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How EVE Became Obsolete (And why CCP hasn’t noticed)

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#261 - 2013-01-08 11:39:29 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:


Don't you hate it when the 40-year-old-pizza-eating-virgin gets their quote tags right the first time instead of having to double post because they don't know what the edit button is for?

FYI, I'm 29, a qualified chef (coincidentally, specialising in Italian), and not a virgin. Single, yes, but only by nature and choice. Definitely not a virgin though... although I sure as hell wish I was.


You have no idea how hard it is for me to resist making a crude commen-does it itch?
Le Badass
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#262 - 2013-01-08 12:04:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Le Badass wrote:

Of course bigger machines will have more computing power, but not everybody will feel the need to have a decomissioned aircraft hangar plastered with organic LEDs and an electrode attached to their wieners for max power gaming.

BTW, touch technology was an example of what the future might bring, but with that said, it's only hard in the long run if you're a 40 year old, pizza-eating virgin who never exercises :-P

EDIT: Stoopid quote tags :rolleyes:


Some games are not compatible with touch screen and they just happen to be the best sellers.


I have to agree with this... For now.
I guess the difference between us right now is that you seem to completely reject the idea that this may change in the future.
But either way, I'm not arguing specifically for touch tech - That will probably only be a supplement in a game like Eve. The whole argument is, the way I see it, whether mobile devices will get a significant part of the gaming market (including Eve), and I believe that it will.
Apparently I share this view with the management and R&D departments of such companies as NVidia, Samsung, Nokia, HTC, etc...
I guess we're all wrong :)
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#263 - 2013-01-08 12:09:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
baltec1 wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:


Don't you hate it when the 40-year-old-pizza-eating-virgin gets their quote tags right the first time instead of having to double post because they don't know what the edit button is for?

FYI, I'm 29, a qualified chef (coincidentally, specialising in Italian), and not a virgin. Single, yes, but only by nature and choice. Definitely not a virgin though... although I sure as hell wish I was.


You have no idea how hard it is for me to resist making a crude commen-does it itch?


Sex makes me feel really gross... but I used to do it just because the girl I was with at the time would want it. I've had eight sexual partners, total. And apparently, I'm quite talented, but I wouldn't be able to confirm this unless you were a woman, and I wouldn't want to anymore anyway. It's why I avoid relationships now - not one of my exes realised how much I compromised for their pleasure based on how I felt about them at the time, and I'm just not willing to put myself through that again...


But this is REALLY off topic. Like.... there is so much digression going on here, I'm surprised it hasn't made the actual topic obsolete. OP needs to change title P

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Le Badass
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#264 - 2013-01-08 12:20:17 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

These are both examples of ad hominem attacks. I may be asexual, but I'm not a virgin. You're making assumptions and one of those is that a pizza-eating 40 year old virgin might not be smarter than you. It just so happens, I love pizza, but as I understand it, touch-tech has never been intended to replace the keyboard, but rather, it is an alternative to it on devices that are too small to utilise a keyboard effectively. Even then, I still prefer an actual keypad on a phone to a touch screen. I had a touch screen once, being the not-adverse-to-trying-new-things person that I am, and it was terrible. I'd be wiping the thing clear of grime every five minutes just so I could see the time.


The first argument about your ranting was because you kept making patronizing comments about what you think I might be able to understand.
The second was a reference to TharOka's post where he used the concept of the 40 year old pizza eating virgin the first time and meant as a joke, so chill out man.


Remiel Pollard wrote:

Don't you hate it when the 40-year-old-pizza-eating-virgin gets their quote tags right the first time instead of having to double post because they don't know what the edit button is for?

FYI, I'm 29, a qualified chef (coincidentally, specialising in Italian), and not a virgin. Single, yes, but only by nature and choice. Definitely not a virgin though... although I sure as hell wish I was.


I don't even want to know what the bolded part is supposed to mean. If you got traumatized, I can only advise you to seek professional help.

Apart from that, you seem very eager to flaunt your CV. I noticed that in the miner bumping thread as well.
I don't really care what you do for a living. People on the internet seem to think that their education in itself is an argument sometimes. Is this one of those times?

Finally, regarding the whole quote-tag-affair, it wasn't my fault, the board is just badly programmed. (J/K).
Now, go make me a sandwich (J/K again! Sorry, couldn't help it since you're a cook).
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#265 - 2013-01-08 14:42:57 UTC
Le Badass wrote:


I don't even want to know what the bolded part is supposed to mean. If you got traumatized, I can only advise you to seek professional help.

