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Shake EVE Up a Bit
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Verity Auger
House Heronmark
#1 - 2013-01-08 20:12:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Verity Auger
Too much power has been in the hands of too few people for far too long.

Nullsec needs a major shakeup. Smaller alliances cannot compete due to the momblob Catch-22 - if you don't have a momblob, you can't hold sov, if you don't hold sov you can't get a momblob, rinse and repeat, ad nauseum.

How can we fix this?

Easy. 2 step process.

1. Moon goos. All rare moon goos should deplete over time and respawn randomly across null and low sec moons.

2. Dreads. All dreads should receive a major buff to damage versus supercapitals and as well have their siege mode removed completely. Siege level damage though should remain. They are nerfed enough without siege mode being required, let's face it.

Results?

EVE becomes fresh again as any alliance can now field a weapon that can compete in nullsec with good teamwork.

The EVE economy gets shaken up as existing sov holders either have to move to chase the valuable goos, or allow others control over them for a period of time. (in some cases you might have to search for the rare goos and people might have a chance to make wild profits under the radar at least for a time. This is more fair than the current model in my opinion.)

My flamesuit is on.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#2 - 2013-01-08 20:32:39 UTC
Post with your main or GTFO.
Verity Auger
House Heronmark
#3 - 2013-01-08 20:36:52 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Post with your main or GTFO.


Nope. Anything intelligent to add?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2013-01-08 20:46:12 UTC
Verity Auger wrote:
Paikis wrote:
Post with your main or GTFO.


Nope. Anything intelligent to add?



Clearly you have never and will never leave highsec, so you have no business making suggestions about null.
Verity Auger
House Heronmark
#5 - 2013-01-08 20:52:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Verity Auger
Danika Princip wrote:
Verity Auger wrote:
Paikis wrote:
Post with your main or GTFO.


Nope. Anything intelligent to add?



Clearly you have never and will never leave highsec, so you have no business making suggestions about null.


Nope. Lived in null for years and years. Left because it became a pointless exercise in futility. Again, anything intelligent or constructive to add?
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-01-08 20:55:56 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Post with your main or GTFO.


Poasting with my super secret forum alt.

OP, transfering moon goo from moons to system wide belts would probably do more to get the money out of the hands of the few.

And I think the only way to give smaller orgs a chance without becoming meat sheilds is to make it take longer to get Cap/SuperCap fleets from one place to another.

Remove Jump Drives and allow Caps to use null/low gates, and SuperCaps to use null gates.
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#7 - 2013-01-08 20:58:09 UTC
Verity Auger wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Verity Auger wrote:
Paikis wrote:
Post with your main or GTFO.


Nope. Anything intelligent to add?



Clearly you have never and will never leave highsec, so you have no business making suggestions about null.


Nope. Lived in null for years and years. Left because it became a pointless exercise in futility. Again, anything intelligent or constructive to add?


train for super and join winning side

/thread
Verity Auger
House Heronmark
#8 - 2013-01-08 20:59:25 UTC
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
Paikis wrote:
Post with your main or GTFO.


Poasting with my super secret forum alt.

OP, transfering moon goo from moons to system wide belts would probably do more to get the money out of the hands of the few.

And I think the only way to give smaller orgs a chance without becoming meat sheilds is to make it take longer to get Cap/SuperCap fleets from one place to another.

Remove Jump Drives and allow Caps to use null/low gates, and SuperCaps to use null gates.


I hadn't thought of that, no jump drives. Interesting idea. Not sure what you mean about system wide belts?

I really prefer buffs to nerfs. Make the dread a viable weapons platform and you get a few good results. One, people are building dreads and using dreads. Two, more fights and more destruction. As opposed to a nerf which causes more limitations but doesn't necessarily cause any fights or any destruction.
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-01-08 21:02:27 UTC
Verity Auger wrote:
Not sure what you mean about system wide belts?



That is a feature CCP is planning to move the moo goo to sometime in the "soon" future.
Verity Auger
House Heronmark
#10 - 2013-01-08 21:04:35 UTC

train for super and join winning side

/thread[/quote]

This really doesn't solve anything. My main is fully trained for titan and supercapital (we used to call them momships.) The only way I would ever fly one again is by joining either Goons or TEST. Who else is a viable sovereignty holding entity out there really? And if you are a small group holding sov, you are relegated to the dregs and smashed utterly whenever Goons or TEST and their pets get bored. Hence the futility.

Why would anyone want to do something like that? I got to the point where I got tired of choking down the utter BS out there and had to leave. It almost ended the game for me right out.

A change like this would make everything different. And I believe, better. It's a sort of a reset I suppose. We have been in need of a reset for a long long time now. Maybe some of my old friends would come back to EVE, if they had a fair crack at a sandbox version of an end game.
Inmei T'ko
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-01-08 21:42:52 UTC
Sounds good to me. Combat dreads would be fun.

I wonder though if CCP wont like this because of concerns moving goos away from these big alliances would just expose their real revenue sources have nothing to do with valuable moon mining and everything to do with botting...
Sigras
Conglomo
#12 - 2013-01-08 21:58:21 UTC
The problem with deplete-able moons is it makes them less advantageous to attack.

Say for instance, every moon has 6 months of resources on it when it first spawns. Thats 78,000 isk / unit or 33 billion isk total on the moon.

Now if I find your moon thats half way through being depleted, i know that if I take it right now i can get a max of 16/17 billion out of it if I mine it the rest of the time. Am I going to risk 20-30 dreadnoughts + a support fleet to have a chance to take out something that will make me a max of 16 billion isk?

