demo i just assumed you would need large guns to fire them, if not some sort of special module that takes buku CPU or something. That said i actually still feel like a destroyer raining death from hundreds of kilometers up is a bit far fetched.

Not tryin to get it changed or anything, just noticed it today and didn't sit right. I'm imagining clouds of thrashers or even atrons, hell even industrials firing highly destructive weapons a really really long way... not how i'd have done it anyway o/



It's probably just the opener, keep in mind that the game isn't even live yet. Chances are, your BS will get it's time to strike.
Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
#24 - 2013-01-10 10:46:19 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Thomas Gore wrote:
Why would a battleship waste time firing into a 24 man skirmish?

DUST is not Planetside 2, the scale is tiny.


My argument is from a gameplay perspective primarily, but additionally the massive range of the shells is far out of the realms of what i assumed to be small turret capability and small ship capability.

If the 24 man skirmish is for somewhere important the skirmish is more than the numbers involved. Thought that was the difference between DUST and call of duty, meaning to the conflict.

When i think "Orbital Bombardment" i think of mealstroms, not atrons.

"your main battle tank recieved 100,000 Damage from Keno Skirs Iteron 1 and was vapourized..."


Oh sorry I mistook that you wanted lore responses, because you were asking for "eve reality" in your post.

Gameplay wise it of course does not make sense, at all.
Oki Riverson
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#25 - 2013-01-10 10:46:39 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Oki Riverson wrote:
I have every confidence CCP will - sort things out.


U new round here? :D


Hardly :P
Keno Skir
#26 - 2013-01-10 10:48:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Let's not be hasty, here. Don't forget, DUST is still in beta - by limiting OB to small turrets, they are limiting the load on their servers


How did you get to the conclusion that making the required ship mega cheap and disposable will limit the stress on the server? Won't 4 times as many people be doing it? Does a battleship not take up the same server power as a destroyer? How about 10 destroyers?

What?

EDIT : oh u mean defence fleets?

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
iskflakes
#27 - 2013-01-10 10:50:35 UTC
I do find it funny that in space small guns can't hit a stationary target 20km away, but somehow they can hit a target 300km away on the surface of a planet with accuracy on the order of a few meters.

This choice has been made for the benefit of DUST players, who will want to try out EVE and be shelling a planet within a few minutes.

If battleships are ever allowed to fire at planets it will only be 1.2x as good as a destroyer.

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To mare
Advanced Technology
#28 - 2013-01-10 10:50:57 UTC
going a bit RP but any small charge would probably burn in the atmosphere, im also a supporter of only L charge having a small charge to hit from space and XL charge being the optimal for orbital bombardment
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-01-10 10:52:29 UTC
Givei t time, guys. They already demonstrated larger ships being able to orbitally bombard planets at Fanfest. You'll get access to bigger, shinier toys that'll let you risk more of your money plinking at a planet in due course.

Patience is a virtue.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Keno Skir
#30 - 2013-01-10 10:53:44 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
I do find it funny that in space small guns can't hit a stationary target 20km away, but somehow they can hit a target 300km away on the surface of a planet with accuracy on the order of a few meters.

This choice has been made for the benefit of DUST players, who will want to try out EVE and be shelling a planet within a few minutes.

If battleships are ever allowed to fire at planets it will only be 1.2x as good as a destroyer.


Im a little afraid that more bad things will happen to my beloved eve to make things easier for Dust players. Can't they just HTFU like we always have to :D

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-01-10 10:54:45 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Let's not be hasty, here. Don't forget, DUST is still in beta - by limiting OB to small turrets, they are limiting the load on their servers


How did you get to the conclusion that making the required ship mega cheap and disposable will limit the stress on the server? Won't 4 times as many people be doing it? Does a battleship not take up the same server power as a destroyer? How about 10 destroyers?

What?

EDIT : oh u mean defence fleets?


I was actually thinking of the extra code required to implement more ammo types, not so much the server load - I've been drinking. More code just to make the beta more like the final? Probably not necessary. A beta is like a "demo" - it's not the full version.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Duries Kain
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-01-10 10:55:09 UTC
Orbital Strikes should go off from Dreads in Siege. Everything else is just so stupid. How could anyone care if a destroyer warps through lowsec bombing planets. There should actually be a risk involved in getting a big advantage (what a OB should be).

Orbital Strikes that annihilate a decent radius on the planet from Dreads in siege, that would be badass.
Nockturna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-01-10 10:56:04 UTC
Now the scales are smaller and destroyers fit just well. When dust goes to null there will be larger battlefields and there will be a need for larger guns too.