Apart from that, you seem very eager to flaunt your CV. I noticed that in the miner bumping thread as well.
I don't really care what you do for a living. People on the internet seem to think that their education in itself is an argument sometimes. Is this one of those times?



Doesn't matter, it's all irrelevant. I know that what I do is irrelevant to this game. I only 'flaunt' when people assume to know something about me. As for the part you bolded - as I've mentioned, I'm asexual. It's also irrelevant, but prudent when people call me a 'virgin' as if that means something.

Also.... BBCode is not that hard to grasp.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
#266 - 2013-01-08 14:49:26 UTC
Le Badass wrote:
Reiisha wrote:


I don't see triple 22" screen tablets, or did i miss something?

How do i lack vision when my visible workspace is over 9 times as large as yours? ;p


In ten years, your gaming experience will still consist of you sitting at a desk with a giant lump of metal at your feet, heating your house and driving your 22" monitors.
Mine might be three 22" wall mounted touch screens which connect wirelessly to my phone the moment I walk through the door.
I will, of course, already be online on my 3.2" phone screen, updating orders, fitting ships and communicating with my corp mates, but now I have it all at the tips of my fingers and is ready to undock and fight.
Or maybe I'll put on my tracking gloves and VR glasses and be immersed in a full 360 degree space environment. Who knows?
Have fun sitting on your old pizza-stained office chair clicking the same, tired keyboard combinations on your triple 22" rig :)



Hahahaha. Big smile Ya right.
Spaceman Jack
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#267 - 2013-01-08 15:20:58 UTC
Perfect example of how having more data is irrelevant in the face of terrible analysis.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#268 - 2013-01-08 15:42:44 UTC
You know what would be nice...

If CCP made iPhone/Android apps that let you log in to set your skills, station trade, research, manufacturing, and maybe even some PI.

If they were really awesome they'd make a tablet version of the game so you could fly using an iPad.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Doc Severiide
Doomheim
#269 - 2013-01-08 16:30:10 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Linux, the underdog. Still better than any other OS out there IMO.

Nope...

The only real OS out there is z/OS, OS/390 or what is refered to at MVS....

Any other Mainframe Guru here who uses any other platform as a comparision will know exactly what I mean...
PalkAn4ik
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#270 - 2013-01-08 17:34:16 UTC
The desktop market has reached maturity and is saturated, but it is not going away. The tablet/handheld market is growing, but much of that is because they can also double as cellphones and remote controls.

They are great for farmville style games, but it will be a long time before tablet can replace a keyboard and mouse for FPS games. Keyboards and mice are still superior input devices and it's not "either/or". A game can be made to use both, but you'll be gimping yourself by not using the best.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#271 - 2013-01-08 18:04:56 UTC
So, in the end of all this smart discussion what does it means?

I should have Win XP if I want to play eve decently because of some nerds not able to move forward?

I should keep paying for a game with huge performance issues with my OS just because I'm a good guy?

My answer for both is yes, of course. Lol

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Lucius Petrahm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#272 - 2013-01-08 18:55:14 UTC
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
- The future of traditional x86 and x64 PC architecture is increasingly vague. Laptops have been outselling desktop systems for years, but tablet sales are gaining exponentially. A whopping 122 million ARM-based tablets and smartphones sold in 2012.


Among PC gamers? Who abandoned their PC? Did they hock it at the pawnshop so they could buy a new SG3 or Iphone 5?

Quote:
- Within two years, ARM devices will account for more than half of all personal computer sales.


Tell Sony and Microsoft, too - quick! How could they have not seen this?

Quote:
- 97% of those devices will employ touch as their primary input. A full 50% will support gesture input and 10% will natively display stereoscopic 3D.


Touch is a severely limited form of input, and it will not be feasible for use in several genres. Eve requires a lot of keybinds to play well - unless.... you're bad.

Quote:
- The PC gaming industry has little appetite for Windows 8, as evidenced by leaders such as Valve Software. Valve is currently backing an aggressive transition to Steam for Linux, with a repository of 40 games and counting already available to open-source users. Valve is also throwing support behind Oculus Rift, a revolutionary developing virtual reality system.


That's because Valve is making a Linux-based console.

