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When will the GM team be producing their response to the Miner Bumping Discussion Thread?

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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#161 - 2013-01-08 09:21:21 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:


But it probably means that it shouldn't be done. Which is the point I was making.

When each new change issued in an attempt to "fix" a "problem" spawns two new ones or requires increasingly bizarre justifications, you might consider looking at the "problem" and see if it's worth "fixing," or even if it's actually a problem in the first place.

In the case of bumping, it is very much working as intended. As for miners, just remember, industrialized ganking was much easier to counter than bumping (tanking their ship was all that was required), and it was entirely their complaints that spelled the end of industrialized ganking and the rise of bumping.



So... let's put aside "who's accusing who of what" for a moment and stick to the actual points. I kinda thought that "it shouldn't be done" was implied with "it would be a lot of work and create more bugs/glitches/problems for the game that are inherent with more complex code". Maybe I could have communicated this point better, but I think you are missing the part where I am agreeing with you 100%. There is no need for a collision damage system, nor is there a practical way to implement one.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Lexmana
#162 - 2013-01-08 09:54:12 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

E=MC^2

deal with it.


Haha. /thread.
Mhax Arthie
Doomheim
#163 - 2013-01-08 10:03:31 UTC
Not sure why people talk about bumping since this business turned into a massive goongamstyle gankfest and more than that, now they ewok many corporations force them to disband or completely change their playstyle.

I was a big fan of James when he started his small business last summer as it was so hilarious seeing him bumping miners and make a decent living from it. But in the end, it turned into a massive bloodbath bringing hate and violence to the extreme. Now is all about "pay or you will be ganked/pay and you will be still ganked". I don't have much sympathy toward miners, but forcing people to play-live according to your personal rules is not something we should just let go that easy. As it is now, nobody can stop this gankbang, no matter what... they use legit game mechanics and that's why they are unstoppable. If CCP will not step in, this will get very ugly.
Fix Lag
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#164 - 2013-01-08 10:29:03 UTC
Mhax Arthie wrote:
If CCP will not step in, this will get very ugly.


I think it's beautiful.

CCP mostly sucks at their job, but Veritas is a pretty cool dude.
Singular Snowflake
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2013-01-08 11:08:03 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
To reiterate on what people have said, this is still being discussed given the fact its a seen as a "widespread issue" by a lot of people.

How many is "a lot of people" in this context? The 7 regular highsec whiners and their alts in GD? The ones trying to organize mass petitioning of completely legal gameplay in order to overwhelm the GMs and force yet another change in their favor?
Mhax Arthie
Doomheim
#166 - 2013-01-08 11:08:17 UTC
Fix Lag wrote:
Mhax Arthie wrote:
If CCP will not step in, this will get very ugly.


I think it's beautiful.

Might be, very possible that Fanfest could turn into a major gankfest.] They should invite Slipknot for the ambient background Lol
Mutant Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#167 - 2013-01-08 11:13:41 UTC
Tarsas Phage wrote:
Tali Ambraelle wrote:

This shows that you are nothing but biased and have no real credible opinion. This doesn't work with ice mining, which is what they target. You would never be able to complete a cycle. Problem not solved. Roll Typical belligerent undesirable thinking...


Then orbit the ice you're mining from. For a bumper, a moving ship is far less of a target than a stationary one. Do you completely lack any imagination? Christ, you lot really are the mindless F1 punchers of highsec.

Drones on auto-aggro for rats [X] CHECK
Roid in range of laz0rz [X] CHECK
Punch F1...F3 [X] CHECK
Drool all over yourself while ore hold fills [X] CHECK and CHECK

Extra Credit: Maybe plead in local to mooch off someone's Orca boosts.


Couldn't have said it better myself. So many absolutely brain dead highsec carebears in this thread that it's sickening.
Anndy
The Evocati
#168 - 2013-01-08 11:14:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Anndy
Mhax Arthie wrote:
Fix Lag wrote:
Mhax Arthie wrote:
If CCP will not step in, this will get very ugly.


I think it's beautiful.

