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what t1 BS would you accept into your incursion fleet?

Author
Gitanmaxx
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-01-07 19:34:53 UTC
I'm trying to get into running incursions because it seems like a more entertaining way to make isk over missions. Several of you have helped point me to guides which have been massively helpful.

My questions is if you're a fleet commander what T1 BS would you accept into your fleet. I can't afford pirate or navy faction ships until hopefully I get a few incursions under my belt. I am pretty well crosstrained on all races except mini. I'm just trying to decide which large T2 guns to train for (the only one I have currently is pulse lasers)
Karmu Ivanostrov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-01-07 22:12:42 UTC
With T2 Pulses and no Minmatar Battleships I would probably go for Abaddon or Navy Geddon.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-01-07 22:39:13 UTC
Regular geddon with 5 sentries, 4 dmg mods. Don't need med/small drones as other ppl will have them, You're still putting out 1300 dps. Forget Abaddon, it's just tanky, nothing else, one fewer low for that extra hs.
Gitanmaxx
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-01-07 22:41:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Gitanmaxx
I can't afford the navy geddon without spending all my cash unfortunately.

The only problem I see with the geddon over the abaddon is that it has one less mid, and from what I've been reading shield tanks are mandatory for incursions?
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#5 - 2013-01-07 23:12:32 UTC
I must point out the Abby doesn't have an "extra high" as that's disingenuous, it has a full turret rack. There's a big difference.
Karmu Ivanostrov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-01-08 04:24:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Karmu Ivanostrov
Gitanmaxx wrote:
The only problem I see with the geddon over the abaddon is that it has one less mid, and from what I've been reading shield tanks are mandatory for incursions?


Please dont. If you are dead set on going shields I would go Maelstrom, but seeing as you have good laser skills, why dont you give the Armor Incursion fleets a try?

btw Nighmare should solve all your problems, but the price is rather steep for your needs
Gitanmaxx
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-01-08 04:30:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Gitanmaxx
Karmu Ivanostrov wrote:
Gitanmaxx wrote:
The only problem I see with the geddon over the abaddon is that it has one less mid, and from what I've been reading shield tanks are mandatory for incursions?


Please dont. If you are dead set on going shields I would go Maelstrom, but seeing as you have good laser skills, why dont you give the Armor Incursion fleets a try?

btw Nighmare should solve all your problems, but the price is rather steep for your needs


That sounds good, I was just told by someone else that everyone wants shield tanks for incursions. If armor is ok then Amarth bs it is. I'll still work on my rokh though while I'm at it....been meaning on getting t2 rails anyway, lol.

The nightmare is my end goal when isk permits, hoping some incursion runs help me earn it. Thank you.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-01-08 05:19:18 UTC
Gitanmaxx wrote:
Karmu Ivanostrov wrote:
Gitanmaxx wrote:
The only problem I see with the geddon over the abaddon is that it has one less mid, and from what I've been reading shield tanks are mandatory for incursions?


Please dont. If you are dead set on going shields I would go Maelstrom, but seeing as you have good laser skills, why dont you give the Armor Incursion fleets a try?

btw Nighmare should solve all your problems, but the price is rather steep for your needs


That sounds good, I was just told by someone else that everyone wants shield tanks for incursions. If armor is ok then Amarth bs it is. I'll still work on my rokh though while I'm at it....been meaning on getting t2 rails anyway, lol.

The nightmare is my end goal when isk permits, hoping some incursion runs help me earn it. Thank you.


Must be one of these r3tards. "Shield pwns armor!" and vice versa.

Both are viable. Shield do better in hqs where there are more large rats (TEs), armor do better in vgs and assults where there are more small rats (tracking scripted TCs). There are more shield ppl because most carebears are shield. In the early days, shields and BS in general were not considered viable due to sig, and ppl flew armor hacs. But we've gone a long way. Incursions run like clockwork nowdays.

Rokhs don't get in the good fleets, rails still suck, especially without dmg bonus. Mael is the way to go for cheap shield. On the cheap end, armor is the way to go, as cheap laserboats like geddon perform far better in incursions than shield counterparts of similar price.