Quote:
All this points to something CCP isn't admitting: their flagship game title could soon become too damn inconvenient to play if it remains bound for all time to traditional PCs.

For the moment, EVE’s subscribers are loyal and (on the whole) pleased with the status quo. CCP just completed their 18th successful expansion, filling EVE with upgrades and goodies ranging from simplified combat functions to baffling trading cards. Players are heavily invested in EVE, emotionally, financially, and otherwise.

But ARM and other mobile technologies are maturing fast, with multi-core processors, dedicated GPUs, and beautiful multi-touch displays claiming long-established PC territory, both in performance and sales. As our PCs age, we will replace them with touch-based multipurpose tablets, hybrid smartphones, and lord-knows-what other concoctions of techno-wizardry. Those who do choose a traditional PC may find Windows taking a backseat to Ubuntu and other platforms. The fact that these devices refuse to run EVE-Online will not deter us from choosing the device suited to our increasingly busy and mobile lives.


Not really. Eve's graphics on a PC trounce anything you could put on a touchscreen (and when that changes, Samsung plants will be produced high-density LCD panels not only for smartphones, but also for desktop dispalys - so the point is rather moot), and PC gamers, on the whole, don't choose to buy a mobile device and trash their PC.

You've no point here. If you're currently playing and subbed, then you have a PC that is capable of it. Even if something else came and usurped the PC - which it won't - in the lifetime of Eve, then you'd still have your same PC that could play it, barring a huge graphics update.

I can understand if folks want mobile connectivity and / or features or support for linux / osx, but basing the reasoning for it on the impending freefall of PCs into obscurity is just... well, it's not the most effective way to make a point.
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#273 - 2013-01-08 19:02:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Schneider
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
Stuff


As someone who uses a tablet regularly, I can say that at the moment gaming on a tablet is no substitute for gaming on a PC, although that might change in the future. A touch interface is fine for most day to day use but for gaming, IMHO, it sucks.

Eve runs fine in most OS's & on most modern PC platforms, OS X is still supported, Wine allows you to play it on Linux with minimal setup.

Personally I'd say CCP is ahead of the curve when it comes to multiple OS support, most major developers treat OS X and Linux as the antichrist and only support windows. It would be nice to see a native Linux client again though.


http://houseofd.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/linux_vs_pc_mac.jpg Big smile


Linux, the underdog. Still better than any other OS out there IMO.

Being "better" has nothing to do with it.

Not going to start an OS debate, that's been done a million times already and no one ever wins. The point being, from business and development standpoint it's always more practical to design a software or a game, especially an MMO, heavily towards the most common platform used by the market base.

Are Linux or any Unix based systems better than windows in this case? no, definitely not. Why? because no matter how you try to spin it, Linux, is not for everyone. Unless there's a single corp or distro that rises above all else in terms of packaging, distribution, support and simplicity and on par with Windows on those areas, it just won't happen; and seeing Linux is an open source platform, well, it makes it even more unlikely.

Being "better" aren't always enough, people use Windows because quite simply, everyone's using it. People aren't going to switch to a different OS just because the next version of Windows is an utter crap, they'll just stick to their old one just because they're used to it (and no, your case doesn't represent the consumer base, statistics does). It's an OS, not a gadget. heck, even people who uses XP (current least used version of Windows today) are five times more common than every single Linux users from every single distros combined, even after ten years.

In short, your arguments is only this, nothing more.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#274 - 2013-01-08 19:10:44 UTC
Doc Severiide wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Linux, the underdog. Still better than any other OS out there IMO.

Nope...

The only real OS out there is z/OS, OS/390 or what is refered to at MVS....

Any other Mainframe Guru here who uses any other platform as a comparision will know exactly what I mean...


That would only matter if you're running EVE on a mainframe, though. I'm talking about for practical, personal computer usage. In which case, I could only suggest z/VSE having any kind of practical value whatsoever.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#275 - 2013-01-08 19:13:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Sarah Schneider wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
Stuff


As someone who uses a tablet regularly, I can say that at the moment gaming on a tablet is no substitute for gaming on a PC, although that might change in the future. A touch interface is fine for most day to day use but for gaming, IMHO, it sucks.

Eve runs fine in most OS's & on most modern PC platforms, OS X is still supported, Wine allows you to play it on Linux with minimal setup.

