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Manufacture in null or haul back to Empire?
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Diesel Reigns
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-01-10 07:48:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel Reigns
Hello everyone...

I have a decent sized mining corp living in 0.0 We have SOV and are planning on upgrading it. I also have a division in hisec which is relatively active in mining low ends...I have the corp set up right now to mine and sell to the corp for jita buy order price (lets just say).. I started this corp to manufacture. What better position to put myself into than in the middle of a ton of motivated miners who love to make great isk mining.. Basically my plan was to purchase the minerals from the miners and be able to manufacture things for just a little cheaper than most since everything I purchase from my guys is at buy order prices.. Well, here I am at a cross roads..

I have been back and forth.. Back and forth.. about whether or not to manufacture in 0.0 with POS's or just haul all the hi ends to empire and manufacture there... Obviously the low ends are going to eventually be an issue mining in null.. they always are when you are mining in upgraded SOV.. I really dont know which way to go..

Obviously hisec has more places to build and there would be a cost for the
pos's in null. Hauling the ore to the POS is going to suck.. Jump Freightering the ore is going to be a little dangerous..well, more so than just manufacturing in null... I mean for every reason not to manufacture in null.. there is a reason not to do it in empire.. I really need the advice of someone who has been there and done it on a big scheme.. I mean not HUGE scheme.. but not a weekend warrior who makes shuttles and antimater charges who parades around like a manufacturer...lol

In a perfect world it would be awesome to be mentored.. in a sense..

any advice or suggestions
LordSpock
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-01-10 07:54:27 UTC
Well obviously if you need to haul the ore into 0.0 I see no reason to do it there.
Might just as well setup a same POS setup in high sec, or if you really care about fuelcost find a nice and quiet station in high-sec where there are plenty manufacturing slot.

Setup 'unsa'fe' POS in 0.0, using fuel for it, using jumpfuel for FJ to haul ore/minerals, jumping materials back to highsec

opposed to

Haul minerlas to station - manufacture - haul materials/modules/ammo to tradeplace
Diesel Reigns
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-01-10 08:12:01 UTC
LordSpock wrote:
Well obviously if you need to haul the ore into 0.0 I see no reason to do it there.
Might just as well setup a same POS setup in high sec, or if you really care about fuelcost find a nice and quiet station in high-sec where there are plenty manufacturing slot.

Setup 'unsa'fe' POS in 0.0, using fuel for it, using jumpfuel for FJ to haul ore/minerals, jumping materials back to highsec

opposed to

Haul minerlas to station - manufacture - haul materials/modules/ammo to tradeplace




I explained the situation a little better....
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-01-10 08:19:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilbaron
if you can build in an amarr outpost in 00 that is already there, do it, especially capitals or from T2 BPOs

if not, produce in highsec
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-01-10 09:09:08 UTC
It really depends on what your current logistics are, and what you are planning on doing with your final product. If you're going to ship the finished goods into HS to sell, well manufacture in HS. If you're going to be manufacturing capitals then you're limited to null/low.

Basically wherever your end product will be sold at is where you want your minerals and manufacturing to be at.

You might want to do the math on what will be best for moving minerals to/from each system. If you for example want to move low ends to null you might be better off compressing high end ores in null, transporting them to HS, then doing item compression (turret compression) and then shipping the turrets to your null manufacturing system. If you're just hauling all minerals to HS you can do turret compression, but your bottelneck will be low end materials, so you might at some point need to haul in low ends.
Dudley North
Interstellar Investments and Securities
#6 - 2013-01-10 09:19:47 UTC
You will have a logistics issue whether you manufacture in high or null - either low end minerals to null sec or high end minerals to high sec.

From a logistics point of view you are dealing with lower volumes hauling high end minerals to high sec space than vice-versa.

The next question is where is you market? If in high-sec then I'd recommend building there (minerals being easier to haul than finished goods!).

If you are trying to kickstart an economy in null, then my advice would be to just make the things you intend to sell in null and move minerals to manufacture in high (i.e. manufacture in both!)

And always bear in mind that anything set up in null can be destroyed in a day if you you are unlucky or get stomped (and obvious manufacturing POS's are attractive targets to some segments of the Eve population).

N.B. I've operated manufacturing POS in null for an alliance with SOV in an attempt to get an economy going. Made very little/nothing out of it since my sole market was fellow alliance members, hence no gouging, and ultimately lost the lot when the alliance suddenly disbanded (essentially over politics).

My advice would be to build in both high-sec and null, and keep the null-side operation as slim as possible to limit your exposure in the event of disaster.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-01-10 09:55:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
Not worth it in the slightest.

The short version (I had a longer version but the forums ate it Sad )

- Pretty much impossible to source everything you need local (i.e. lowends) for T1, and outright impossible for T2 and rigs. Importation needed to make up for the shortfall.
- Outposts are complete garbage and even after billions in upgrades aren't even in the same class as your average highsec station, meaning you're mega short on production/research slots. One outpost per system makes this even worse, as you'd need 3 in 3 systems to cover even basic production (1 Caldari for research, 1 Amarr for production, 1 Minmatar for refining).
- POS production isn't at all suited to large-scale market seeding type production that you seem to want. Fuel is also a huge issue; no ice/wrong topes? Importation needed.
- Miners/PI people will have to be paid very near Jita prices to avoid them simply exporting their own goods independently. Expect the difference in price to more or less the same costs you'd incur importing the products yourself.

If you have to import anything at all, it means you're likely rolling with jump freighters already. At that point, it's faster, easier and simply BETTER to import finished products from highsec (built yourself/bought from market/both). Doing it yourself in null just isn't worth it until things get a ~lot~ better.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Skorpynekomimi
#8 - 2013-01-10 10:27:44 UTC
I say move the high-end ores out to highsec, refine, manufacture, and send the finished goods you want to sell in nullsec back in. For construction of capitals, etc., manufacture the capital components in highsec and send them back with finished goods.

I say this because you need a LOT of low-end minerals to make things. You'd probably end up compressing them anyway, so why not just ship the lighter stuff out?
Fuel is a cost per-trip, as well. Better to move less quantity of compressed high-end ore out, than move a far higher quantity of minerals in. And when you're moving things out, you then have a JF handy to ship things on the return journey.

Also, a nullsec mining corp?
For the love of *****, recruit or train for PVP, or you're going to get kicked out in a hurry.

Economic PVP
Cavilha
Tupy Industries
#9 - 2013-01-10 13:01:12 UTC
I would contact neighbors to provide equipment and Navez they need. Fabricate and sell everything in 0.0 to 0.0.

Avoid shipping is always better. 0.0 Market is always good. It just depends on choosing the right items.

I'd start with T1 ships and is already programmed to capital.
Iosue
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#10 - 2013-01-10 16:24:45 UTC
This method requires having a dedicated hi-sec mining area where your ore refining station also has factory slots. It's also helpful to have a low-sec factory station with perfect refine for cap production.

1. refine hi-ends in null
2. transport hi-ends to factory station closest to hi-sec mining area
3. manufacture compression mods (425 railgun I)
4. transport compression mods to factory station near or at product sale station (you'll want a perfect refine at this station as well)
5. refine compression mods and produce final products
6. profit

if you're producing caps, transport compression mods to low or null sec station with factory and perfect refine.

Although this requires logistics to move minerals and compression mods around, you should be able to transport vast quantities of minerals via this method. which will also allow you to manufacture large volumes of mods, ships or caps. in general, you want to manufacture your final products near their point of use. however, if you plan on using them in null, you'll want to get them to a npc factory station with perfect refine which is as close to your null area as possible. then transport the finished goods via jf into your null area. gl.