Either way, prepare to idle for quite a bit before fleets runs out of pimpboats to invite.
Eterna Uitoh
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-01-08 12:03:45 UTC
Nothing wrong with armour in incursions at all. The best armour group imho is The Ditanian Fleet, join their public chat channel
"The Ditanian Fleet" and talk to the people there. They also have mailing lists with fits for various ships so you know how they want ships fitted for their fleets.
BlackPyroStorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-01-08 13:51:28 UTC
Realistically most BS are viable, most fleet would rather not have missile and/or drone boats due to flight/travel times, ofc sentries don't need to move but alot of the time you do.
Gitanmaxx
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-01-08 15:43:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Gitanmaxx
I worked up an abaddon fit then to try to get into an armor run on an incursion. what do you guys think?

mega pulse II x8

tracking computer II x2
cap recharger II x2

1600 plate II
EAN II x2
Energized explosive membrane II
damage control II
heat sink II x2

large energy discharge elutriation x2
large trimark armor pump

scorch:438 dps
multi: 478 dps

EHP: 103.5 k


I went with the abaddon because it's easier to get the resists up and fitting an geddon I had a bad resist hole, an apoc I did less damage.
I know the cap rechargers aren't ideal but without them I get about 7 minutes of cap. If I then replace them with webs my cap goes down to 6 minutes. So I know I use up a lot of slots on keeping my lasers running but I couldn't think of anything else to do. Getting rid of a single discharge rig also instantly drops my cap to 6 minutes.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-01-08 16:37:24 UTC
Gitanmaxx wrote:
I worked up an abaddon fit then to try to get into an armor run on an incursion. what do you guys think?

mega pulse II x8

tracking computer II x2
cap recharger II x2

1600 plate II
EAN II x2
Energized explosive membrane II
damage control II
heat sink II x2

large energy discharge elutriation x2
large trimark armor pump

scorch:438 dps
multi: 478 dps

EHP: 103.5 k


I went with the abaddon because it's easier to get the resists up and fitting an geddon I had a bad resist hole, an apoc I did less damage.
I know the cap rechargers aren't ideal but without them I get about 7 minutes of cap. If I then replace them with webs my cap goes down to 6 minutes. So I know I use up a lot of slots on keeping my lasers running but I couldn't think of anything else to do. Getting rid of a single discharge rig also instantly drops my cap to 6 minutes.


Get rid of cap mods. You will not be shooting continuously outside of mom site. Rat waves die fast, then you lock new rats, etc. There's no local armor rep to consume cap, only guns.

Swap exp membrange for 3rd hs. It's mandatory if you want to get into decent fleets. Swap discharge elutrations for exp/kin rigs.

Abaddon has resist bonus, but one fewer low, it weights out. Also, +25% dmg bonus is just +25% dps, -25% rof bonus is +33% dps. If you're disappointed by Abaddon's dps, don't be.
Gitanmaxx
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2013-01-08 16:51:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Gitanmaxx
sabre906 wrote:
Gitanmaxx wrote:
I worked up an abaddon fit then to try to get into an armor run on an incursion. what do you guys think?

mega pulse II x8

tracking computer II x2
cap recharger II x2

1600 plate II
EAN II x2
Energized explosive membrane II
damage control II
heat sink II x2

large energy discharge elutriation x2
large trimark armor pump

scorch:438 dps
multi: 478 dps

EHP: 103.5 k


I went with the abaddon because it's easier to get the resists up and fitting an geddon I had a bad resist hole, an apoc I did less damage.
I know the cap rechargers aren't ideal but without them I get about 7 minutes of cap. If I then replace them with webs my cap goes down to 6 minutes. So I know I use up a lot of slots on keeping my lasers running but I couldn't think of anything else to do. Getting rid of a single discharge rig also instantly drops my cap to 6 minutes.


Get rid of cap mods. You will not be shooting continuously outside of mom site. Rat waves die fast, then you lock new rats, etc. There's no local armor rep to consume cap, only guns.

Swap exp membrange for 3rd hs. It's mandatory if you want to get into decent fleets. Swap discharge elutrations for exp/kin rigs.

Abaddon has resist bonus, but one fewer low, it weights out. Also, +25% dmg bonus is just +25% dps, -25% rof bonus is +33% dps. If you're disappointed by Abaddon's dps, don't be.



it was the apoc i said that had low damage, this abaddon was much higher, part of why i chose it.

If i remove the dischargers and the cap rechargers I'll be down to only 3 minutes of laser fire before I cap out. But you're right that I am wasting lots of slots on that. So I think i came up with a good solution based on what you said that keeps all my resists above 70%, has 3 heatsinks and doesn't cap out quickly, or when being neuted. does this look better?

I'm questioning the sensor booster vs a web, or maybe something else in that slot. Not quite sure.

mega pulse II x8

tracking computer II x2
sensor booster II (resolution script)
Heavy capacitor Booster II (800)

1600 plate II
EAN II x2
damage control II
heat sink II x3

large anti-explosive pump
large anti-kinetic pump
large trimark armor pump

scorch:492 dps
multi: 537 dps

EHP: 106.3 k

*btw, these numbers do not include my hob II drones.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2013-01-09 11:24:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
I used to run incursion with a small community and generally we accepted all turret T1 BSs. That said, we used shield (settled on that to avoid splitting said community, historical reasons I guess) and even though, as I said, we accepted almost anything, it was easy to see that T1 Amarr BSs are pretty bad for shield fleets. You can fit tank, but then you don't have SeBo, web and the like. You can figure out how bad is that for VGs we used to do. Low-SP players also had capp issues with things like Abaddon (either that, or really bad DPS combined with low tracking of lasers couples with abscence of TCs - pretty bad).