Personally I'd say CCP is ahead of the curve when it comes to multiple OS support, most major developers treat OS X and Linux as the antichrist and only support windows. It would be nice to see a native Linux client again though.


http://houseofd.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/linux_vs_pc_mac.jpg Big smile


Linux, the underdog. Still better than any other OS out there IMO.

Being "better" has nothing to do with it.

Not going to start an OS debate, that's been done a million times already and no one ever wins. The point being, from business and development standpoint it's always more practical to design a software or a game, especially an MMO, heavily towards the most common platform used by the market base.

Are Linux or any Unix based systems better than windows in this case? no, definitely not. Why? because no matter how you try to spin it, Linux, is not for everyone. Unless there's a single corp or distro that rises above all else in terms of packaging, distribution, support and simplicity and on par with Windows on those areas, it just won't happen; and seeing Linux is an open source platform, well, it makes it even more unlikely.

Being "better" aren't always enough, people use Windows because quite simply, everyone's using it. People aren't going to switch to a different OS just because the next version of Windows is an utter crap, they'll just stick to their old one just because they're used to it (and no, your case doesn't represent the consumer base, statistics does). It's an OS, not a gadget. heck, even people who uses XP (current least used version of Windows today) are five times more common than every single Linux users from every single distros combined, even after ten years.

In short, your arguments is only this, nothing more.


I really wish people would read the part where I write "IMO". Why am I required to make an argument for an *opinion* (cuz that's the key word here) based on preference? Go use whatever OS you want, I'm not judging you for it. IMO, which means "In My Opinion", Linux is the best. I've presented reasons why I prefer it, but it seems some people are mistaking this for an argument. I don't really care, though.

btw, the only reason windows is more popular is because that's what PC and laptop packages come with as stock standard. But I can't think of one person that has used any version of Windows (except maybe 7) and doesn't have something to complain about. I say except 7 because I personally haven't had anything to complain about with it. While I have a preference for Linux, that doesn't mean I don't use windows. In fact, windows 7 is the first windows OS that I can say I actually like, and don't feel "obliged" to use. So, I dual boot, and it turns out that dual booting win7 and linux mint 13 xfce is really handy, and they compliment each other quite nicely. Plus, I can access the drive partitions for either OS from either OS, which allows me to transfer files without having to set up a FAT32 sharing partition.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#276 - 2013-01-08 19:17:00 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I really wish people would read the part where I write "IMO". Why am I required to make an argument for an *opinion* (cuz that's the key word here) based on preference? Go use whatever OS you want, I'm not judging you for it. IMO, which means "In My Opinion", Linux is the best. I've presented reasons why I prefer it, but it seems some people are mistaking this for an argument. I don't really care, though.

I wasn't even addressing your OS of choice much less criticizing it nor did I disregard the fact that it was your opinion. You're missing the point.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#277 - 2013-01-08 19:20:00 UTC
Sarah Schneider wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I really wish people would read the part where I write "IMO". Why am I required to make an argument for an *opinion* (cuz that's the key word here) based on preference? Go use whatever OS you want, I'm not judging you for it. IMO, which means "In My Opinion", Linux is the best. I've presented reasons why I prefer it, but it seems some people are mistaking this for an argument. I don't really care, though.

I wasn't even addressing your OS of choice much less criticizing it nor did I disregard the fact that it was your opinion. You're missing the point.


I apologise, I did a little, and I expanded on my above comment for clarity.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#278 - 2013-01-08 19:20:56 UTC
Sarah Schneider wrote:
people use Windows because quite simply, everyone's using it.

This is the oldest and biggest lie in the OS wars.

People don't give it that much thought, they buy a device and use whatever OS came on the device.
They run Windows because you have to go out of your way to buy a desktop system with anything else.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#279 - 2013-01-08 19:23:55 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Sarah Schneider wrote:
people use Windows because quite simply, everyone's using it.

This is the oldest and biggest lie in the OS wars.

People don't give it that much thought, they buy a device and use whatever OS came on the device.
They run Windows because you have to go out of your way to buy a desktop system with anything else.


This, a thousand times this. "People use it because everyone does" is kinda half-truth, though, but the reason everyone does is because that's what computers come packaged with. WAY back in the day of Altair, and the first Macs, you didn't get an OS, you had to write your own. That's why Bill Gates is a rich ****, thanks to BASIC and DOS, which he created for IBM.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#280 - 2013-01-08 19:38:31 UTC
There's also:

People use it, because they're used to it and don't like change (or rebuying all their software)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter