These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Market Discussions

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The Age Old Buy Order Mechanic That Needs To Change?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ariel J'Khan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-01-08 12:31:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Ariel J'Khan
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all my fellow space market bros.

Recently, I set up a buy order for an item selling for 60 million on the market. Now, unfortunately, I have less focus than a 5 year old ADHD kid who's high on Pixie sticks, and in my haste, I entered a buy order price somewhere in the region of 480 million.

Thankfully, the warning window kicked in, asking me to verify my stupidity and I gladly obliged by mis-clicking 'yes' instead of 'no'.

Now all space tears aside, I'd like to discuss why the buy order mechanic works in such a way as to overshoot the lowest sale order price and provide the seller with extra ISK over and above the amount he placed the sell order for? Is it not more logical to simply return the amount of ISK that overshoots the sell order price back to the player who is setting up the buy order? How difficult would it be for CCP to implement this? In the rare case a player wants to pay more than the sell price for an item, a player can donate the extra amount or make use of the robust contract system.

I've fallen prey to many a market scam in my time (bold gold lettering in Jita local is just so attractive to me) - but the only reason I raise this particular experience is because it seems to me that it is an issue with the market system, as opposed to a loss caused by the cunning efforts of another player (and I'm sure there have been players who have lost much more than a measly 480 mil to this silly mechanic).
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2 - 2013-01-08 13:34:23 UTC
Something similar happens in RL trading as well, and you don't even get a "are you sure" popup. You just lose all your money and that's it.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Oculi Magni
Disintegrate Crew
#3 - 2013-01-08 13:53:41 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Something similar happens in RL trading as well, and you don't even get a "are you sure" popup. You just lose all your money and that's it.


Yes, because we have to compare this game with real life.
Bob Killan
Dzark Asylum
#4 - 2013-01-08 14:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Bob Killan
Oculi Magni wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Something similar happens in RL trading as well, and you don't even get a "are you sure" popup. You just lose all your money and that's it.


Yes, because we have to compare this game with real life.



No but if you cannot understand the benefit of using RL experiences in game then you need to open your mind. Do you believe that all experiences are contextual and therefore applying a principle learnt in one scenario can never be valid in another.....good luck to you if so.

@ the OP nothing needs to change with the mechanics. It is what it is. A buy order or a Sell order, immediate or you can set up a standing order of up to 90 days. you have full control over the quantity to buy and sell and the price you buy and sell it for. Therefore the system does exactly as you tell it to.
Thankfully CCP understand the issues alcohol can create and added a warning if submitting a large order (high volume or price) which is more than ample warning.

If this mechanic isn't compatible, you can always turn the "advanced" option off then the order will be set to current buy or current sell price meaning you buy/sell your stuff immediately at the current market price and typing errors are averted
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-01-08 15:42:43 UTC
Your own responsibility AND a warning popup aren't enough?

Gimme a break, man.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Ariel J'Khan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-01-08 15:56:00 UTC
To be honest, I wasn't even aware the mechanic existed until I clicked the wrong button - and again, I don't really care about the loss (I made about 20mil off the lost amount in profits the next day on the market lol).

I'm just wondering why the mechanic is there in the first place, and whether it's actually a difficult thing to change for CCP.
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
#7 - 2013-01-08 16:10:31 UTC
You are wondering why there is a safety pop up mechanic, or why the game allows you to put in a buy order of 480 million for an item that sells for 80 million on the open market?

Honestly I don't think it really matters that much. I think if I park a 1990 camry in a parking lot and you have a sign up that says you will pay $18,000.00 for a 1990 Toyota Camry, and I walk up to you and say "Are you sure?", and you say yes, I will damn sure sell you that car and walk away with the money. Why should there be a mechanic to stop me from collecting $18,000.00 from someones mistake?
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#8 - 2013-01-08 16:21:40 UTC
In reality, this is what most new merchants have to go through as part of the learning curve.
basic google search for "eve learning curve" better believe it.

Think of it as playing a game on hard mode, easy mode can be played in Newbie systems, intermediate is highsec mission running or other highsec carebear activities, hard is where you first make your ways into trading and lowsec systems (its imminent).
Nightmare mode is when you first delve into real low/nulsec life, thats where the fun begins.

What if you would have lost only 10 million ISK, would you have posted here?

You should learn from your mistakes, atleast humor yourself a little bit and take this lesson with you into real life, Not paying attention could cause great loss, kind of like driving and talking on your cell phone.

Just be glad you learned a harsh lesson in a game, there are many more that await you, this is just the tip of the iceberg, this is a challenge, that's one of the awesome things about this game, a real challenge, will you survive?
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-01-08 16:53:10 UTC
it's to ensure that you are mentally present while putting up buy orders.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Yvormessier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-01-08 17:03:22 UTC
I once bought 4 caracals for 1.3b.

Red wine in copious quantities and Eve don't mixSad
Ariel J'Khan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-01-08 18:11:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ariel J'Khan
Kara Brookes wrote:
What if you would have lost only 10 million ISK, would you have posted here?

