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Freighter Madness
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#41 - 2013-01-08 16:10:21 UTC
Jonfear wrote:
Before starting this post, I want to make this clear. I’m not advocating that Freighters should be ungankable.
Blowing up ships is part of the game. Big smile

The freighter needs a buff. But it would also be great lols to see a freighter with 8 turret slots and mids for webs. A freighter with teeth.

Not falling for it.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Zilero
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2013-01-08 16:11:44 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
Zilero wrote:

So because they can't defend themselves they should be invincible?

They are invicible now? Shocked i must missed some patch notes or something


The problem is with the undock invincibility timer vs. when the game allows you to jump.

You can jump out before you are lockable. Sorry, but that's just wrong.

(I'm not calling for an EHP nerf or being able to instapop a JF using an ibis - but being able to jump without being lockable is just wrong).
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#43 - 2013-01-08 16:14:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Shadowschild wrote:
The problem with any mmorpg, every time they introduce a new class, race or in this case a ship. Is that you have a certain balance issue to iron out over time. The players in eve found a way to use the Tier 3 BC to pop freighters easily. So in resoponse, it's resonable to buff freighters one way or another.

…except that tier3s didn't make it easier to gank freighters, so there is no reason to respod to that addition. In fact, it could be argued that the tier-3s were themselves a response to the imbalance caused by the removal of suicide insurance. Freighters are almost perfect the way they are, and nerfing them by adding a lowslot is just as pointless as buffing them as a response to a restoration of proper balance.
Kinis Deren
Mosquito Squadron
D0GS OF WAR
#44 - 2013-01-08 16:22:51 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Kinis Deren wrote:
That seems a reasonable compromise IMHO - let the pilot of the freighter strike a balance between the risk versus reward rather than essentially have a fitting imposed upon them.

That sould just be a needless nerf to the entire class. A better silution would be to allow them both high EHP and high cargo at the same time. I.e. by leaving them as they are.


Hmmm, but if we followed that logic, no ship in New Eden would ever be changed and we wouldn't have had the awesome ship rebalancing of recent times Sad
Othran
Route One
#45 - 2013-01-08 16:26:10 UTC
Shadowschild wrote:
The problem with any mmorpg, every time they introduce a new class, race or in this case a ship. Is that you have a certain balance issue to iron out over time. The players in eve found a way to use the Tier 3 BC to pop freighters easily. So in resoponse, it's resonable to buff freighters one way or another. Perhaps a single lowslot to either carry more cargo (at the risk of being ganked even easier), damage control for survivability or speed/agility again, at a cost of hull hp.


T3 BCs have made alpha'ing a JF possible. Killing freighters has always been possible.
Ra Jackson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2013-01-08 16:33:51 UTC
Zilero wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
Zilero wrote:

So because they can't defend themselves they should be invincible?

They are invicible now? Shocked i must missed some patch notes or something


The problem is with the undock invincibility timer vs. when the game allows you to jump.

You can jump out before you are lockable. Sorry, but that's just wrong.

(I'm not calling for an EHP nerf or being able to instapop a JF using an ibis - but being able to jump without being lockable is just wrong).


Unless you can afford to buy a new Jump Freighter for every journey out of your market hub you still have to fly it back somehow..
Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
The Whale Hunters Association
#47 - 2013-01-08 16:34:08 UTC
Othran wrote:
Shadowschild wrote:
The problem with any mmorpg, every time they introduce a new class, race or in this case a ship. Is that you have a certain balance issue to iron out over time. The players in eve found a way to use the Tier 3 BC to pop freighters easily. So in resoponse, it's resonable to buff freighters one way or another. Perhaps a single lowslot to either carry more cargo (at the risk of being ganked even easier), damage control for survivability or speed/agility again, at a cost of hull hp.


T3 BCs have made alpha'ing a JF possible. Killing freighters has always been possible.



er?

and you coudnt alpha jf before Tier 3 bc's?
Othran
Route One
#48 - 2013-01-08 16:42:50 UTC
Zilero wrote:
The real problem with jump freighters is that they are WAY too safe.

In fact, their ability to jump OUT of hisec should be nerfed.

We are talking about the ONLY ship that can undock from a station in hisec and move several systems over without ever being lockable or in any danger as it can jump to a cyno before the invulnerability from undocking runs out....

This is in effect a 100% negation of a wardec making it possible for you to sustain a war effort without ever being in danger of losing your ship.


Then you take them on the cyno chain (kill/bubble cyno) or the route back in when they're slowboating. JFs can't carry that much anyway and nerfing them achieves little - other than to screw up small corp logistics.

Kill an empty JF and that's 6-7bill or so.
Othran
Route One
#49 - 2013-01-08 16:43:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Lilan Kahn wrote:
Othran wrote:
Shadowschild wrote:
The problem with any mmorpg, every time they introduce a new class, race or in this case a ship. Is that you have a certain balance issue to iron out over time. The players in eve found a way to use the Tier 3 BC to pop freighters easily. So in resoponse, it's resonable to buff freighters one way or another. Perhaps a single lowslot to either carry more cargo (at the risk of being ganked even easier), damage control for survivability or speed/agility again, at a cost of hull hp.


T3 BCs have made alpha'ing a JF possible. Killing freighters has always been possible.



er?

and you coudnt alpha jf before Tier 3 bc's?



Depends how much you wanted to spend on high-sec ganks.

Edit - perhaps a better word would be practical - as in T3 BCs have made alpha'ing a JF practical.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#50 - 2013-01-08 16:49:04 UTC
Ra Jackson wrote:
Zilero wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
Zilero wrote:

So because they can't defend themselves they should be invincible?

They are invicible now? Shocked i must missed some patch notes or something


The problem is with the undock invincibility timer vs. when the game allows you to jump.

You can jump out before you are lockable. Sorry, but that's just wrong.

(I'm not calling for an EHP nerf or being able to instapop a JF using an ibis - but being able to jump without being lockable is just wrong).


Unless you can afford to buy a new Jump Freighter for every journey out of your market hub you still have to fly it back somehow..

This!

Yes, they can take 1 load out of high sec... but then how do they get back? Hmmmmm..... Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#51 - 2013-01-08 16:53:31 UTC
Othran wrote:
Shadowschild wrote:
The problem with any mmorpg, every time they introduce a new class, race or in this case a ship. Is that you have a certain balance issue to iron out over time. The players in eve found a way to use the Tier 3 BC to pop freighters easily. So in resoponse, it's resonable to buff freighters one way or another. Perhaps a single lowslot to either carry more cargo (at the risk of being ganked even easier), damage control for survivability or speed/agility again, at a cost of hull hp.


T3 BCs have made alpha'ing a JF possible. Killing freighters has always been possible.


Indeed.

I'm also curious as you say 3 Talos can easily gank a freighter before Concord recovers from being led away and gets into the action.

However I personally have had my relatively low skill freighter alt attacked in .6 by 5 Talos and survived with over 30% structure. It took Concord quite some time to respond, so I have little doubt they were pulled away first, and the Talos were at pretty much the perfect range and stationary when they attacked.

While it is probably possible with the right fits and enough ISK invested, for your average freighter gank I think your estimate of how many it would take is a bit off.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#52 - 2013-01-08 16:54:51 UTC
Yeah dude, these kills are from war decs. Those people that killed them just watch the pipes for frighters. They dont even chase after people. Just wait and shoot blinky red.

Nothing to see here ladies and gents.
Othran
Route One
#53 - 2013-01-08 16:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Ranger 1 wrote:
Othran wrote:
Shadowschild wrote:
The problem with any mmorpg, every time they introduce a new class, race or in this case a ship. Is that you have a certain balance issue to iron out over time. The players in eve found a way to use the Tier 3 BC to pop freighters easily. So in resoponse, it's resonable to buff freighters one way or another. Perhaps a single lowslot to either carry more cargo (at the risk of being ganked even easier), damage control for survivability or speed/agility again, at a cost of hull hp.


