Player Features and Ideas Discussion

As a new player I see alot of question about loaning money.
At the moment there is no way to safely lend anyone money and get interest from that deal.

I would like to see loan contract so players can loan money for a monthly/yearly interest.
This will also create a new way to live your life in EVE Universe as a banker or something like that.

Could be like this.

Player who wants to loan ISK contact a banker or another player and creates a contract with the amount of ISK needed and an insurance for the banker and the agreed monthly/yearly fees etc.
If the contract can't be payed for each month, the insurance should pay out to the banker or player that lend the money to the loan taker.

It should also be possible to put a not yet bought item as the insurance so the player can get a new ship or what they need.
In this case there shouldn't be an ISK transfer but instead a direct transfer from the deal in the store.

There is a need to change the way we can buy things from the store so that a deal can be waiting for the loan contract to be closed.


Think this is good for ISK spreading, right now there is a few players sitting on really huge ISK that they could loan to others like in the real world.

There need to be some form of risk included even for the banker ofcourse, it could be like that if the insured item(s) is destroyed banker loose all but the insurance ISK for the items insured.
Maybe it should be forced that a banker transport the money to the loan takers HQ etc just to add a little risk in lending huge amounts of ISK.

This is just a rough printing from what I would like to have in contracts in EVE.


/FN

Yeah, I tried writing to Bill Gates asking for a loan. He hasn't got back to me yet but I am staying hopeful.
This idea is totally unworkable, as the poster above says just create alt, borrow a bil, transfer to main, biomass alt.

I was pre-empting some of the OP's potential responses and "solutions"

Sorry dude, there really is no way for this to work without CCP some how changing the overall nature of the game. Right now if you were to go and borrow money (IRL) and did not pay it back it would follow you around like a bad odor for years. Your credit rating is adversely impacted, you might have your wages garnished, etc. But as others have pointed out there are ways around this in game such as borrowing, transferring the isk and then biomassing the alt. Or even having a cyno alt with a crappy wallet is not a big deal...it is after all only a cyno alt. Maybe if "physical" assets are routinely confiscated to pay the debt, but then go with option 1 that includes biomassing. Now maybe if biomassing is not allowed with characters that have a negative wallet balance....even still I could see people setting up an account, using the 3 slots, then letting the account expire. Rinse and repeat.

This could be made to work just fine, I think:

When you make a loan contract as the borrower:
1) Your character is locked, and cannot be biomassed until the loan is entirely repaid.
2) If you miss payments, the bank will automatically liquidate your assets to pay the lender. It does this by just selling your stuff wherever it is at the highest buy bid. If there is no buy bid, then it auto-generates special "repo" missions that other players can take, where they move the stuff to any market that will buy it, for a % cut of the value obtained. Regardless of whether local buy orders exist though, the original owner loses possession as soon as a repo mission or a liquidation is generated.
3) If you don't have any assets on one character, the game will begin pulling money from the wallets and/or liquidating assets on other characters on that same account to meet payments.

This way, the only method for getting out of a loan would be to entirely abandon a whole account. But even just activating an account in the first place costs about 400 million isk worth of real life money, so people could lend up to that amount even on fresh accounts without worrying too much.

Also, remember that there is an API for character info. If I were a lender, I would require you to send me API info on the amount of time your characters/account have been active, at the very least, and number of SP. If you've had the account for a year and have actively training chars., etc., I might safely loan you billions.



That would work. I make no comment however on whether it would in fact be fun, or a good idea.

those restrictions would only create a false sense of security to investors.

1) Accept large loan

2) offload money and abandon account**

the lender will never see the money again at this point, and all of the security you listed has been bypassed and nullified.

The only way for a loan system to work is if CCP gave it the same restrictions as a character sale. Where you would be banned, and even subjected to criminal charges IRL potentially if you scam someone on a character transfer.

and the chances of them doing that are about 0.


**If the loan was large enough it would be profitable to PLEX account into "full" status. With the intent of abandoning it. for example, your loan is for 800,000,000 I make a new account, buy a plex for 550,000,000 and activate the account.
I accept your loan, send the money back to a main at a profit of 250,000,000

So you are left with 2 possibilities

1) the knowledge that if your loan is greater than the cost of a plex your chance of being scammed is about 100%

2) Loans enforced by CCP on the same level as a character transfer. And not being a true game-play mechanic.

basically. And that is why money lending never real took off in eve. Its the only way the lender does not get screwed over, sometimes.

However Collateral itself has/had issues. I recall lots of loan services back in 2009. Just real picky with collateral. You'd think the dreaded (to some) t2 bpo's would be no bs guarantee of a big loan. Nope. What the owner thought they were worth and the lender usually quite different. And a good lender also knew if defaulted on that bpo sale to get money back wasn't so easy.

For less exotic items you had the fickle nature of the market. Give a worst case here. I put up a mach for a 1.6 bil loan. Out the blue a month later CCP nerfs the mach hard and they drop to rattler prices. Even the most honest borrower is going to be tempted to go well.....if I default on my loan with only 200 mil paid off I make out pretty good. Especially when if he is honest and pays off the whole loan his 1.6 billion mach now costs say 1.8 bil with interest and then has to sell if for half the price he paid originally if he sells it. Leaves the lender with it, well he walks away with nice profit.

Well that and the premise of getting loans generally violates the prime rule of eve, don't fly what you can't afford to lose. I'll modify it to don't buy anything you can't afford to lose. taking out a 2 bil loan to buy say a pimp faction pos setup and other materials to start your t2 business up is jsut a bad way to start up imo.

You seem to have two different methods molded into one. It's either an official CCP-run loan service (which can lock accounts or characters from being biomassed, and must run on some kind of "rules" rather than personal evaluation of a client's profitability), or it's a player run service (for which the banker checks the API and decides whether to accept or reject the customer). If it's player run, well, just google "eve investment bank".

If it's CCP run and follows these rules that you made, I do this. Again there are much simpler ways to circumvent your system but I am going to give a foolproof way of circumventing all things you could possibly say.

Send buddy invite to myself, create new character.
Give it some ISK, buy a PLEX and activate it. I am now 570 mil down, but have 51 days play/training time available on the account.
Make 2 more characters on the buddy account.
Train all 3 chars up to fly a small but expensive ship (eg. Dramiel, Daredevil etc)
Each alt gets a loan of 1 bil and buys as many of those ships as he can.
Alt undocks, flies to safe spot, ejects from ship, main boards it and docks. Rinse and repeat.
Main sells huge stack of ships for 3 bil (minus a bit of margin maybe but who cares).
Buddy account locked from being biomassed, has black marks all over the characters and all his rookie ships are confiscated. But who cares, it's deactivated after 51 days and I never need to touch it again.

So how would your system counter that?

This: I like.

I also really like the "character goes up for escrow" idea as well, I'd totally loan a 20-30Mil SP player a few bil, if I get the character if they fail to meet the terms of the contract.

Beyond that though, the tools are already in place to check the "creditworthiness" of most players, (with an API check)
If the character is 2 weeks old, and has "20 successful sell orders" I ain't loaning him more than a few thousand ISK. :P

Yes, there's room for abuse: as there should be.

No system will be failsafe but I hear the need for some way of loaning ISK.
Right now there are just thousands of scammers just because there isn't a loaning system at all.


/FN