Might be, very possible that Fanfest could turn into a major gankfest.] They should invite Slipknot for the ambient background Lol


never happen, its easy to play tough in a digital world without consequence but the real world is another thing where actions actually matter
Lin Suizei
#169 - 2013-01-08 11:22:17 UTC
Anndy wrote:
never happen, its easy to play tough in a digital world without consequence but the real world is another thing where actions actually matter


I really think there should really be a new miner bingo square for this argument.

EVE is real. Because you know, I was there.

Lol I can't delete my forum sig.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#170 - 2013-01-08 11:24:31 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Solstice Project wrote:
It's sad to see the non-carebears letting themselves always get dragged into discussions
with the carebears. You non-carebears act as if it was a necessity to talk to them,
ignoring that it makes you just as weak as them.

The non-carebears don't have any way to force anything onto us. They are weaklings.
The only reason they succeed is because *you let them* !

Well all know the right way to deal with bigmouths, so why do you keep talking pointless discussions
which have *no* end, because they'll never understand anyway ? They are like the kid that keeps running
a bigmouth and when you slap them, he starts to cry and runs to his mother.

This whole discussion is *pointless*. It's as pointless as any other discussion with them ever was and will be.
But every time one of these discussions start, it plays right into their hands. From one nerf to the next nerf.

You keep talking and let CCP decide things for you. That's what they want and that's what they'll achieve,
because you don't actually do anything against them ... no ... you just keep talking. From one nerf to the next nerf.


I feel sad for New Eden.


o/


We didnt speak out against the people whining about having their untanked mining shipsblown up. CCP believed their lies and made a horrible balance pass on barges. We will not make that mistake again.
Pewty McPew
EVE Corporation 2357451
#171 - 2013-01-08 11:37:32 UTC
Mhax Arthie wrote:
Might be, very possible that Fanfest could turn into a major gankfest.] They should invite Slipknot for the ambient background Lol


Alcohol and RL ganking hmmm, I see no good coming of that. Fanfest would be more like Brawlfest.

If they held Fanfest here in Detroit and someone tried to gank you, the simple response here would be just to shoot back, problem solved.
Detroit where the weak are killed and eaten.
John E Normus
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#172 - 2013-01-08 11:50:03 UTC
All I can say is, James 315 is a genius and we're all dancing to the sound of his fiddle.

Idea

Between Ignorance and Wisdom
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#173 - 2013-01-08 11:56:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
We didnt speak out against the people whining about having their untanked mining shipsblown up. CCP believed their lies and made a horrible balance pass on barges. We will not make that mistake again.

That wasn't what i meant. It's good to speak out *against* the weak,
but it's bad to let oneself get lured into pointless discussions *with* the weak.

I am *all* on your - anybodies - side, as long as you stick to the natural laws of evolution.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#174 - 2013-01-08 12:02:40 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:

That wasn't what i meant. It's good to speak out *against* the weak,
but it's bad to let oneself get lured into pointless discussions *with* the weak.

I am *all* on your - anybodies - side, as long as you stick to the natural laws of evolution.


Fear not forum poster for we are also posting up numbers, real facts and are willing to deploy graphs to make these numbers even easyer to read.
Aracimia Wolfe
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#175 - 2013-01-08 12:14:45 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
Yeah, because every freighter pilot is AFKer right? Roll

While miner CAN avoid bumping just by simply NOT be AFK, freighter pilot cannot. Im talking about LOL bumping near the gates which is pure grief. And thats why DEVs considers this as an issue.

Also bumping freighter with frigate? IdealogicIdea


http://www.physicstogo.org/images/features/supertanker-large-7-26-07.jpg

Small Ship + Oversized Engine muscles around Giant Ship + Weak engine. Looks like it's working just fine.

Just like a Frigate (or more likely a cruiser) bumping a Freighter around. KE=.5MV^2. In other words, a 10mn AB Dramiel (mass 5.9m kg, speed 5800m/s) has 190 trillion Joules of Kinetic energy, while a Charon (mass 960m kg, speed 94m/s) has only 10 trillion Joules of Kinetic energy. (The Dram also carries 2.5 times the momentum of the Charon.)