You should learn from your mistakes, atleast humor yourself a little bit and take this lesson with you into real life, Not paying attention could cause great loss, kind of like driving and talking on your cell phone.


Wow... you really didn't pick up on any humour in the original post? I'll say it again: I'm really not concerned about the loss - you guys shouldn't be either. Also, not only would I have posted this if it was a loss of 10 mil, I would have posted here if it was it was the same situation in reverse.


Toku Jiang wrote:

Honestly I don't think it really matters that much. I think if I park a 1990 camry in a parking lot and you have a sign up that says you will pay $18,000.00 for a 1990 Toyota Camry, and I walk up to you and say "Are you sure?", and you say yes, I will damn sure sell you that car and walk away with the money. Why should there be a mechanic to stop me from collecting $18,000.00 from someones mistake?


And you'd have every damn right to walk away with the money. However, to make the analogy more precise, you don't really ask me anything, all you do, is put up a sell order for your camry for say, $2000, and you get a sweet surprise of $18,000 in your bank account - which is fine too, you're still entitled to the cash.


The question is; what purpose does the system serve in being geared towards the seller in this way? Or more over - why should the system favor the seller over the buyer? Again, it seems more logical to me for the system to return any ISK that overshoots the lowest sell order price to the player setting up the buy order (whether that be 0.01 ISK or 1 Trillion ISK). This way, no player is worse off for the transaction (seller gets the amount he wanted for the item, and buyer pays what he wanted for the item).
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#12 - 2013-01-08 19:51:27 UTC
Ariel J'Khan wrote:
To be honest, I wasn't even aware the mechanic existed until I clicked the wrong button - and again, I don't really care about the loss (I made about 20mil off the lost amount in profits the next day on the market lol).

I'm just wondering why the mechanic is there in the first place, and whether it's actually a difficult thing to change for CCP.


so we are talking about the "mechanic" of entering the bid price for a buy order?

there is no problem with the market here. An item is worth what you are willing to pay for it. And in this case you were willing to pay ~400,000,000 for it

yes
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#13 - 2013-01-08 20:02:52 UTC
400mil loss is a weeks whatever. Not exactly a wrist slit moment.

Just don't leave 20bil in the one wallet, or even in a wallet you use to trade from if you are prone to making data entry mistakes, and then ignoring warnings.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#14 - 2013-01-08 20:27:33 UTC
Ariel J'Khan wrote:
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all my fellow space market bros.

Recently, I set up a buy order for an item selling for 60 million on the market. Now, unfortunately, I have less focus than a 5 year old ADHD kid who's high on Pixie sticks, and in my haste, I entered a buy order price somewhere in the region of 480 million.

Thankfully, the warning window kicked in, asking me to verify my stupidity and I gladly obliged by mis-clicking 'yes' instead of 'no'.

Now all space tears aside, I'd like to discuss why the buy order mechanic works in such a way as to overshoot the lowest sale order price and provide the seller with extra ISK over and above the amount he placed the sell order for? Is it not more logical to simply return the amount of ISK that overshoots the sell order price back to the player who is setting up the buy order? How difficult would it be for CCP to implement this? In the rare case a player wants to pay more than the sell price for an item, a player can donate the extra amount or make use of the robust contract system.

I've fallen prey to many a market scam in my time (bold gold lettering in Jita local is just so attractive to me) - but the only reason I raise this particular experience is because it seems to me that it is an issue with the market system, as opposed to a loss caused by the cunning efforts of another player (and I'm sure there have been players who have lost much more than a measly 480 mil to this silly mechanic).



Say I want 200 Light Widget Is, but all the Light Widget Is on sell orders are in stacks of 1, .01 ISK away from each other. With this mechanic, I can buy all 200 by setting a buy order at the 200th lowest price. The buy order fills from all 200 sell orders, I lose out on about 10 ISK, and I don't have to click "buy" 200 times.

Buy orders are offering to pay X ISK for the item. The broker filled your request.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Spence Deninard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-01-08 23:53:48 UTC
While the loss isn't the issue and the mechanics are for you, you should check your transactions and send them a nice eve mail advising of the mistake. Don't demand anything just advise and the other party may even return part of the error funds. Can't hurt to try, I think there are a lot of nice Eve players out there.
Bob Killan
Dzark Asylum
#16 - 2013-01-09 09:36:46 UTC
Ariel J'Khan wrote:


The question is; what purpose does the system serve in being geared towards the seller in this way? Or more over - why should the system favor the seller over the buyer? Again, it seems more logical to me for the system to return any ISK that overshoots the lowest sell order price to the player setting up the buy order (whether that be 0.01 ISK or 1 Trillion ISK). This way, no player is worse off for the transaction (seller gets the amount he wanted for the item, and buyer pays what he wanted for the item).


The system serves a simple purpose to match buyers with sellers. It's not made to be a financial advisor, it doesn't think and it certainly doesnt hold anyones hand or favour 1 particular person over another.

You lost out this time, but as with everything where there is a winner there is a loser the reverse happens with buy orders. You can place a buy order for 10 widgets at 1,000,000 ISK if someone later makes a sell order for 1,000 ISK I get my widgets cheaper.