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Machariel or Bhaalgorn for small gang pvp?
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Tar Omrir
Bregan D'aerthe.
#1 - 2011-10-23 19:45:08 UTC
Which one is a better for small scale pvp? Give a reason why you think one is better than the other!

Tar Omrir, Chairman, Cygnus Industries
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2011-10-23 19:49:41 UTC
Probably Mach due to its speed and being able to keep up with smaller fleets (which are generally made up of T2 cruisers and BCs for decent speed). The Bhaalgorn should be able to do perfectly fine too if you're in the right group, but my money's on the Mach overall.
Tar Omrir
Bregan D'aerthe.
#3 - 2011-10-23 19:53:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tar Omrir
mxzf wrote:
Probably Mach due to its speed and being able to keep up with smaller fleets (which are generally made up of T2 cruisers and BCs for decent speed). The Bhaalgorn should be able to do perfectly fine too if you're in the right group, but my money's on the Mach overall.

Yah but the horn can still go 600m/s while still having nets and webs, and doing the same dps. Then cap stabilitybecomes an issue, but ure never going to ge either ship stable anyway...the Bhaalgorn can fit a huge tank vs the Machs insane speed

Tar Omrir, Chairman, Cygnus Industries
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#4 - 2011-10-23 20:18:02 UTC
Try bringing an armoured up Bhaalgorn to a fast moving shield gang - then you'll see why the mobility is a major bonus.
Depends exactly what sort of gang you're talking about though.
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#5 - 2011-10-23 20:18:29 UTC
Speed is what defines the success of a small gang these days. A bhaalgorn is just asking to get hotdropped by a bunch of bored SC pilots.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2011-10-23 20:20:11 UTC
Tar Omrir wrote:
Yah but the horn can still go 600m/s while still having nets and webs, and doing the same dps. Then cap stabilitybecomes an issue, but ure never going to ge either ship stable anyway...the Bhaalgorn can fit a huge tank vs the Machs insane speed


600m/s is slow as ****. Literally any BC can run you down at that speed and has the EHP to survive making the initial tackle for their gang.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-10-23 20:25:38 UTC
Not to mention it's about the agility as much if not more than straight line speed - and the mach is stupidly agile for a battleship.
Tar Omrir
Bregan D'aerthe.
#8 - 2011-10-23 20:32:33 UTC
Sounds awesome. Fittings anyone?

Tar Omrir, Chairman, Cygnus Industries
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-10-23 21:20:56 UTC
Tar Omrir wrote:
Sounds awesome. Fittings anyone?


AC's, shield tank, damage mods + TE.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Songbird
#10 - 2011-10-23 21:57:44 UTC
+ neut, ecm + combat drones, speed or shield rigs, dc2
uredo
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2011-10-23 21:59:21 UTC
Something like this:

[Machariel]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Large Shield Extender II
Gist B-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Heavy Capacitor Booster II,Cap Booster 800
Invulnerability Field II

800mm Repeating Artillery II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II,Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II

Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x10
Arthello
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-10-24 14:27:42 UTC
I'd choose a Bhaal if it was low-sec fighting. Fights in low-sec is usually on top of gates and there's a slightly less chance to get blobbed to death.

For 0.0 I'd choose a Mach every time. In a Mach you have a good chance to escape even if you get blobbed. It aligns like a bc and it's extremely fast. It's also an excellent kiter against a superior force.

In the end of the day it all depends on how your FC likes to play it obviously. If he likes to go balls-deep you're better off with a Bhaal. If he's more a skirmish careful kind of guy nothing beats a Mach. Well nothing except for maybe a 100mn AB Tengu.
Sphit Ker
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2011-10-24 16:41:40 UTC
Bhaalgorn is the ultimate heavy tackle.
Machariel is the ultimate everything else (you know it's true)

That's what Arthello said.

In my own words, if you are all about skirmish tactics, get in, **** face and get out, Mach is king of the hill.
If you are the guy who warps in and take it in like a man, Bhaalgorn will get you plenty of action.

Machariel dies when it's scrammed and webbed by a small fleet. In the same situation, Bhaalgorn is exactly where it want to be. Major neuting power will make it hard to keep tackled while spiffy webbing range will ensure excellent applied DPS almost all the time. Mach will be burning away at full steam while killing tackle and laughing all the way... that kind of deal.

Bhaal is "balls deep into battle".
Mach is "lol try and catch me".

It knows what you think.
tofucake prime
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#14 - 2011-10-24 17:53:11 UTC
Tar Omrir wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Probably Mach due to its speed and being able to keep up with smaller fleets (which are generally made up of T2 cruisers and BCs for decent speed). The Bhaalgorn should be able to do perfectly fine too if you're in the right group, but my money's on the Mach overall.