A bog standard 1mn MWD Dramiel (1.5 million kg, 6100m/s) still has over 40 trillion Joules of Kinetic energy to the Freighters 10 trillion.

Why are you surprised that a ship with more energy and momentum than your freighter is able to knock your frieghter around?


I just always wonder where all the extra mass given by the MWD comes from.


E=MC^2

More speed = more mass

deal with it.


Which always made me wonder how the mass was then taken care of while in warp, I can only assume some kind of partial or full neutralisation of inertia thereby making the mass a non issue for your acceleration potential. Or something. I need to lay off the EE Doc smith books and read eve lore I guess.

Kill it with Fire!

Mhax Arthie
Doomheim
#176 - 2013-01-08 12:59:10 UTC
Pewty McPew wrote:
Mhax Arthie wrote:
Might be, very possible that Fanfest could turn into a major gankfest.] They should invite Slipknot for the ambient background Lol


Alcohol and RL ganking hmmm, I see no good coming of that. Fanfest would be more like Brawlfest.

If they held Fanfest here in Detroit and someone tried to gank you, the simple response here would be just to shoot back, problem solved.
Detroit where the weak are killed and eaten.

Tbh, I still can't believe that CCP tend to let drunk/alcoholic people perform on stage, as it happens on alliance panel where usually most of the participants are totally wasted. I really hope that this year CCP will not encourage people to get drunk, it's the 10th years anniversary and this fanfest should be a moment of joy not an opportunity for some people to vent some major frustrations.

Personally I hope that James will stop the mindless gank and get back to the afk miners bumping, I had the laugh of my life reading and seeing the afk minners floating in space for hours km away from the belts... high quality entertainment! Big smile
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#177 - 2013-01-08 13:14:07 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:

That wasn't what i meant. It's good to speak out *against* the weak,
but it's bad to let oneself get lured into pointless discussions *with* the weak.

I am *all* on your - anybodies - side, as long as you stick to the natural laws of evolution.

Fear not forum poster for we are also posting up numbers, real facts and are willing to deploy graphs to make these numbers even easyer to read.

You're a ~data blobber~

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#178 - 2013-01-08 13:26:48 UTC
Mhax Arthie wrote:
Not sure why people talk about bumping since this business turned into a massive goongamstyle gankfest and more than that, now they ewok many corporations force them to disband or completely change their playstyle.

I was a big fan of James when he started his small business last summer as it was so hilarious seeing him bumping miners and make a decent living from it. But in the end, it turned into a massive bloodbath bringing hate and violence to the extreme. Now is all about "pay or you will be ganked/pay and you will be still ganked". I don't have much sympathy toward miners, but forcing people to play-live according to your personal rules is not something we should just let go that easy. As it is now, nobody can stop this gankbang, no matter what... they use legit game mechanics and that's why they are unstoppable. If CCP will not step in, this will get very ugly.


Sorry, but yes it is. Welcome to EVE Online.
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#179 - 2013-01-08 13:29:46 UTC
Mhax Arthie wrote:
Personally I hope that James will stop the mindless gank and get back to the afk miners bumping, I had the laugh of my life reading and seeing the afk minners floating in space for hours km away from the belts... high quality entertainment! Big smile



It's highly probable that James only began ganking because it's considered a legit tactic in highsec (see Goons On Ice), while *gasp* BUMPING *gasp* is an Ancient Evil and is Officially Under Discussion.

TLDR; ganking them for isk is Working As Intended, bumping them for isk may soon become bannable.

He's just covering his bases. From James POV, ganking miners is expensive, time consuming, and cuts into his profit-margin. But CCP just might change the EULA (and if they do I can't wait until freighter pilots start sending CCP petitions against bumpy pirates/gankers....), so he is making sure he has a gameplay mode to fall back on.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#180 - 2013-01-08 13:39:24 UTC
It'd be a complete bloody joke if CCP "banned" bumping. Miners cried and cried and cried instead of fitting a tank, so CCP caved and made some huge built in tanks... and what did the miners do? Rejoice? No, they found something else to cry about and demand "fixing".

Calling it now: If CCP ban bumping, the miners will immediately find some new thing to cry about because it slows down their potential isk making and botting