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Could the Naga become a torp boat in the upcoming balance changes?

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#81 - 2013-01-10 05:03:22 UTC
Tippia wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
They popped them at scorch range, did they not? It's not exactly a secret that pulse lasers have the worst tracking of all the short range turrets.
Having “the worst” tracking doesn't really matter if the differences are as small as they are and if engagement happen where tracking largely becomes a non-factor anyway.

That was kind of my point, as far as the Napoc goes.
When you're in multifrequency ranges the low tracking does become rather significant, even if you're flying something like a Phantasm.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#82 - 2013-01-10 07:20:13 UTC
I would not remove Hybdrids from NAGA.

But I can see Naga applicable as close range ratter, an alternative to slower and more expensive raven. Torps can hit nicely, choose damage type and hit smaller targets more effectively at close range.

And what excites me most - 8 launcher ship, now isn't it awesome? (It comes near raven State issue, which is a dream beyond reach of every caldari pilot)

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#83 - 2013-01-10 07:31:15 UTC
Opertone wrote:
I would not remove Hybdrids from NAGA.

But I can see Naga applicable as close range ratter, an alternative to slower and more expensive raven. Torps can hit nicely, choose damage type and hit smaller targets more effectively at close range.

And what excites me most - 8 launcher ship, now isn't it awesome? (It comes near raven State issue, which is a dream beyond reach of every caldari pilot)


And the proposed 5% RoF bonus would give a Naga with 33% more damage than a Raven.

In what dream world are people living in where they seriously expect we're going to get a 1700 DPS batlecruiser?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
GallowsCalibrator
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#84 - 2013-01-10 08:20:19 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Opertone wrote:
I would not remove Hybdrids from NAGA.

But I can see Naga applicable as close range ratter, an alternative to slower and more expensive raven. Torps can hit nicely, choose damage type and hit smaller targets more effectively at close range.

And what excites me most - 8 launcher ship, now isn't it awesome? (It comes near raven State issue, which is a dream beyond reach of every caldari pilot)


And the proposed 5% RoF bonus would give a Naga with 33% more damage than a Raven.

In what dream world are people living in where they seriously expect we're going to get a 1700 DPS batlecruiser?


Yeah, it would be hilariously broken. Also hotdrop 50 of these on a dreadfleet and laffo.

I do still want a 8 launcher ship at some point though just to cover it with festival launchers and light up the sky.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#85 - 2013-01-10 08:37:24 UTC
XxRTEKxX wrote:
DrunkenNinja wrote:
So, I saw the changes to the cyclone becoming a missile boat and it got me thinking: "Maybe now they'll make the Naga a torpedo ship?"
From my understanding, the role of the Naga is largely similar to that of the Talos.
So what if in the upcoming balance changes, the Naga was given bonuses to siege missile launchers?


I wish they would make it a torp boat. Pissed me off when they initially decided to make it a hybrid only ship. 4 new ships added to the game, and none were missile boats. 4 weapon platforms in game, projectiles, missiles, hybrids, and lasers. They should have kept to that model per race on the new Battlectuisers. Just my opinion.


This coupled with recent missile nerfs and now...no missile orbital bombardment? I'm afraid that missiles are becoming a dying breed indeed. Time to change to guns now I guess :(
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#86 - 2013-01-10 08:46:51 UTC
Torp Naga was awful, a fundamental contradiction. The problem was basically that the targets that the torps were useful against were also ones that would handily smash the torp Naga's face in at the range that the torp Naga would have to engage at - BS and t2 BCs. The recent torp boost didn't change this fundamental problem.

Rail Naga is a great ship, it has a serious firepower advantage over other t3s around 100 km.
Komari Vosa
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2013-01-10 09:08:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Komari Vosa
The Naga is cool with turrets imo. It out dps's any other Caldari gunship, including the Rokh. I personally love my 425mm Railgun Naga. 700 dps at over 100km is hard for any other ship to max. With Spike ammo well over 200km optimal. The main issue it has is its targeting range.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#88 - 2013-01-10 09:09:37 UTC
Octoven wrote:
XxRTEKxX wrote:
DrunkenNinja wrote:
So, I saw the changes to the cyclone becoming a missile boat and it got me thinking: "Maybe now they'll make the Naga a torpedo ship?"
From my understanding, the role of the Naga is largely similar to that of the Talos.
So what if in the upcoming balance changes, the Naga was given bonuses to siege missile launchers?


I wish they would make it a torp boat. Pissed me off when they initially decided to make it a hybrid only ship. 4 new ships added to the game, and none were missile boats. 4 weapon platforms in game, projectiles, missiles, hybrids, and lasers. They should have kept to that model per race on the new Battlectuisers. Just my opinion.