Also expect the price of trit and pyerite to go through the roof because everyone would have to scan every moon every downtime on the off chance that there is a new money moon that spawned somewhere in their space, and each discovery survey probe is like 9,500 trit

What the game needs to give smaller entities a chance against the blob is more AOE. Capital ships get shredded if unsupported against a large subcap fleet, if you had more effective ways of removing their support, you could force them to disengage.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-01-08 22:18:48 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Verity Auger wrote:
Paikis wrote:
Post with your main or GTFO.


Nope. Anything intelligent to add?



Clearly you have never and will never leave highsec, so you have no business making suggestions about null.


Same can be said about null sec guys blahblah'ing about high sec right?

How much is your post relevant to OP's thread legitimacy? -nothing, absolutely nothing. Tsk tsk tsk ....

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2013-01-09 00:36:55 UTC
Verity Auger wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Verity Auger wrote:
Paikis wrote:
Post with your main or GTFO.


Nope. Anything intelligent to add?



Clearly you have never and will never leave highsec, so you have no business making suggestions about null.


Nope. Lived in null for years and years. Left because it became a pointless exercise in futility. Again, anything intelligent or constructive to add?



But you're in an NPC school corp, so clearly you did no such thing.

Post with your main. Roll
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#15 - 2013-01-09 01:02:39 UTC
Nerfing a few top alliances could mean losing thousands of players interest, if you can find a way to shake it up, while avoiding that then by all means.

So far, CCP has done a major overhaul with the entire game, trick here now is to add many many new permanent players and then shuffle it up, when those few numbers wont matter any more.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#16 - 2013-01-09 01:34:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Felsusguy
Verity Auger wrote:
1. Moon goos. All rare moon goos should deplete over time and respawn randomly across null and low sec moons.

Ring mining is coming eventually. Also, this wouldn't help unless it was very very slow, predictable, and reversible. And no randomness. Randomness is not necessary for EVE.

Verity Auger wrote:
2. Dreads. All dreads should receive a major buff to damage versus supercapitals and as well have their siege mode removed completely. Siege level damage though should remain. They are nerfed enough without siege mode being required, let's face it.

Dreadnoughts do not need to be any better than they already are. They are perfect in siege mode, and aren't supposed to be perfect outside of it. Capital blobs are bad, we get it, but making dreadnoughts better will increase the hold of large alliances, because they can then much more easily take out lesser starbases of small corporations and tiny alliances that otherwise were too much trouble to go after.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Zanzbar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-01-09 01:36:28 UTC
I personally like the ring mining idea that was proposed at fanfest, move moon go to planetary rings that anybody can mine with some risk rather then letting big alliances farm a never ending flow of isk
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#18 - 2013-01-09 01:56:17 UTC
Zanzbar wrote:
I personally like the ring mining idea that was proposed at fanfest, move moon go to planetary rings that anybody can mine with some risk rather then letting big alliances farm a never ending flow of isk

That is certainly not what CCP proposed. They aren't moving moon goo, they are just providing another source of it.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Verity Auger
House Heronmark
#19 - 2013-01-09 02:27:40 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Verity Auger wrote:
1. Moon goos. All rare moon goos should deplete over time and respawn randomly across null and low sec moons.

Ring mining is coming eventually. Also, this wouldn't help unless it was very very slow, predictable, and reversible. And no randomness. Randomness is not necessary for EVE.

Verity Auger wrote:
2. Dreads. All dreads should receive a major buff to damage versus supercapitals and as well have their siege mode removed completely. Siege level damage though should remain. They are nerfed enough without siege mode being required, let's face it.

Dreadnoughts do not need to be any better than they already are. They are perfect in siege mode, and aren't supposed to be perfect outside of it. Capital blobs are bad, we get it, but making dreadnoughts better will increase the hold of large alliances, because they can then much more easily take out lesser starbases of small corporations and tiny alliances that otherwise were too much trouble to go after.


This is well written and concise and you make some good points.

I don't agree though that it wouldn't help by being random. I don't see the benefit in it being predictable. Why do you feel it would be better as slow and predictable? Too many things in EVE are already slow and predictable. I want fast and somewhat unpredictable for a change. :) for instance, you can predict quite clearly that no group can hold sovereignty without Goons permission right now and in future this situation will only get worse. The only alliance outside their powerbloc that remained as far as I could tell was -A- and even they are now about dead.

With regard to dreads the difference is quite clear. Anyone can build one. This is the entire hinge of the sov Catch-22. Not just anyone can build supers. Supers are too powerful and they need to be countered. The dread could be that weapon. If it became a problem for lowsec POS's owned by small groups (and really is this really happening much anymore? Even this seems to be under the major alliances' control most of the time it seems) then nerf dreads versus POSes. Much better to have a combat vessel than a silly giant gun that can't move in space (what?) and can't hit anything (double what?)

Just sayin'.
Verity Auger
House Heronmark
#20 - 2013-01-09 02:41:23 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Zanzbar wrote:
I personally like the ring mining idea that was proposed at fanfest, move moon go to planetary rings that anybody can mine with some risk rather then letting big alliances farm a never ending flow of isk

That is certainly not what CCP proposed. They aren't moving moon goo, they are just providing another source of it.


If you are adding more moon goo that is good I guess because it means reduced prices for goos. If this reduces the income for POSes though, and fuel prices remain high, then it becomes impossible to run the POSes required to mine the goos.

We had access to some rare moons in my former alliance and the fact was we barely broke even with what we were mining compared to the fuel costs, and this was long before fuel blocks came along.

Not sure how this will affect moon goos but there was another post there that hinted that the real source of major alliances' income may not be moon goos at all and I really wonder about that as well.
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