And also DUST guys that are starting EVE account to support their Dust corps will have easier time to do it with destroyers. Imagine having to skill 1 year to be able to sit properly in a dread to so they can shoot on planets.
Keno Skir
#34 - 2013-01-10 10:56:57 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Let's not be hasty, here. Don't forget, DUST is still in beta - by limiting OB to small turrets, they are limiting the load on their servers


How did you get to the conclusion that making the required ship mega cheap and disposable will limit the stress on the server? Won't 4 times as many people be doing it? Does a battleship not take up the same server power as a destroyer? How about 10 destroyers?

What?

EDIT : oh u mean defence fleets?


I was actually thinking of the extra code required to implement more ammo types, not so much the server load - I've been drinking. More code just to make the beta more like the final? Probably not necessary. A beta is like a "demo" - it's not the full version.


We only needed the 1 ammo size, just not that one. As someone said just now it's more "i want everything now" guys from other games ruining our fun most likely.

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Ghazu
#35 - 2013-01-10 10:57:48 UTC
Welp too bad, I was hoping for groups of dreads in formation, being all vulnerable and making good content.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Duries Kain
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2013-01-10 11:01:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Duries Kain
Nockturna wrote:
Now the scales are smaller and destroyers fit just well. When dust goes to null there will be larger battlefields and there will be a need for larger guns too.

And also DUST guys that are starting EVE account to support their Dust corps will have easier time to do it with destroyers. Imagine having to skill 1 year to be able to sit properly in a dread to so they can shoot on planets.


So orbital strikes are just weak cause if they are actually turning the tides of a battle then a destroyer would just be stupid.

I mean, its a freaking ORBITAL BOMBARDMENT from a SPACECRAFT with HUGE WEAPONS and its gonna be like "oh damn that orbital bomberdment took me 10% of my HP" or what?
Liner Xiandra
Sparks Inc
#37 - 2013-01-10 11:03:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Liner Xiandra
Duries Kain wrote:
Orbital Strikes should go off from Dreads in Siege. Everything else is just so stupid. How could anyone care if a destroyer warps through lowsec bombing planets. There should actually be a risk involved in getting a big advantage (what a OB should be).

Orbital Strikes that annihilate a decent radius on the planet from Dreads in siege, that would be badass.


Risk vs. Reward.

If you think it's okay to have a Dread in siege mode fire into a Dust district in order to win one of possibly many dust battles to *possibly* swing FW systems easier then by all means go for it.
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2013-01-10 11:04:25 UTC
It may be worth remembering just how big and powerful the shells are that we use in EVE when compared to standard ground based weaponry. Gallente destroyers with rails will usually fire 125mm shells, slightly smaller than the 130mm shells fired by modern naval destroyers.

We know how much damage that kind of real life shell can cause, now imagine those shells being filled with anti-matter! And now imagine a shell half a metre across made of the same stuff travelling a good percentage the speed of light, the kind fired from a 425mm battleship railgun. The kinetic damage alone would vaporise a large portion of the area. Add in the anti--matter and you wouldn't just kill a few DUST soldiers, you would vaporise a few square kilometres.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
iskflakes
#39 - 2013-01-10 11:04:44 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Im a little afraid that more bad things will happen to my beloved eve to make things easier for Dust players. Can't they just HTFU like we always have to :D


Did you miss the fact that older players are having their advantages over new players nerfed?

The fact that you spend months or years training skills to high levels is now irrelevant.

T1 frigates are as good as T2. T1 cruiser logi is 90% as good as T2 at 1/100th the cost. 15 drakes are now as good as a supercarrier at 1/20th the cost and a fraction of the skillpoints. CCP will keep doing this as long as they think loyal veteran players are preventing new subscriptions.

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iskflakes
#40 - 2013-01-10 11:05:59 UTC
ISD TYPE40 wrote:
It may be worth remembering just how big and powerful the shells are that we use in EVE when compared to standard ground based weaponry. Gallente destroyers with rails will usually fire 125mm shells, slightly smaller than the 130mm shells fired by modern naval destroyers.

We know how much damage that kind of real life shell can cause, now imagine those shells being filled with anti-matter! And now imagine a shell half a metre across made of the same stuff travelling a good percentage the speed of light, the kind fired from a 425mm battleship railgun. The kinetic damage alone would vaporise a large portion of the area. Add in the anti--matter and you wouldn't just kill a few DUST soldiers, you would vaporise a few square kilometres.


How do you explain the huge difference in effective range? 20km in space, 300km when shooting a planet?

-