This coupled with recent missile nerfs and now...no missile orbital bombardment? I'm afraid that missiles are becoming a dying breed indeed. Time to change to guns now I guess :(


Time to petition the UN and get CCP charged with crimes against humanity! This brutal persecution must stop NOW!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
OffBeaT
State War Academy
Caldari State
#89 - 2013-01-10 09:21:58 UTC
Yesss well, since I cant seem too beat anything moving in my titanic tanked ravens with cruse/torps & the only way I can is by the use of heavy missiles I think ill pass on this new cruse fitting Idea!
Oki Riverson
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#90 - 2013-01-10 09:55:59 UTC
I'd rather see this ship use Cruise Missile's and a rebalance to said weapon system.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#91 - 2013-01-10 09:57:11 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Ytterbium
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
snip


Yes, Caldari Hybrid ships are now in a much better state than they were before - please check the date of the post I quoted, it's back from 2011 around Crucible deployment, before we started the tiericide P

On a bright side note for missile users though, when we start rebalancing Battleships we will need to look into Cruise missiles and Torpedos as well, as both the Raven and Typhoon will heavily depend on them.
OffBeaT
State War Academy
Caldari State
#92 - 2013-01-10 10:04:46 UTC
Yess,, We do. you Da Man!
Keno Skir
#93 - 2013-01-10 10:07:14 UTC
DrunkenNinja wrote:
Roime wrote:
Why?



Because missile users don't have a "T3" BC?


Use turrets then.

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#94 - 2013-01-10 10:11:15 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
snip


Yes, Caldari Hybrid ships are now in a much better state than they were before - please check the date of the post I quoted, it's back from 2011 around Crucible deployment, before we started the tiericide P

On a bright side note for missile users though, when we start rebalancing Battleships we will need to look into Cruise missiles and Torpedos as well, as both the Raven and Typhoon will heavily depend on them.


This should be exciting - I'd love for the torp boats to become viable in PvP again

A good first step would be to review the reason for short range missile launchers to be harder to fit than long range missile launchers. I've never seen a serious explaination for this. Short range turrets are all considerably lighter on fittings than their long range equivalents, and it's generally assumed that this is because short-range turrets implicitly mean committing to the fight, and also being in energy neut range, so the llighter fittings leave more room for tank, cap injectors and so on.

But apparently this consideration doesn't apply to medium & large missile launchers, and it's the long range boats that need more fitting space, for some reason.

And finally, there's the infamous 'Caldari penalty' that applies to almost all the original Caldari ships: "Caldari role bonus: -25% reduction of powergrid"

Raven, 6 missile slots: 9500 base PG
Typhoon, 5 missile slots: 12500 base PG

Why should the Raven have 3000 less PG than the Typhoon? I have never heard a plausible explaination.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
OffBeaT
State War Academy
Caldari State
#95 - 2013-01-10 10:21:29 UTC  |  Edited by: OffBeaT
We need too solo fight more people to understand how out of whack some of these BS with Cruse on them are vs. anything. they are not just out off balance they are out of whack is more the term to use, so I hope they are going to do these fixes that are worth something.. I cant fly any cal BS anymore.. I gotta eject them these days.. I am ashamed to fly a cal bs..
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#96 - 2013-01-10 10:37:18 UTC
OffBeaT wrote:
We need too solo fight more people to understand how out of whack some of these BS with Cruse on them are vs. anything. they are not just out off balance they are out of whack is more the term to use, so I hope they are going to do these fixes that are worth something.. I cant fly any cal BS anymore.. I gotta eject them these days.. I am ashamed to fly a cal bs..


The Rokh is pretty good as a fleet ship.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2013-01-10 12:01:07 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
OffBeaT wrote:
We need too solo fight more people to understand how out of whack some of these BS with Cruse on them are vs. anything. they are not just out off balance they are out of whack is more the term to use, so I hope they are going to do these fixes that are worth something.. I cant fly any cal BS anymore.. I gotta eject them these days.. I am ashamed to fly a cal bs..


The Rokh is pretty good as a fleet ship.

So is the Scorpion.
But neither of those are missile ships, and the Scorpion isn't even really intended as a DPS platform anyway.
Not that I personally have any problem with that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#98 - 2013-01-10 12:13:28 UTC
GallowsCalibrator wrote:

I do still want a 8 launcher ship at some point though just to cover it with festival launchers and light up the sky.


If the Golem just weren't as expensive as it is now...

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
FluffyDice
Kronos Research
#99 - 2013-01-10 12:20:23 UTC
I remember testing the Naga with torps when it first hit singularity. It was terrible.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#100 - 2013-01-10 12:33:17 UTC
Something I could never understand, why just give it bonuses to the torps? Why couldn't it have been able to fit Cruise or Torps? You can fit Lg Autos or Arty to a Tornado, you can fit Lg Beam or Pulse to an Oracle, you can fit Lg Blasters or Rails to a Talos; but when they first designed the Naga it could only fit Torps, and thereby making it a brawler. It just didn't have the versatility the other tier 3s had at first.