T3 BCs have made alpha'ing a JF possible. Killing freighters has always been possible.


Indeed.

I'm also curious as you say 3 Talos can easily gank a freighter before Concord recovers from being led away and gets into the action.


I think you're replying to someone else there.

AFAIK deliberately "baiting" Concorde is an exploit, as are all other methods of deliberately delaying/enhancing Concorde response (ie you're dead).
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#54 - 2013-01-08 16:59:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Zilero wrote:
So because they can't defend themselves they should be invincible? Sorry not gonna cut it.

If you want to pickup supplies in hisec and you are wardecced, you can bring a fleet to protect your assets, not this "I am 100% safe in my JF because I can jump from hisec without ever being lockable".


I don't get it, if they were invincible there wouldn't be any JF kills...

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Alara IonStorm
#55 - 2013-01-08 17:06:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Othran wrote:

Depends how much you wanted to spend on high-sec ganks.

Edit - perhaps a better word would be practical - as in T3 BCs have made alpha'ing a JF practical.

Megathron / Tempest + Insurance = Talos / Tornado - Insurance, I see no added practical here with Tier 3 Gankers.
Othran
Route One
#56 - 2013-01-08 17:09:51 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Othran wrote:

Depends how much you wanted to spend on high-sec ganks.

Edit - perhaps a better word would be practical - as in T3 BCs have made alpha'ing a JF practical.

Megathron / Tempest + Insurance = Talos / Megathron - Insurance, I see no added practical here with Tier 3 Gankers.


Fair enough, I never saw it happen with BSs and I have (several times) with Tornados.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#57 - 2013-01-08 17:13:23 UTC
Othran wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Othran wrote:
Shadowschild wrote:
The problem with any mmorpg, every time they introduce a new class, race or in this case a ship. Is that you have a certain balance issue to iron out over time. The players in eve found a way to use the Tier 3 BC to pop freighters easily. So in resoponse, it's resonable to buff freighters one way or another. Perhaps a single lowslot to either carry more cargo (at the risk of being ganked even easier), damage control for survivability or speed/agility again, at a cost of hull hp.


T3 BCs have made alpha'ing a JF possible. Killing freighters has always been possible.


Indeed.

I'm also curious as you say 3 Talos can easily gank a freighter before Concord recovers from being led away and gets into the action.


I think you're replying to someone else there.

AFAIK deliberately "baiting" Concorde is an exploit, as are all other methods of deliberately delaying/enhancing Concorde response (ie you're dead).


Sorry, I said "you" when I was referring to someone elses assertion. I intended to agree with you on the point you made and address the other assertion made by others with the latter part of my post.

Sorry for the confusion.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Othran
Route One
#58 - 2013-01-08 17:15:58 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Sorry for the confusion.


No problem, its that sort of thread really Lol
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-01-08 17:16:49 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
They warent ganked it is a efect of war dec, suspect flag or a public kill rights



You only need 1 sec or bad click to look like an idiot, and everyone experienced that at some point while playing. Dumb stuff happens, which is good for the game in general and sometimes hilarious.

But yep, most of those kills are probably wardec targets/suspects/kill rights. (all dumb stuff hehe)

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#60 - 2013-01-08 17:23:51 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Ra Jackson wrote:
Zilero wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
Zilero wrote:

So because they can't defend themselves they should be invincible?

They are invicible now? Shocked i must missed some patch notes or something


The problem is with the undock invincibility timer vs. when the game allows you to jump.

You can jump out before you are lockable. Sorry, but that's just wrong.

(I'm not calling for an EHP nerf or being able to instapop a JF using an ibis - but being able to jump without being lockable is just wrong).


Unless you can afford to buy a new Jump Freighter for every journey out of your market hub you still have to fly it back somehow..

This!

Yes, they can take 1 load out of high sec... but then how do they get back? Hmmmmm..... Smile

Show me the profit in killing an empty JF