Yah but the horn can still go 600m/s while still having nets and webs, and doing the same dps. Then cap stabilitybecomes an issue, but ure never going to ge either ship stable anyway...the Bhaalgorn can fit a huge tank vs the Machs insane speed

You say 600m/s like it's a big number, but a Mach will go 2215m/s with half the sig of a Drake. It also runs for just as long cap wise and you can always fit a booster.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#15 - 2011-10-24 20:05:09 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Try bringing an armoured up Bhaalgorn to a fast moving shield gang - then you'll see why the mobility is a major bonus.
Depends exactly what sort of gang you're talking about though.



Well when you can neut bs with a single cycle of neuts I imagine very well the hac not being able to even shoot with 0 cap unless it's minmatar one, web at those distances with pulses not having that much trouble to hit the major problem to see more of them out there is the price tag.

Mach's are just more versatile and powerfull enough in armor/shield ac's arty versions while bhaalgorn very specialised
Tar Omrir
Bregan D'aerthe.
#16 - 2011-10-24 23:30:03 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Try bringing an armoured up Bhaalgorn to a fast moving shield gang - then you'll see why the mobility is a major bonus.
Depends exactly what sort of gang you're talking about though.



Well when you can neut bs with a single cycle of neuts I imagine very well the hac not being able to even shoot with 0 cap unless it's minmatar one, web at those distances with pulses not having that much trouble to hit the major problem to see more of them out there is the price tag.

Mach's are just more versatile and powerfull enough in armor/shield ac's arty versions while bhaalgorn very specialised

Well just take offsoendy suff and got an insane and relatively cheep faction bs. Which one for one vs one?

Tar Omrir, Chairman, Cygnus Industries
Tar Omrir
Bregan D'aerthe.
#17 - 2011-10-25 02:46:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tar Omrir
Double post

Tar Omrir, Chairman, Cygnus Industries
Cloora
APEX Unlimited
APEX Conglomerate
#18 - 2011-10-25 03:57:53 UTC
I fly both with differant characters.

Macharial is OP. I'm sorry but it is. Does rediculous DPS at great ranges because of its massive falloff, it can outgun anything it cant outrun and can outrun anything it can't outgun or outtank. Need more pimpage to really shine while the Bhaal can do with faction stuff Mach needs some deadspace gear.

I use a HG Slave set for my Bhaalgorn.

I still haven't decided if Snakes or Crystals are better for the Mach. Anyone care to chime in on that one?

Legion Booster also helps with the Bhaal for MOAR armor and resists

Tengu booster works better for the Machs tank

Both ships can benefit fomr a Loki Booster with the interdiction link great to extend the webs on the Bhaal and the Speed links good for the Mach.

I use both with either ship I am flying.

Mach just slaps stuff outta the sky like nothing though. It needs a nerf TBH.

http://www.altaholics.blogspot.com
Tar Omrir
Bregan D'aerthe.
#19 - 2011-10-25 11:12:16 UTC
Cloora wrote:
I fly both with differant characters.

Macharial is OP. I'm sorry but it is. Does rediculous DPS at great ranges because of its massive falloff, it can outgun anything it cant outrun and can outrun anything it can't outgun or outtank. Need more pimpage to really shine while the Bhaal can do with faction stuff Mach needs some deadspace gear.

I use a HG Slave set for my Bhaalgorn.

I still haven't decided if Snakes or Crystals are better for the Mach. Anyone care to chime in on that one?

Legion Booster also helps with the Bhaal for MOAR armor and resists

Tengu booster works better for the Machs tank

Both ships can benefit fomr a Loki Booster with the interdiction link great to extend the webs on the Bhaal and the Speed links good for the Mach.

I use both with either ship I am flying.

Mach just slaps stuff outta the sky like nothing though. It needs a nerf TBH.

The mach sounds very powerful. I wold use it with a snake set. Then with a booster u can push2500ms. Ball sounds more my style, warp in and kill everything.

Tar Omrir, Chairman, Cygnus Industries
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#20 - 2011-10-25 11:17:56 UTC
Tar Omrir wrote:
Cloora wrote:
I fly both with differant characters.

Macharial is OP. I'm sorry but it is. Does rediculous DPS at great ranges because of its massive falloff, it can outgun anything it cant outrun and can outrun anything it can't outgun or outtank. Need more pimpage to really shine while the Bhaal can do with faction stuff Mach needs some deadspace gear.

I use a HG Slave set for my Bhaalgorn.

I still haven't decided if Snakes or Crystals are better for the Mach. Anyone care to chime in on that one?

Legion Booster also helps with the Bhaal for MOAR armor and resists

Tengu booster works better for the Machs tank

Both ships can benefit fomr a Loki Booster with the interdiction link great to extend the webs on the Bhaal and the Speed links good for the Mach.

I use both with either ship I am flying.

Mach just slaps stuff outta the sky like nothing though. It needs a nerf TBH.

The mach sounds very powerful. I wold use it with a snake set. Then with a booster u can push2500ms. Ball sounds more my style, warp in and kill everything.


Quoted 4U

Quote:
Well just take offsoendy suff and got an insane and relatively cheep faction bs. Which one for one vs one?