Other races fare pretty well in shield fleets. Caldari has Rokh which is actually fine, Gallente can use Hyperion, Minmatar are fine as well (Phoon isn't probably your choice, others are fine).

In armor fleets Caldari make no sense, others races feel good. Though I have only done one weekend worth of armour incursions, so I don't have much experience.

Oh, and T2 guns weren't a requirement, but they don't hurt.

Note on cap: 6 minutes of cap isn't really much. You'll be fine, but if your FC and fleetmates aren't slowpokes and travel from site to site in timely manner, you will find yourself in bad position after a few sites. Cap booster will fix that ofc, but keep in mind that slot you use for a cap booster is a slot you don't use for additional web.
Gitanmaxx
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-01-09 16:06:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Gitanmaxx
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
I used to run incursion with a small community and generally we accepted all turret T1 BSs. That said, we used shield (settled on that to avoid splitting said community, historical reasons I guess) and even though, as I said, we accepted almost anything, it was easy to see that T1 Amarr BSs are pretty bad for shield fleets. You can fit tank, but then you don't have SeBo, web and the like. You can figure out how bad is that for VGs we used to do. Low-SP players also had capp issues with things like Abaddon (either that, or really bad DPS combined with low tracking of lasers couples with abscence of TCs - pretty bad).

Other races fare pretty well in shield fleets. Caldari has Rokh which is actually fine, Gallente can use Hyperion, Minmatar are fine as well (Phoon isn't probably your choice, others are fine).

In armor fleets Caldari make no sense, others races feel good. Though I have only done one weekend worth of armour incursions, so I don't have much experience.

Oh, and T2 guns weren't a requirement, but they don't hurt.

Note on cap: 6 minutes of cap isn't really much. You'll be fine, but if your FC and fleetmates aren't slowpokes and travel from site to site in timely manner, you will find yourself in bad position after a few sites. Cap booster will fix that ofc, but keep in mind that slot you use for a cap booster is a slot you don't use for additional web.


good info.

so should I trade the sensor booster for a web? My cap skills are maxed out currently except controlled burst is only at 4. Not having a cap use bonus the abaddon still gives me cap problems which the booster solves. I'd like to run without it but prefer not slow anyone down while I recharge.
Karmu Ivanostrov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-01-09 16:08:19 UTC
Good thing about the Geddon too is that you can get and energy transfer on that extra high and help out the logi, or be another Battleship's cap buddy, which in turn gives you more cap. I dont know if it gives you better cap life than the cap injector but it is a lot more flexible since you can help out other ships instead of just injecting yourself, plus no need to carry cap boosters.

Ahh and btw, with Pulses always use T2 or faction ammo.
Gitanmaxx
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2013-01-09 16:13:40 UTC
Karmu Ivanostrov wrote:
Good thing about the Geddon too is that you can get and energy transfer on that extra high and help out the logi, or be another Battleship's cap buddy, which in turn gives you more cap. I dont know if it gives you better cap life than the cap injector but it is a lot more flexible since you can help out other ships instead of just injecting yourself, plus no need to carry cap boosters.

Ahh and btw, with Pulses always use T2 or faction ammo.



I've got scorch and multi. should I switch the multi for faction?

only 100mil left to go before my incursion abaddon is ready. time to hit some missions this weekend.
Karmu Ivanostrov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-01-09 16:23:00 UTC
Yeah the rate at which T2 and faction crystals are consumed is low enough to be viable almost all the time (maybe carry a set of T1 just in case but they will just be gathering dust. You are better off carrying an extra set of T2 and factions).

Plus, you get your dps numbers up.
Marsan
#19 - 2013-01-09 17:07:42 UTC
My advice is carry a cap booster, charges, web, and sensor booster in cargo. After you are in fleet ask if you should fit the cap booster or not. It's not uncommon for you to get a cap buddy or have the logi top you off between sites.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.

Gitanmaxx
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2013-01-09 17:35:37 UTC
Marsan wrote:
My advice is carry a cap booster, charges, web, and sensor booster in cargo. After you are in fleet ask if you should fit the cap booster or not. It's not uncommon for you to get a cap buddy or have the logi top you off between sites.


good idea. I think I'll do that.
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